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Kovalchuk most underated player in NHL?

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:07 AM
  #201
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Saying Neal is like Kovalchuk is kinda like saying Brian Elliott is like Henrik Lundqvist because last year he had a higher save percentage and won the Crozier.

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12-05-2012, 02:09 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Saying Neal is like Kovalchuk is kinda like saying Brian Elliott is like Henrik Lundqvist because last year he had a higher save percentage and won the Crozier.
Most people don't even know what that is!

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12-05-2012, 02:54 AM
  #203
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Most people don't even know what that is!
Because it's a misleading award. 25 games is not enough when you have a season to play.

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12-05-2012, 03:04 AM
  #204
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Because it's a misleading award. 25 games is not enough when you have a season to play.
I was just goofing, just like the guy who mentioned it was goofing on how silly comparing Neal to Kovy is. But I agree.

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12-05-2012, 06:22 AM
  #205
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Kovalchuk cant skate?

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12-05-2012, 12:30 PM
  #206
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He's been the best shooter since he came into the league at 18. He's one of the best shooters I've ever seen, and he's up there with hull that way. I do think he's a better shooter than ovechkin. I think his other skills are elite, but others have him beat in individual categories. Datsyuk is better with the puck, ovechkin is a better hitter when he wants to be, Malkin gets through traffic better. Still kovalchuk is right there in all the offensive categories amongst the best, it's his shooting that can't really been touched.

I've always liked kovy for his passion, never understood the criticism that he is lazy. He always worked his butt off and is great in big games. The work was primarily to score goals, and now it's rounded out. He grew up playing one way, and he had to learn to balance it. I've never been one to minimize an amazing offensive players abilities or accomplishments because he isn't a "good two way player". Seriously who cares? Unique and amazing talents should have a one track mind when that one track can't be touched. Thank god bure didn't play now. Kovy understands he needs to be present in all zones, and it's helped his perception around the league. Now I hope he can put a few more amazing statistical seasons up before he gets old, and cement his legacy.

People were always different about this guy. He lit it up from day one and people didn't give the credit. Ovie came and everyone loved him for being pretty much the same guy. He should go down as one of the greatest goal scorers of this generation, but we will see.

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12-05-2012, 12:46 PM
  #207
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Louie Eriksson.

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12-05-2012, 01:17 PM
  #208
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Louie Eriksson.
If everyone on the planet acknowledges how underrated you are for 5 years in a row, you're not underrated anymore.

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12-07-2012, 07:45 PM
  #209
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Can devil fans please stop trying to convince everyone else how much better Kovalchuk is in his own zone just because he is a devil now please?

I realize these endless threads and posts like this trying to pump up Kovalcuk since Zach bolted makes some fans feel better but the guy is a great enough player not to have a campaign launched to pretend that his is still not a disaster in his own zone!

Kovalchuk is a beast goalscorer with a ridiculous shot, supreme athletic ability and yes, he without a doubt burns intensity big time on the ice.....he also however has below average hockey sense and "forcies"more plays then almost anyone else in the NHL due to him playing so much and the amount of time he has the puck but he is an absolute turnover MACHINE.
And his average to subpar hockey sense on the ice has always had him lost in his own zone....always

He has been a minus player in 9 of his 10 yrs in his career including both with the Devils and in his first with them being atop the minus board in the NHL for almost the entire season finishing at a disgusting -26....that simply can't happen with a guy who scores so often and plays so many minutes.:shake head

This past season he was minus 10 and an ugly minus 7 in just 23 playoff games that saw him turning over pucks left and right this post season.

This is the norm for him....he is a minus player EVERY season despite scoring the goals he and his line do so again please stop with how good he is defensively Devil fans!

This is big season for Kovalchuk to step forward and be a guy to lead his team and be the man on a SUCCESSFUL team.

He was the poster boy for one dimensional offensive star on a bad team all those yrs in Atlanta and his one season as "the guy" with Zach out all years it looked like he was back playing in Atlanta with him not being able to transform his tremendous physical talent into leading a successful team on the ice.

Even this year he got Zach back but even with the talent Kovalchuks team only finished 6th and that took something like a league leading 12 or 13 shootout wins just to get that spot before a cindarella run obviously made up for a so-so regular season for his team.

