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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Who here would like to see the NHL completely dissolve?

View Poll Results: Would you like to see the NHL crumble and see a new league created?
Yes 210 29.41%
No 504 70.59%
Voters: 714. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-01-2012, 10:48 PM
  #201
moosehead81
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This. The NHL doesn't make the teams...the teams make the NHL. If the league were to dissolve, there'd be another league that popped up in a heartbeat taht would follow similar structure as the NHL.
Absolutely- the Canadiens, the Leafs, the Flyers, Rangers, Bruins, etc. would arise out of the ashes of the current structure, likely within a year. The 30 current teams in the NHL can be separated into 3 divisions; those you root for, those you cheer against and those you give a **** about. I personally could never get into following 10-15 teams, all in the US, newer franchises (relatively speaking) and those located south of Washington and west of Columbus, including Columbus, but not including Chicago and LA.

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12-01-2012, 11:14 PM
  #202
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This has pretty much become a "Should the NHL consist of Canadian and Original 6 teams only?" thread.

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12-01-2012, 11:51 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Actually - you're the one with the problems understanding here. The Habs were formed before the NHL - they can exist afterwards. So can most of the teams.

I root for the Habs - not the frigging nhl. The owners had better get off of their arse and solve this soon, or their only profitable teams are going bye-bye.
Furthermore, It's my view that the teams should be more important than the league and should have greater independance. I hate the concept of franchise like "the league has franchises", it should be teams on their own, building their own brand and then those different teams banding together to play one another in a "league" and in a tournament(the playoffs). But the league should not the end-all, be-all of how things are decided.

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12-07-2012, 07:39 AM
  #204
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The NHL drove another nail into their own coffin yesterday. The players will survive short term, but the league will survive a quick death if no hockey this year.

I expect a new league to be mostly in place before next season. All the teams in the current NHL are welcome - if they have a fanbase that can support them!

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12-07-2012, 08:35 AM
  #205
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I'd like to see the players union dissolve. Not saying that I don't want a union to exist, but this one has gotten too big for its britches.

So, on that note, if this Season can't be saved. I'd hope that there would be some way that the League could start employing other players or any current players who want to be part of the League and abandon their old union. And that the next Season will start on time, **** the excessive expectations of this union.

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12-07-2012, 08:37 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
I'd like to see the players union dissolve. Not saying that I don't want a union to exist, but this one has gotten too big for its britches.

So, on that note, if this Season can't be saved. I'd hope that there would be some way that the League could start employing other players or any current players who want to be part of the League and abandon their old union. And that the next Season will start on time, **** the excessive expectations of this union.
Once a union decertifies the players can't have another union for a year. That would be interesting.

They can't have a revolving door today we're union tomorrow we're not.

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12-07-2012, 09:11 AM
  #207
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As long as Buffalo has a team, I don't care if it's in the NHL or some newly created league.

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12-07-2012, 10:54 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
The NHL drove another nail into their own coffin yesterday. The players will survive short term, but the league will survive a quick death if no hockey this year.

I expect a new league to be mostly in place before next season. All the teams in the current NHL are welcome - if they have a fanbase that can support them!
This doesn't make any sense - the NHL will disband, then immediately reform with the same owners (minus Phoenix, plus Quebec)? How is that going to help? Do players stay with their teams or is everyone a UFA? All contracts voided? Is there a draft anymore? What happens to the Stanley Cup? Are we to assume the sponsors will just immediately sign on with this new league? What about TV deals?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not the kind of thing that will just "pop up" in 8 months and hit the ground running.

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12-07-2012, 11:17 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
As long as Buffalo has a team, I don't care if it's in the NHL or some newly created league.
Agreed. And to expand further, I don't care who is playing for Buffalo. I will watch them no matter which players they employ, be it replacements or the current ones.

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12-07-2012, 11:30 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Just because of your anger and frustration that you want to destroy the strong momentum NHL has built? Hockey won't even be considered a "niche" sport in the States if the NHL dissolves.

Think it over.
Explain why I should care about hockey in America because I can't think of a single reason why I should. I'm not a share holder/owner, not a player, my kid won't play pro hockey. Hockey could fall off the map in the US and it won't effect my life in the slightest.

Think it about it.

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12-07-2012, 03:21 PM
  #211
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The End of the NHL (?)

