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How Strong (Financially) is the KHL?

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:27 AM
  #51
vorky
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The fact is, the fundamentals aren't there to sustain the league over the long term. It's just like the European Union. The EU is nothing more than a pipe-dream by Euros to build a 'United States of Europe' to rival the USA, but again, the fundamentals are not there (no central bank, no central standing army, un-elected bureaucrats, rampant sectarianism/nationalism, no common culture/bond other than anti-Americanism). The EU can say that they have a larger population, a larger GDP, a larger whatever than the USA, but as we see know, it is all beginning to fall apart because it lacks the fundamentals listed above.
not correct comparison. EU is not govern directly, KHL is.

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12-05-2012, 11:31 AM
  #52
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Stadiums are old, some new, new arenas under contruction
Medical care - KHL has own medical reseach center + players goes to german clinics if needed. So what is the problem?
I think he's referring to local medical facilities/hospitals. No, they may not be the Mayo clinic or John Hopkins, however I'm sure that they're capable of handling most immediate issues that pop up - the Cherapanov situation aside. As long as they've learned a lesson from what happened, and more forward things should be okay. Clearly it's not too much of an issue, as there's a bunch of NHL guys over there playing.

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12-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #53
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Finnish club is seriously in talks with KHL. Not have to be current finnish club.

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12-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #54
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I cannot recall the source, but even Ovie was complaining about the small crowd sizes in Moscow and that Washington was where his "soul" was. It cannot be that great.

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12-05-2012, 03:53 PM
  #55
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KHL is owned by billionaires who can't buy a soccer team in EPL, La Liga, or Serie A. Owning a KHL team or an NHL team is not prestigous for a billionaire outside North America. As soon as they can find a team to purchase they will run.

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12-05-2012, 06:20 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Sweden and Europe is thank god not like NA when it comes to sports. We have traditions here. Stockholm has 2 (3) hockey teams, that town would NEVER EVER (read: it won't happen) unite under 1 team. It just will not happen. And for stockholm to be able to support a team like that, it needs to have the entire city behind it, which it will not have.

And making a new franchise, I would bet that team would have less than 10 fans.
Yes, I recognize that the sports culture is different. But I think star power would sway a lot of people. No doubt there would be a group of die hard fans that wouldn't change their allegiances, but over time a team in a super league would scoop up the majority of new fans, have a better TV deal, and receive the lion's share of sponsorship money.

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12-05-2012, 06:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Yes, I recognize that the sports culture is different. But I think star power would sway a lot of people. No doubt there would be a group of die hard fans that wouldn't change their allegiances, but over time a team in a super league would scoop up the majority of new fans, have a better TV deal, and receive the lion's share of sponsorship money.
Why would a team no one watches get a better TV deal (I realize this comes from the league)? Would KHL/Whatever european league really want to support a team that might fill 10% of its arena?
It would take way too long for a new team to become profitable, we're talking 20 years long, not 1 or 2 years.

I actually don't think a team like that would "sway people away", actually I'm 99% sure the team would be a laughingstock and people would spit on its club sign.

Maybe if that team would start in a city that has had no previous big hockey club, but the only 3 cities which could possibly host something like that, already has teams.

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12-05-2012, 07:12 PM
  #58
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for me the KHL grew too quickly and there is a huge difference in how many clubs are run

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12-05-2012, 07:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Finnish club is seriously in talks with KHL. Not have to be current finnish club.
There was also a Swedish club I believe AIK who were rumoured to be joining.

I don't think they need stability to be successful. Looking at the history of the NHL through the O6 era and expansion, the league was poorly run and there were rich/poor teams back then as well. There were still wage issues but there was enough money and interest to grow it to a point of stability.

Now European football leagues in some countries often have the same level of stability. In fact famous Scottish club Rangers recently went bankrupt. These teams still keep playing though. So I expect the KHL to continue as it is. I dunno if it'll ever grow to what the NHL was even in the late 80s but it'll keep going even if other fans don't like it (I personally don't mind at all though I don't like their style of hockey or the fact that quality players are often lost to the KHL but that's the fault of the NHL for having a salary cap or not paying them enough and having too much of a grind game). If one rich owner quits, someone else will take over. THe league isn't gonna fold because a couple franchises fold. So not every club in the KHL is viable but the league as a whole is here to stay.

