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Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:36 PM
  #26
Dayjobdave
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I think the new league that replaces this one may be run more effectively.

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12-07-2012, 02:12 PM
  #27
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I kind of want to see the NHL completely implode as a result of all this hubris. The calculation here is that the revenue stream will just keep flowing when they've decided that it's time to start up the league again. Well, good luck to them, and I hope there's some kind of rude awakening when they realize people don't care anymore.

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12-07-2012, 02:27 PM
  #28
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I have a good idea.......If the owners don't want players to sign over 5 years then don't ******* sign the players for over 5 years.

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12-07-2012, 02:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I kind of want to see the NHL completely implode as a result of all this hubris. The calculation here is that the revenue stream will just keep flowing when they've decided that it's time to start up the league again. Well, good luck to them, and I hope there's some kind of rude awakening when they realize people don't care anymore.
Yep, its really getting more and more pointless as this thing goes on.

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12-07-2012, 02:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by conway902 View Post
I have a good idea.......If the owners don't want players to sign over 5 years then don't ******* sign the players for over 5 years.
And if you're a fan of a team whose owner doesn't believe in deals over 5 years i'm sure you would support the team not resigning there star player if he demanded a deal over 5 years . Am i correct in assuming this ?

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12-07-2012, 02:39 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
I think they should just go back and do nothing. Cancel the season because a 40-50 game is just ridiculous.
Agreed. Do not want.

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12-07-2012, 02:41 PM
  #32
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Agreed 100%. Bettman is trying to grow the game's popularity throughout North America, and even in Europe, but I think he's not going about it the right way. I don't know what the right way would be, but it's not by moving teams into the middle of the desert, where noone cares about the game.
I'm forever amazed how they seem to ignore the most important thing: quality. If you have a good product, it should sell itself. It's been close to 20 years since they've had a good (read entertaining) product.

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12-07-2012, 02:42 PM
  #33
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I have a good idea.......If the owners don't want players to sign over 5 years then don't ******* sign the players for over 5 years.
Without an agreement in the cba that would be called collusion

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12-07-2012, 02:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Agreed. Do not want.
Me too... The attitude of both sides is and has been pathetic the entire lockout, any deal they're reaching now is just patchwork so they can get some sort of season in. Cancel the whole damn thing and take the next 5 months to hammer out a deal that WON'T RESULT IN ANOTHER LOCKOUT IN 5-7 years

I'm so angry at both sides, I don't care about this season and rather would have it all fixed for next year

Helps that the Leafs are in a good position to get another high pick in the draft too, not too mention some expiring deadweight contracts

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12-07-2012, 02:48 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Agreed 100%. Bettman is trying to grow the game's popularity throughout North America, and even in Europe, but I think he's not going about it the right way. I don't know what the right way would be, but it's not by moving teams into the middle of the desert, where noone cares about the game.

It increases parity across the league, where small market teams don't have to contend against retarded cap circumventing retirement deals in order to obtain/retain elite talent. Look no further than the Weber offersheet match.
Look no further than the NYI offering Rick Dipietro a 15 year deal the set this ball in motion.. Now the NYIs are crying foul on long contracts and can't compete in a hard cap system, with the owner wanting to relocate his team to Brocklyn, NY.

Now we have a lockout to protect bad Owners from themselves and their own foolishness, while the owners blame the players for the way they run their businesses.

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12-07-2012, 02:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Look no further than the NYI offering Rick Dipietro a 15 year deal the set this ball in motion.. Now the NYIs are crying foul on long contracts and can't compete in a hard cap system, with the owner wanting to relocate his team to Brocklyn, NY.

Now we have a lockout to protect bad Owners from themselves and their own foolishness, while the owners blame the players for the way they run their businesses.
Isn't it ironic that the first long term deal like this is the one that has blown up in the owner's face the biggest?

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12-07-2012, 03:07 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
You guys can go on with Bettman all you like but in this case watching Fehr's antics is spectacular to say the least. Watching players show up to meetings in their suits and ball caps and toques made my day.
Fehr is a much better poker player because every time he bluffs, Bettman folds and packs up shop, and each time he returns to the table the CBA gets better and better (by surrendering less) for the PA, whom Fehr is employed by..

The Billionaire Owners that broker large corporate deals all the time, thought they could bluff the uneducated players into a bad CBA for them by this mismatch of business savvy, but they also held fast and in the end the mighty Owners folded up, and left the table the big losers in this last go round.

The ball caps and toques all just apart of the image of the players representing the regular guy, just like you and I trying to earn a living, and having a union fight for them to prevent unfair labour practices.

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12-07-2012, 03:13 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Without an agreement in the cba that would be called collusion
Burke is likely facing collusion charges if the NHL does not win this point of 5 year contract terms in the CBA, because he has been practicing and preaching that since he arrived in TO.

If smart businessmen which the Owners claim to be, believe there is too much risk for themselves in long-term deals than it doesn't take a CBA legislation to prevent them but rather good business sense to not offer them.

Owners are not forced to offer longer deals even if they're allowed, if they chose not to, based on internal policies and practices.

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12-07-2012, 03:46 PM
  #39
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Just to be clear, Burke has said that he would sign players past 5 years. It's been stated multiples times over the last couple of years.

Some people either are not listening, or listening selectively.

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12-07-2012, 03:48 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayjobdave View Post
I think the new league that replaces this one may be run more effectively.
I certainly hope you are right.