With this current stalemate and potential losses, could this lead to the end of the NHL (or at least the NHL as we know it)? Let's say that this labour dispute is never resolved, so the alternative is for the owners to suspend the NHL and start a new league (NHL II, NHA II, MLH, etc). It may sound perposterous, but the NHL started because of disputes between the National Hockey Association owners and Toronto Blueshirts owner Eddie Livingston - team names and awards were transfered to the new league.

The question is could history repeat itself and it happens again? If so, what would the business implimentations be? If not all of the 30 teams were a part of the new league, what would be the recourse or exit strategy for the owners? With copyrights and licencing agreements, could existing franchises keep their identities or would they have to start new (for example, goody bye Montreal Canadiens, hello Montreal __________). Would all existing NHL contracts and drafting rights become null & void? Or would this be so complicated it wouldn't be worth the effort?

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12-07-2012, 03:25 PM
  #212
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one can hope!!!

i am sick of this league. i wish the new wha with bobby hull started in 2005.

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12-07-2012, 03:48 PM
  #213
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Not seeing it happening. NHL is already well-entrenched and the prospect of bringing enough new owners in enough locations and with a high enough payroll to entice enough players to join them and stay with them once the NHL comes because all seems prohibitively unlikely.

enough enough enough enough, because this post didn't have enough's

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12-07-2012, 03:53 PM
  #214
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One side will eventually cave and swallow a deal they aren't happy with.

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12-07-2012, 04:18 PM
  #215
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I've never posted here on the main boards but do post on the Ranger boards. A few weeks ago I made the point that there is no guarantee that a sports league will survive forever. Even the most successful league in the world, the English Premier League, has only been in existence since 1992 when many of the top teams pulled out of its predecessor league to take advantage of making more money in a new league with higher TV revenues.

Though the situation is different in North America and the legalities would certainly seem to mitigate against the death of the NHL, if the season is cancelled and next season put into peril, who knows what will happen. By next year at this time we could see multiple teams go bankrupt and all teams, seeking to save money, saying that they no longer could support their AHL teams. That league could fold.

At that point, who knows what would happen. A new hockey league with big market teams US teams and all Canadian teams (plus QC, Hamilton, and perhaps elsewhere in Ontario) would seem a strong possibility.

Not to say that it would happen, but you never know. Right now the NHL is on the road to oblivion. The true "financial cliff" lies with the NHL. Maybe a new league would be called the WHA2 (WHA "The Next Generation?")

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12-07-2012, 04:24 PM
  #216
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I wouldn't take it that far but the hockey nerd in me wants to see decertification just because it means a change of system, something random, and lots of business activity.

Worst case scenario the NHL as it is can't stay but I don't see the Leafs or Habs as entities closing up shop. Also for all the talk about owners having all the leverage, their franchises are worth something and they won't let that value sink beyond a certain point.

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12-07-2012, 04:50 PM
  #217
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Listen, when you have 2 full lockouts in 15 years, than yes there is a problem. NHL will die. There is not enough demand for a new league outside of Canada. That's the problem with a clean slate

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12-07-2012, 04:52 PM
  #218
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I don't belive we will see the end of the NHL. if the season is lost to this lockout but we will some big changes in how the NHL. is runed first I don't see Gary Bettman & Bill Daliy keeping there jobs second I see betwen 3 - 6 teams relocating within the next 5 - 7 years to stronger more tradtional markets like Hamilton , Quebec City , Seattle , Hartford ect. .

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12-07-2012, 04:54 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
I don't belive we will see the end of the NHL. if the season is lost to this lockout but we will some big changes in how the NHL. is runed first I don't see Gary Bettman & Bill Daliy keeping there jobs second I see betwen 3 - 6 teams relocating within the next 5 - 7 years to stronger more tradtional markets like Hamilton , Quebec City , Seattle , Hartford ect. .
Oh, I get it: cold is traditional...


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12-07-2012, 05:07 PM
  #220
Gm0ney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
I've never posted here on the main boards but do post on the Ranger boards. A few weeks ago I made the point that there is no guarantee that a sports league will survive forever. Even the most successful league in the world, the English Premier League, has only been in existence since 1992 when many of the top teams pulled out of its predecessor league to take advantage of making more money in a new league with higher TV revenues.