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12-05-2012, 07:19 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Why would a team no one watches get a better TV deal (I realize this comes from the league)? Would KHL/Whatever european league really want to support a team that might fill 10% of its arena?
It would take way too long for a new team to become profitable, we're talking 20 years long, not 1 or 2 years.

I actually don't think a team like that would "sway people away", actually I'm 99% sure the team would be a laughingstock and people would spit on its club sign.

Maybe if that team would start in a city that has had no previous big hockey club, but the only 3 cities which could possibly host something like that, already has teams.
They'd get a better TV deal because their audience would be greater. People are going to tune in to watch big games between star players. You would too.

Profitable? It all depends on costs. I'm not saying that a league could open its doors and immediately compete for top level players with the NHL. But the underlying fundamentals are strong enough that it could after it has built up its audience and its brand.

You undoubtedly know Swedish culture better than I do. But methinks your opinion is rather biased because of your support for your local club.

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
They'd get a better TV deal because their audience would be greater. People are going to tune in to watch big games between star players. You would too.

Profitable? It all depends on costs. I'm not saying that a league could open its doors and immediately compete for top level players with the NHL. But the underlying fundamentals are strong enough that it could after it has built up its audience and its brand.

You undoubtedly know Swedish culture better than I do. But methinks your opinion is rather biased because of your support for your local club.
Maybe you should google around the stockholm clubs.

By the way, I don't live in stockholm, my local club (the club of the 3rd biggest city in sweden) doesn't even play in the highest division.

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12-05-2012, 07:55 PM
  #62
Ernie
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Maybe you should google around the stockholm clubs.

By the way, I don't live in stockholm, my local club (the club of the 3rd biggest city in sweden) doesn't even play in the highest division.
That's just the thing; the new "super league" club in Stockholm wouldn't even be competing with the existing clubs. They'd be an addition playing in another, higher level league.. Fans could make up their own minds whether they'd cheer for them or not.

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:56 AM
  #63
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@Jonimaus

KHL as league is holder tv rights of all clubs. No club sells tv rights, all deals are made by league. It is not like in NHL. Btw, some swedish broadcaster will broadcast KHL sooner than later.

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12-06-2012, 09:40 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post

I have a hard time seeing a trans-european league also. Swedish fans like to see Swedish teams play other Swedish teams.
I'd go one step further. Swedish fans want to see Swedish players.

Think about the NHL where Montreal is consistently under the microscope for its use of french players. How would that play out across Europe? Every country would be like a Quebec where they would want its national heroes on their team.

You see some of that in the NHL with Toronto, Montreal and Edmonton/Calgary wanting local kids, in general talent gets spread out. How will it work in Europe when the Sedins get drafted by a Swiss team? How could an Alfreddson possibly get traded from a Sweden?

How can a German team compete for players with a Swedish team where the Swedes all want to play at home?

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12-06-2012, 10:06 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
That's just the thing; the new "super league" club in Stockholm wouldn't even be competing with the existing clubs. They'd be an addition playing in another, higher level league.. Fans could make up their own minds whether they'd cheer for them or not.
Guaranteed to fail.

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12-06-2012, 10:32 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
@Jonimaus

KHL as league is holder tv rights of all clubs. No club sells tv rights, all deals are made by league. It is not like in NHL. Btw, some swedish broadcaster will broadcast KHL sooner than later.
The channel that broadcasts NHL also broadcasts KHL.

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12-06-2012, 02:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
discuss
The books aren't exactly public record, but from what I gather the KHL is run similar to the soccer EPL. A bunch of billionaires who are using the teams as their playthings more than a business venture. Profit doesn't matter, just winning.

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12-06-2012, 10:09 PM
  #68
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I think when new stadiums are built, and most likely massive as all hell, with tickets being a fraction of the price.

The KHL will become a competent 2nd rate league. Basically MLS to European soccer, maybe better.



A place where NHL starts 30+ will go.

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12-07-2012, 02:36 AM
  #69
Ernie
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MLS isn't a competent 2nd rate league. It's not even a competent 3rd rate league.