The team is also not setup at all for the future so Kovalchuk has his work cut out for him if he wants to lead anything other than teams that ranged from middle of the pack to bottom feeder that he has every season of his decade long career thus far.

You can't be top 5 in the Nhl as some here are suggesting without changing that...


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12-07-2012, 09:28 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Can devil fans please stop trying to convince everyone else how much better Kovalchuk is in his own zone just because he is a devil now please?

I realize these endless threads and posts like this trying to pump up Kovalcuk since Zach bolted makes some fans feel better but the guy is a great enough player not to have a campaign launched to pretend that his is still not a disaster in his own zone!

Kovalchuk is a beast goalscorer with a ridiculous shot, supreme athletic ability and yes, he without a doubt burns intensity big time on the ice.....he also however has below average hockey sense and "forcies"more plays then almost anyone else in the NHL due to him playing so much and the amount of time he has the puck but he is an absolute turnover MACHINE.
And his average to subpar hockey sense on the ice has always had him lost in his own zone....always

He has been a minus player in 9 of his 10 yrs in his career including both with the Devils and in his first with them being atop the minus board in the NHL for almost the entire season finishing at a disgusting -26....that simply can't happen with a guy who scores so often and plays so many minutes.:shake head

This past season he was minus 10 and an ugly minus 7 in just 23 playoff games that saw him turning over pucks left and right this post season.

This is the norm for him....he is a minus player EVERY season despite scoring the goals he and his line do so again please stop with how good he is defensively Devil fans!

This is big season for Kovalchuk to step forward and be a guy to lead his team and be the man on a SUCCESSFUL team.

He was the poster boy for one dimensional offensive star on a bad team all those yrs in Atlanta and his one season as "the guy" with Zach out all years it looked like he was back playing in Atlanta with him not being able to transform his tremendous physical talent into leading a successful team on the ice.

Even this year he got Zach back but even with the talent Kovalchuks team only finished 6th and that took something like a league leading 12 or 13 shootout wins just to get that spot before a cindarella run obviously made up for a so-so regular season for his team.

The team is also not setup at all for the future so Kovalchuk has his work cut out for him if he wants to lead anything other than teams that ranged from middle of the pack to bottom feeder that he has every season of his decade long career thus far.

You can't be top 5 in the Nhl as some here are suggesting without changing that...
He shouldn't of even been playing in the playoffs and he lead the playoffs in points. Does Ovechkin have a high hockey sense? The Devils also had the same amount of points as the Bruins betcha didn't know that. Florida had 94 points which was the closest under the Devils (Devils had 102). Well right now he is the man on a SUCCESSFUL team over in SKA even though it isn't NHL he is the still the man in the second best league in the world and is a +16 over there

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12-07-2012, 09:32 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
He's been the best shooter since he came into the league at 18. He's one of the best shooters I've ever seen, and he's up there with hull that way. I do think he's a better shooter than ovechkin. I think his other skills are elite, but others have him beat in individual categories. Datsyuk is better with the puck, ovechkin is a better hitter when he wants to be, Malkin gets through traffic better. Still kovalchuk is right there in all the offensive categories amongst the best, it's his shooting that can't really been touched.

I've always liked kovy for his passion, never understood the criticism that he is lazy. He always worked his butt off and is great in big games. The work was primarily to score goals, and now it's rounded out. He grew up playing one way, and he had to learn to balance it. I've never been one to minimize an amazing offensive players abilities or accomplishments because he isn't a "good two way player". Seriously who cares? Unique and amazing talents should have a one track mind when that one track can't be touched. Thank god bure didn't play now. Kovy understands he needs to be present in all zones, and it's helped his perception around the league. Now I hope he can put a few more amazing statistical seasons up before he gets old, and cement his legacy.

People were always different about this guy. He lit it up from day one and people didn't give the credit. Ovie came and everyone loved him for being pretty much the same guy. He should go down as one of the greatest goal scorers of this generation, but we will see.
He gets called for being lazy because he didn't play any defense. Even if you work your ass off in all other areas of the game if you don't play defense then you are lazy. I am not too sure Malkin gets through traffic better it is very close.