Though the situation is different in North America and the legalities would certainly seem to mitigate against the death of the NHL, if the season is cancelled and next season put into peril, who knows what will happen. By next year at this time we could see multiple teams go bankrupt and all teams, seeking to save money, saying that they no longer could support their AHL teams. That league could fold.

At that point, who knows what would happen. A new hockey league with big market teams US teams and all Canadian teams (plus QC, Hamilton, and perhaps elsewhere in Ontario) would seem a strong possibility.

Not to say that it would happen, but you never know. Right now the NHL is on the road to oblivion. The true "financial cliff" lies with the NHL. Maybe a new league would be called the WHA2 (WHA "The Next Generation?")
The EPL is the most successful league in the world?

According to this article it's hardly bigger than the NHL. And looks like it's even less profitable:

Quote:
The English Premier League has retained its place as European football's most lucrative competition after revenues for the 2010/11 season increased by 12% to top 2.27 billion ($3.5 bn), according to a new report.

The German Bundesliga remained the continent's most profitable league as operating profits rose to 154m ($238m), an increase of nearly a quarter on the previous year.

In comparison, the Premier League's operating profits dropped by 16m ($24.8m) to 68m ($105m).
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/30/sp...ier/index.html

And everyone talking about the NHL collapsing and reforming as NHL II...same 29 owners - what's going to change in terms of labour relations? Are you going to tell Jacobs or whoever the league boogeyman is supposed to be that they can't play? And there's no way that new league hits the ground running - everything is back to square 1 - player contracts, TV deals, sponsors, etc.

It's difficult to conceive of a new NHL being successful in the short- or medium- term.

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12-07-2012, 05:27 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
The EPL is the most successful league in the world?

According to this article it's hardly bigger than the NHL. And looks like it's even less profitable:



http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/30/sp...ier/index.html

And everyone talking about the NHL collapsing and reforming as NHL II...same 29 owners - what's going to change in terms of labour relations? Are you going to tell Jacobs or whoever the league boogeyman is supposed to be that they can't play? And there's no way that new league hits the ground running - everything is back to square 1 - player contracts, TV deals, sponsors, etc.

It's difficult to conceive of a new NHL being successful in the short- or medium- term.
Nice Try. Barclays has 20 teams. The NHL thirty. All Barclays teams are making money. Having 10 more teams(all of which lose money) is a deal breaker.

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12-07-2012, 05:30 PM
  #222
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Hopefully the NHL owners and the NHL dies on their hill

And we can start fresh

With owners and investors smart enough to invest in markets where hockey is popular.

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12-07-2012, 05:31 PM
  #223
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No way we see enough money invested to start a new league, would cost an insane amount.

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12-07-2012, 05:39 PM
  #224
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It's not just about profit.....it's about global reach. How many people in Asia, South America, Africa, Australia....know about the Rangers, Flyers, Leafs, Canadians, or changing sports...KC Chiefs, Seattle Seahawks.....Colorado Rockies, Minnesota Twins, etc.

But mention the name Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc and the recognition is immediate. Only North American team that might garner some recognition is the Yankees. NBA teams are probably less recognized than individual players.

I say that as a passionate and fanatic hockey fan, a hardcore baseball fan, and a big time NFL fan. Soccer is my #4 sport, but you can't argue with the worldwide phenomenon that is the EPL.

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12-07-2012, 05:44 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Nice Try. Barclays has 20 teams. The NHL thirty. All Barclays teams are making money. Having 10 more teams(all of which lose money) is a deal breaker.
What?

Very few EPL teams make money. They are investment holes for the super rich. Some of the most marketable and powerful football clubs in the world like Manchester United/Liverpool have or do have issues with debt. Chelsea posted a financial profit for the first time under Abramovich (A tiny one) ; because they won the Champions league.

The EPL is a juggernaut. Far more significant than the NHL. It's still a growing business ; it's new TV contract grew again, and it's international rights will grow too. However, perhaps not in the short-term, or even medium term, the EPL will have serious problems. The capital investment and player salaries cannot go on indefinitely. Something will break.

Unlike the NHL however, the ability for break aways and new super leagues is much much easier in Europe. The power is in the hands of the elite few in soccer.

The NHL is less likely to disappear than the current EPL structure for so many factors it isn't worth getting in to.

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