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12-07-2012, 03:54 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Just to be clear, Burke has said that he would sign players past 5 years. It's been stated multiples times over the last couple of years.

Some people either are not listening, or listening selectively.
Let keep Burke out of this , he keeps flip flopping or expanding his stance to try to justify his future moves .

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Old
12-07-2012, 04:01 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke is likely facing collusion charges if the NHL does not win this point of 5 year contract terms in the CBA, because he has been practicing and preaching that since he arrived in TO.

If smart businessmen which the Owners claim to be, believe there is too much risk for themselves in long-term deals than it doesn't take a CBA legislation to prevent them but rather good business sense to not offer them.

Owners are not forced to offer longer deals even if they're allowed, if they chose not to, based on internal policies and practices.
C'mon Mess you know it only takes one contract to change the dynamics of contract negotiations . The owners are in competition against each other and a wining team generates millions in extra revenues . The agents know this and will use it as leverage in any negotiations to get a better and longer deal for thier client .

For example how well do you think Burke letting Kessel walk because he won't go longer than 5 years play out in Toronto ?

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12-07-2012, 04:03 PM
  #43
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Enough with the "Kessel's gonna walk" already.

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12-07-2012, 04:06 PM
  #44
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An opinion piece by Brunt:

Quote:
But here’s an alternate explanation.

What set Bettman off was staring across the bargaining table at his mirror image.

Ask anyone who has had to haggle out a deal with Bettman behind closed doors and they’ll paint a picture of a brilliant, calculating and ruthless negotiator, who seizes every advantage, who when presented with an opportunity goes straight for the kill. He understands his opposition’s weak points, he knows his side’s strengths, and with a cool head and cold eyes he calculates the path to victory. That’s one reason why his employers, the owners, love him, and pay him the big bucks.
Quote:
The players hired Donald Fehr as their union head because he is Bettman’s equal. He is there to guard them against falling prey to their own sentimentality about the game, to protect their interests in a negotiation in which everyone understood that they would be giving back, would be surrendering rights and surrendering money guaranteed in the previous collective agreement.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...ngry_response/

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12-07-2012, 04:06 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post

Enough with the "Kessel's gonna walk" already.
This.

It's clear there is no "gentleman's agreement" amongst GM's these days when it comes to contracts in terms of dollars and length .. This became abundantly clean when Kevin Lowe offersheeted Penner

GM's will do whatever it takes to ice the best teams they can, provided it's approved from their boss

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12-07-2012, 04:16 PM
  #46
4evaBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Look no further than the NYI offering Rick Dipietro a 15 year deal the set this ball in motion.. Now the NYIs are crying foul on long contracts and can't compete in a hard cap system, with the owner wanting to relocate his team to Brocklyn, NY.

Now we have a lockout to protect bad Owners from themselves and their own foolishness, while the owners blame the players for the way they run their businesses.
Once again, you're right. Hypothetically, let's say Snow gets fired when the season starts up. How is it fair to the new GM, or the franchise that because of one idiot's decision, he's saddled with $4.5M wasted cap space for a decade? If a GM wants to mess up his team/cap during his regime, so be it. Don't screw up the team for a generation, though. It's not healthy for the franchise, nor the league.

As Leafs fans, we should be very familiar with inheriting previous regime's mess, and how difficult it can be to recover from. Just imagine if some of those contracts Burke started off with still had a decade left on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Fehr is a much better poker player because every time he bluffs, Bettman folds and packs up shop, and each time he returns to the table the CBA gets better and better (by surrendering less) for the PA, whom Fehr is employed by..

The Billionaire Owners that broker large corporate deals all the time, thought they could bluff the uneducated players into a bad CBA for them by this mismatch of business savvy, but they also held fast and in the end the mighty Owners folded up, and left the table the big losers in this last go round.

The ball caps and toques all just apart of the image of the players representing the regular guy, just like you and I trying to earn a living, and having a union fight for them to prevent unfair labour practices.
Yes, the players are clearly winning.


Last edited by 4evaBlue: 12-07-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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Old
12-07-2012, 04:19 PM
  #47
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i like the idea of 5 yr max contracts
but 7 yr max to re-sign your own players

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12-07-2012, 04:26 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
i like the idea of 5 yr max contracts
but 7 yr max to re-sign your own players
RFA's are limited to 7 year max contracts and UFA's are limited to 5 or something along those lines? Doesn't sound too bad.

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Old
12-07-2012, 04:35 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
It was the key points as a pkg not on an individual basis . They gave an extra 100 mil to get an agrement on 3 issues , length of CBA , contract term limits and complience issues . The rest of the contract was still open for negotiations .
It was a take it or leave it offer and the 100 million was not a 100 million it was 50 million in the pension plan...

The players had already accepted the money portion.....but had not agreed to the other components of the deal....the NHL presented it as always as their final offer, take it or leave it and the PA rather then say no....they tried to come to terms on a New CBA by giving the owners their idea of a deal they could accept and the NHL told them .....no and then took their ball and went home.

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12-07-2012, 04:36 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
C'mon Mess you know it only takes one contract to change the dynamics of contract negotiations . The owners are in competition against each other and a wining team generates millions in extra revenues . The agents know this and will use it as leverage in any negotiations to get a better and longer deal for thier client.?
I couldn't find a tongue in cheek smilie, for my previous post.

I've always believed the Owners need a CBA to protect themselves from themselves because otherwise they lack self control and will no doubt get played by smart player agents.

It has to be idiot owner proof because otherwise you know what will happen.

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