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12-08-2012, 12:15 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Can devil fans please stop trying to convince everyone else how much better Kovalchuk is in his own zone just because he is a devil now please?

I realize these endless threads and posts like this trying to pump up Kovalcuk since Zach bolted makes some fans feel better but the guy is a great enough player not to have a campaign launched to pretend that his is still not a disaster in his own zone!

Kovalchuk is a beast goalscorer with a ridiculous shot, supreme athletic ability and yes, he without a doubt burns intensity big time on the ice.....he also however has below average hockey sense and "forcies"more plays then almost anyone else in the NHL due to him playing so much and the amount of time he has the puck but he is an absolute turnover MACHINE.
And his average to subpar hockey sense on the ice has always had him lost in his own zone....always

He has been a minus player in 9 of his 10 yrs in his career including both with the Devils and in his first with them being atop the minus board in the NHL for almost the entire season finishing at a disgusting -26....that simply can't happen with a guy who scores so often and plays so many minutes.:shake head

This past season he was minus 10 and an ugly minus 7 in just 23 playoff games that saw him turning over pucks left and right this post season.

This is the norm for him....he is a minus player EVERY season despite scoring the goals he and his line do so again please stop with how good he is defensively Devil fans!

This is big season for Kovalchuk to step forward and be a guy to lead his team and be the man on a SUCCESSFUL team.

He was the poster boy for one dimensional offensive star on a bad team all those yrs in Atlanta and his one season as "the guy" with Zach out all years it looked like he was back playing in Atlanta with him not being able to transform his tremendous physical talent into leading a successful team on the ice.

Even this year he got Zach back but even with the talent Kovalchuks team only finished 6th and that took something like a league leading 12 or 13 shootout wins just to get that spot before a cindarella run obviously made up for a so-so regular season for his team.

The team is also not setup at all for the future so Kovalchuk has his work cut out for him if he wants to lead anything other than teams that ranged from middle of the pack to bottom feeder that he has every season of his decade long career thus far.

You can't be top 5 in the Nhl as some here are suggesting without changing that...
The Devils season last year was so-so? 102 points is far from so-so last time I checked, it just so happened there were quite a number of teams that also had excellent seasons. I guess the Bruins looked mediocre as well last season too... And cindarella run, really? I know many didn't peg the Devils to make it that far but did you watch the games at all? I've heard the Devils had a cindarella run and that they had an easy run to the finals... which one is it?

I have a feeling you cant recall the 2010-2011 season properly. Yes, the Devils did play poorly, because of MacLean. It's funny how some people are so quick to point out Kovalchuk's alleged "disappearance" in that season but are so quick to dismiss that he led the Devils on their second half tear, almost bringing them to the playoffs... without Zach.

Devils fans saying Kovalchuk has improved immensely on defense since joining the team is a bit of an exaggeration but he has made great strides to becoming more defensive minded. Having said that he is really only average defensively, probably slightly below average. Us saying he has improved so much just speaks volumes to how bad he was defensively before.

I dont think I've seen a post claiming Kovalchuk is top 5 in the league, he isnt. He makes a pretty good case for top 5 wingers in the league however.

Good post though. Exams can be rough, it's nice to have a good laugh now and then.

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12-08-2012, 12:29 AM
  #213
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He's underrated in fantasy leagues I've been in.

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12-08-2012, 10:54 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Cheddabombs View Post
The Devils season last year was so-so? 102 points is far from so-so last time I checked, it just so happened there were quite a number of teams that also had excellent seasons. I guess the Bruins looked mediocre as well last season too... And cindarella run, really? I know many didn't peg the Devils to make it that far but did you watch the games at all? I've heard the Devils had a cindarella run and that they had an easy run to the finals... which one is it?

I have a feeling you cant recall the 2010-2011 season properly. Yes, the Devils did play poorly, because of MacLean. It's funny how some people are so quick to point out Kovalchuk's alleged "disappearance" in that season but are so quick to dismiss that he led the Devils on their second half tear, almost bringing them to the playoffs... without Zach.

Devils fans saying Kovalchuk has improved immensely on defense since joining the team is a bit of an exaggeration but he has made great strides to becoming more defensive minded. Having said that he is really only average defensively, probably slightly below average. Us saying he has improved so much just speaks volumes to how bad he was defensively before.