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12-07-2012, 05:02 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
KHL is owned by billionaires who can't buy a soccer team in EPL, La Liga, or Serie A.
No it's not that simple. KHL teams mostly owned not by billionaires but by large companies for having support from regional governments.
It's almost impossible for a big company in Russia to have business in a region and not to sponsor a local sport team (hockey, football, voleyball or something).
When a team looses its main sponsor it usually runs to a governor who finds ("in compulsory voluntary way" ) a new main sponsor for the team among big companies in the region.
In fact, it's a rather stable system. Not that "KHL teams live only because of billionaires' will".

Let's take 2 first and 2 last teams from West and East divisions of the KHL:
- Dynamo Moscow - owner billionaire Arkadiy Rotenberg (uh, it's an exception though Rotenberg is not the only sponsor of DM, they have plenty of other sponsors including Lukoil: http://www.dynamo.ru/club/partners/)
- Locomotiv Yaroslavl - owner and main sponsor is RZhD Russian Railways (do you really think Russian Railways will ever disappear or stop sponsoring Lokomotiv?)
- Spartak Moscow - Investbank (middle sized bank)
- Dinamo Riga - owner Itera Latvija (note: Dinamo Riga is the most "profitable" team of the KHL)
- AkBars Kazan - Tatneft (one of the largest Russia's oil companies)
- Avangard Omsk - Gazprom Neft (one of the largest Russia's oil companies)
- Amur Khabarovsk - Amurmetall (a big company mining gold and platinum in Khabarovsk region)
- Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg - regional government (and that's why Avto is the worst team in the KHL - the regional government is very far from hockey, gives them some money (yet) but not zealous enough to find a good sponsor)

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12-07-2012, 05:10 AM
  #71
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- Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg - regional government (and that's why Avto is the worst team in the KHL - the regional government is very far from hockey, gives them some money (yet) but not zealous enough to find a good sponsor)
Was not there talks about Gazprombank? Gazpromneft?

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12-07-2012, 10:31 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by WingsFan95 View Post
The KHL will become a competent 2nd rate league. Basically MLS to European soccer, maybe better.
lol.... MLS wishes it was second rate to European soccer. Try second rate to the Mexican league.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:57 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
They'd get a better TV deal because their audience would be greater. People are going to tune in to watch big games between star players. You would too.

Profitable? It all depends on costs. I'm not saying that a league could open its doors and immediately compete for top level players with the NHL. But the underlying fundamentals are strong enough that it could after it has built up its audience and its brand.

You undoubtedly know Swedish culture better than I do. But methinks your opinion is rather biased because of your support for your local club.
No one even wants to watch the NHL on TV let alone the KHL.

Good luck getting these better deals.

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Old
12-07-2012, 03:47 PM
  #74
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No it's not that simple. KHL teams mostly owned not by billionaires but by large companies for having support from regional governments.
It's almost impossible for a big company in Russia to have business in a region and not to sponsor a local sport team (hockey, football, voleyball or something).
When a team looses its main sponsor it usually runs to a governor who finds ("in compulsory voluntary way" ) a new main sponsor for the team among big companies in the region.
In fact, it's a rather stable system. Not that "KHL teams live only because of billionaires' will".

Let's take 2 first and 2 last teams from West and East divisions of the KHL:
- Dynamo Moscow - owner billionaire Arkadiy Rotenberg (uh, it's an exception though Rotenberg is not the only sponsor of DM, they have plenty of other sponsors including Lukoil: http://www.dynamo.ru/club/partners/)
- Locomotiv Yaroslavl - owner and main sponsor is RZhD Russian Railways (do you really think Russian Railways will ever disappear or stop sponsoring Lokomotiv?)
- Spartak Moscow - Investbank (middle sized bank)
- Dinamo Riga - owner Itera Latvija (note: Dinamo Riga is the most "profitable" team of the KHL)
- AkBars Kazan - Tatneft (one of the largest Russia's oil companies)
- Avangard Omsk - Gazprom Neft (one of the largest Russia's oil companies)
- Amur Khabarovsk - Amurmetall (a big company mining gold and platinum in Khabarovsk region)
- Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg - regional government (and that's why Avto is the worst team in the KHL - the regional government is very far from hockey, gives them some money (yet) but not zealous enough to find a good sponsor)
Do you happen to know who owns Dinamo Minsk? Is it state-owned?

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Old
12-07-2012, 03:52 PM
  #75
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Do you happen to know who owns Dinamo Minsk? Is it state-owned?
Dinamo Sports Club I think

https://www.google.ca/search?q=BFSO+...-a&channel=rcs

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