I dont think I've seen a post claiming Kovalchuk is top 5 in the league, he isnt. He makes a pretty
good case for top 5 wingers in the league however.

Good post though. Exams can be rough, it's nice to have a good laugh now and then.

Yeah they had a so-so season...they were a SIX seed that needed 12 shootouts gimmick wins to get to even that slot so if a few of the gimmick shootouts go the other way and they could've easily been a ten seed.

The only team that relied on the shoot more was the panthers who also had a their wins and points padded drastically.the same team who was an overtime goal away from sending the devils home to yet another first rd exit.

As for 2010-11 it's devil fans like you that remember it differently...

That teams horrific play simply can't be pinned on a coach...that is a complete joke of an excuse for a team that had 10 wins at the midpoint of the season!

And it was Kovalchuk front and center playing like an absolute abortion in all 3 zones that yr, not just his usual horrid play in his own zone. He forced plays every time he touched the puck and turned the puck over more in that first half of the year than any player I've ever watched....please tell me that wasn't the case

And the comedy continues with devil fans citing their "magical run" because it happens all the time in sports when a team is just so bad and so far out of it that there is simply ZERO pressure to win as expectations are nonexistent so teams go on nice win streaks and get some momentum....like I said it's happened many times in all sports with basement dwelling teams like they were.


As soon as they got within any reasonable chance at the end and some pressure came back into play they cooled right off and were again back among the 8 worst teams in the NHL when all was said and done.

I admitted that Kovalchuk is a physically gifted player and a top scorer...I just can't stand the whole "he is such a better defensive player now because he's on the devils" nonsense that Devil fans constantly spew.

The guy is a minus player EVERY single season save one in his ten yr career for a reason and that reason is because he has low hockey sense on the ice and is absolutely lost in his own zone. And those minus seasons are with him putting up the offensive stats he does...imagine how bad it will be when he slows down offensively!

Kovalchuk gets his chance again this year as the guy....let's see if he falls flat on his face like he did 2 yrs ago without Zach....time will tell

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12-08-2012, 11:01 AM
  #215
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He shouldn't of even been playing in the playoffs and he lead the playoffs in points. Does Ovechkin have a high hockey sense? The Devils also had the same amount of points as the Bruins betcha didn't know that. Florida had 94 points which was the closest under the Devils (Devils had 102). Well right now he is the man on a SUCCESSFUL team over in SKA even though it isn't NHL he is the still the man in the second best league in the world and is a +16 over there
What is so special about trying t o link them to the bruins so hard...you realize they won the cup two yrs ago and that last yr the B's had a wildly inconsistent season and were bounced in the first round.

The devils were the sixth seed who only got there by having the most gimmick points in the NHL outside of the panthers and I guess had the devils lost in overtime of game 6 vs the worst team that made the playoffs and got bounced in the first rd again then the Bs comparison would be more relevant.

And the even more irrelevant points about being a top player and plus 16 as opposed to the career -110 he is in the NHL matters why?

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12-08-2012, 11:03 AM
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I laughed at he's very good defensively and literally stopped when I read he can handle the puck better than Datsyuk.
They are closer then you think. Datsyuk is equally over rated.

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12-08-2012, 11:03 AM
  #217
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People always blah blah all he can do is shoot, can't skate or do anything else.

But he is very good defensively and at skating so I don't know what they're talking about. His shot is better than Ovechkin, he handles the puck better than Datysuk and is smarter than Malkin. Basically, he is better than the other russian players and is an overall very good player.

On a personal level, he's very smart and kind, and also very good looking? Why isn't he on the cover of every sports magazine??? He doesn't whine either like the other players, he just plays harder. Which makes him a great leader and could be captain on any team in the nhl.

My point is, Kovalchuk is very good and very underrated by the "experts" on the board. I think its very likely he will be the best in the NHL next season, anyone who says otherwise is underrating him and is the reason for topics like this. He is just destroying the KHL right now, the nhl gms must have trade deals for him together already.
He's not the most underrated, nor do I think he is underrated.

I think the problem is some people don't see past the Atlanta labels, some of which were unfair and, to add to that, he has improved in some of the areas that were recently a negative to his game. Lazy? He's one of the most passionate players I've ever seen. In Atlanta, I guess he might've been at times defensively, but I think he was just tired and sick of losing. There's probably days where he had the "I give up" attitude, but I don't think I've ever seen it in Jersey.

First off, defensively, he is a good, reliable defensive player. He's no Selke trophy winner, but he's also not as bad as some of the guys in the league. You can trust him out there in defensive situations, is he the best option, probably not, but it's not like he's a liability anymore. He was the third forward pairing for the Devils PK this year, he even had a positive goal differential there, which is pretty incredible if you ask me. I think now he's just making that effort more than he used to, he's smart enough to come back to make 2-on-1s into 2-on-2s, does he necessarily make the right play every time, no, but he definitely comes back to play defense.

Offensively, he is as good as anyone in the league. The ability he has to control the game when he's out there is incredible, very few players have that ability. His shot is one of the best in the league, his playmaking and passing ability is underrated, and his skating and strength is great.

As for his leadership, he is a very good leader. I'm sure it's been mentioned but the way he stands up for his teammates is absolutely incredible. He is really the "there is no I in team type guy." I use this example all the time, but when he played his first Rangers-Devils game, Avery was in the faceoff alongside of him and you saw him say something to Kovalchuk, who ignored him. The second Avery turned to Marty, Kovalchuk jabbed his stick into his gut, not as in to hurt him, but more of a "**** off" type jab. Then, he pounced on him and beat the crap out of him. Kovalchuk did the same when Rinaldo slewfooted Parise, he was the first one trying to get a piece of him. He carried the Devils team last year on a herniated disc and probably something else to the SCF.

I think to say underrated is a bit too much and I don't think so, I just think some people fail to see past his past. I think the more intelligent fan and the more avid fan, especially one whose watched him frequently, see how much of a different player he is.

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12-08-2012, 11:10 AM
  #218
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What is so special about trying t o link them to the bruins so hard...you realize they won the cup two yrs ago and that last yr the B's had a wildly inconsistent season and were bounced in the first round.

The devils were the sixth seed who only got there by having the most gimmick points in the NHL
outside of the panthers and I guess had the devils lost in overtime of game 6 vs the worst team that made the playoffs and got bounced in the first rd again then the Bs comparison would be more relevant.

And the even more irrelevant points about being a top player and plus 16 as opposed to the career -110 he is in the NHL matters why?
Funny you say that, turn extra shootout wins to ties and newsbreak, the Devils are still 6th place in the Eastern Conference. Nice try though.

The Panthers were the Devils Achilles heel the entire season, for some reason, their top line killed us. If you watched that series, you would've realized the Devils starting gelling at the end of that series. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way, because that series really woke up the team and brought them together. They needed to have their backs to the wall, to feel confident in that situation. If it wasn't for the Bernier penalty, I really think the Devils were one of the only teams in the NHL that could've pulled off that comeback in the finals. They came back from series deficits against every team they faced.

Oh yeah, and do you really want to use +/-, it's the worst stat in the book. Ovechkin must be the best defensive player in the league with a +50 something. Kovalchuk's plus minus has just as much to do with the teams he was on as it does to his defensive play. What was the goal differential of all the Atlanta teams when he played there? You can bring up last year's negative +/-, but you can also attribute that to the Devils giving up so many SHG, primarily due to their insistence on handicapping Kovalchuk on the side boards on his backhand, something they did fix mid-season.

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12-08-2012, 11:11 AM
  #219
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He's well rated. A fantastic player who just keeps progressing, but there are guys like Ovechkin and Malkin who are just better.

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12-08-2012, 11:15 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Kovalchuk is not even captain of his own team. Anybody with decent leadership could be a captain on the devils considering the lack of competition for the captain position. Elias didn't even want the Captain and Kovalchuk was beat to it by Parise who hadn't been in the NHL for too long and who abandoned his team after being named captain the year before and making it too the stanley cup finals. So basically Kovalchuk has bad leadership qualities or he would be captain by now.
You've absolutely got to be kidding me here?

Did you really think the Devils were going to name Kovalchuk captain after 1 and a quarter seasons over Parise whose was here for 8 years and on the verge of a UFA season?

They would've just been asking for him to leave, and to be honest, Kovalchuk was the leader of the Devils team way more than Parise if you ask me, especially in the playoffs.

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12-08-2012, 11:18 AM
  #221
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He's well rated. A fantastic player who just keeps progressing, but there are guys like Ovechkin and Malkin who are just better.
Malkin, yes. But I think he's definitely closing in on Ovechkin.

I'd be curious to see other people's opinions, but if I had to build I team right now, I think I'd take Kovalchuk over Ovechkin. Not saying anything bad about Ovechkin.

I just hope that Kovalchuk eventually molds himself into the Marian Hossa type player, improving his defensive game to the point where its one of his strengths, then he will be one hell of a player, even better than he is now.

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12-08-2012, 11:29 AM
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You've absolutely got to be kidding me here?

Did you really think the Devils were going to name Kovalchuk captain after 1 and a quarter seasons over Parise whose was here for 8 years and on the verge of a UFA season?

They would've just been asking for him to leave, and to be honest, Kovalchuk was the leader of the Devils team way more than Parise if you ask me, especially in the playoffs.

The reason Kovalchuk didn't get the C was because he absolutely went to the devils as a UFA only after he spent weeks and weeks trying to get LA to get in the same stratosphere as the devils were which was over the magical 100 million Kovalchuk insisted he needed to sign on.

and when his first choice obviously being LA refused only then was he interested in returning to the devils and their ridiculous 17 yr deal that pushed the envelope so much it resulted in the fines and lost of draft picks including a much needed first considering the devils prospect pool being where it has been these last few yrs.

You can reward somebody with the captain C so shorty after the circus and second choice status he just put the franchise through IMO.

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12-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #223
Zippy316
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The reason Kovalchuk didn't get the C was because he absolutely went to the devils as a UFA only after he spent weeks and weeks trying to get LA to get in the same stratosphere as the devils were which was over the magical 100 million Kovalchuk insisted he needed to sign on.

and when his first choice obviously being LA refused only then was he interested in returning to the devils and their ridiculous 17 yr deal that pushed the envelope so much it resulted in the fines and lost of draft picks including a much needed first considering the devils prospect pool being where it has been these last few yrs.

You can reward somebody with the captain C so shorty after the circus and second choice status he just put the franchise through IMO.
You just want to find an excuse to hate Kovalchuk, now I'm getting it. Not even going to bother to go further then.

How many Devils games did you watch last season, how many playoffs games? Most of the Devils fans on here have seen him way, way more than you've seen him. None of us are hyping him up to be a Selke candidate, but all of us realize he isn't the defensive liability you say he is, and his hockey sense isn't as bad as you say it is.

Explain to me how he has a POSITIVE goal differential on the penalty kill last year, one which he played often on and set NHL records. Yes, he scored more goals on the penalty kill than he allowed, playing the sixth most PK minutes per game for Devils forward per game, fifth if you don't count Zajac's 15 games.


Last edited by Zippy316: 12-08-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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12-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Malkin, yes. But I think he's definitely closing in on Ovechkin.
I'd be curious to see other people's opinions, but if I had to build I team right now, I think I'd take Kovalchuk over Ovechkin. Not saying anything bad about Ovechkin.
It's the same story with all players who are now speculated to be better than Ovechkin: Malkin, Stamkos etc. They may have been better last year, but Ovechkin had six better years than all of them (at least 4 for Crosby). We're too quick to forget, and I believe AO will rebound. He's also younger.

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12-08-2012, 11:47 AM
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It's the same story with all players who are now speculated to be better than Ovechkin: Malkin, Stamkos etc. They may have been better last year, but Ovechkin had six better years than all of them (at least 4 for Crosby). We're too quick to forget, and I believe AO will rebound. He's also younger.
I know.

If I was picking a team, I would prefer Kovalchuk over Ovechkin, but then again, I've read a lot about Kovalchuk and watched him play that I've grown fond of him. Most Devils fans would agree and I would choose very few other players over Kovalchuk in this league, for a variety of reasons. There was a poll last month about specifically, that and a little over half chose Kovalchuk, it was 128 to like 113 or something like that.

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