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Team Rankings: Minnesota Wild owns impressive group of prospects with elite potential

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Old
12-07-2012, 05:51 PM
  #26
ThatGuy22
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Imo Huberdeau > Granlund. The Panthers have hands down the best goalie prospect in the game. Defense Minnesota has the edge, but overall I'd take the Panthers.
You said it, In your opinion. Ask 10 people, probably get 50/50 split on that question of who's better Granlund/Huberdeau. But you can go prospect by prospect and they both have great high end, and great depth. But I tihnk most people would think the Wild have slightly better depth.

Markstrom is probably a better goalie prospect, but the Wild have three high end goalie prospects with Hackett, Kuemper and Gustavson(who has had better stats in the SEL than Markstrom had).

Amongst players that are probably NHLers they line up pretty even. From what I can tell the Wild are a bit deeper. Could be missing someone on the Panthers though.

Huberdeau - Granlund
Bjugstad - Coyle
Shore-Zucker
Grimaldi-Phillips
Rau-Larsson
Howden-Lucia
??? - Bulmer

Matheson-Brodin
Petrovec- Dumba

Markstrom - Hackett
Brittian - Gustafson
??? - Kuemper

Wild also have guys like Haula, Graovac and Brussiers who have taken big steps this year, but who knows how they will play in the pro game.

TL; DR, I imagine it was a close call. Both have a lot of high end, a lot of great depth, and good goalie prospects. The difference in my mind is the high end D and depth at goal. Both teams are just stacked at forward.

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12-07-2012, 05:54 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Zubrus Coffee Maker View Post
impressive turnaround for the franchise. seems like only yesterday they were competing with SJS for last
Most of it was two drafts.

Get Granlund, Zucker, Larsson and Bulmer in 2010.
Get Brodin, Coyle(via trade), Phillips and Lucia in 2011.

That will bump any prospect pool up a few notches.

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Old
12-07-2012, 06:08 PM
  #28
The Podium
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Under the radar for 2-3 years, but we were absolutely dreadful before. Also, I wouldn't say we have much depth on D, having only 2 NHL quality defensemen. Forward depth, high end D and goaltending depth are our strengths.
I honestly thought the D depth was better Oh well still choose them over Florida though.

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12-07-2012, 06:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
I honestly thought the D depth was better Oh well still choose them over Florida though.
Right now it's...

Brodin
Dumba








Seeler
Kampfer
Cuma
etc...

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Old
12-07-2012, 06:15 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
I honestly thought the D depth was better Oh well still choose them over Florida though.
Ya amongst prospects the Wilds D depth is just OK, if that. Cuma could still possibly turn into a 3-4 type guy, but those injuries he suffered really took a toll. Kampfer, and Genoway could be 5-6's, 2nd PP guys. Dreager, Gunnarson and Seeler are possible 3-6 guys, but are a long ways a way and thats if a lot goes right.

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Old
12-07-2012, 06:21 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The Panthers have hands down the best goalie prospect in the game.
Robin Lehner disagrees.

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12-07-2012, 06:37 PM
  #32
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I have no idea how Chicago is ahead of Detroit on this list.

Also, in no way, shape, or form is Jurco a better prospect than Jarnkrok. That's just crazy talk. It should be: Smith, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Tatar, Mrazek.

The overall level of talent in the Wings' system is crazy. They have a TON of boom/bust picks and only need a few to pan out to be okay as an organization. After that they have safe guys like Sheahan, Ferraro, and Andersson to fill spots on the 3rd/4th lines.

Consider this list of boom/bust scoring line forwards: Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Tatar, Jurco, Tvrdon, Frk, Athanasiou, Pulkkinen. Pulkkinen is really the only one out of that list having a bad season.


Last edited by Guru Meditation: 12-07-2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old
12-07-2012, 06:39 PM
  #33
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Good to see the Blues stay in the top ten. I actually like the top 6, Tampa seems kind of out of place, same with Detroit for that matter. I think Montreal should be 7th, then followed by Pittsburgh. And then I would finish it with Anaheim 9th and Buffalo 10th.

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12-07-2012, 06:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Those to statements are ridiculous
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Probably the most objective analysis I've seen thus far. Well thought out.
Good rebuttal, boys.

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Old
12-07-2012, 06:48 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Eerie Hurdler View Post
I have no idea how Chicago is ahead of Detroit on this list.

Also, in no way, shape, or form is Jurco a better prospect than Jarnkrok. That's just crazy talk. It should be: Smith, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Tatar, Mrazek.
I don't know how Jurco is ahead of Jarnkrok or Tatar for that matter. I'm not even sure he'd be in my top 7 or 8 at this point. It's still solid top 10, and a good list overall, though I don't think Tampa belongs in the top 10 maybe the ducks move up instead. I think the wings are ahead of Tampa and are arguably ahead of Chicago & Montreal so they fit in to the 7-9 range.


Last edited by DatsyukToZetterberg: 12-07-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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12-07-2012, 06:59 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Anyone who thinks Ottawa should be lower are just fooling themselves and just hating.

Arguably the best goalie prospect in the league.
Jacob Markstrom says hello.

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2 forwards that are among the best forward prospects in the league in Silfverberg, Zibanejad
Not quite.

Keep homering it up, though.

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Old
12-07-2012, 07:00 PM
  #37
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by WilderPegasus View Post
Robin Lehner disagrees.
That's nice. I doubt you could find a single ranking that has Lehner over Markstrom. Maybe Holtby's above him, but Markstrom > Lehner by a decent margin.

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12-07-2012, 07:02 PM
  #38
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I'd agree with Tampa being too high.
me too

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Old
12-07-2012, 07:05 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy22 View Post
You said it, In your opinion. Ask 10 people, probably get 50/50 split on that question of who's better Granlund/Huberdeau. But you can go prospect by prospect and they both have great high end, and great depth. But I tihnk most people would think the Wild have slightly better depth.

Markstrom is probably a better goalie prospect, but the Wild have three high end goalie prospects with Hackett, Kuemper and Gustavson(who has had better stats in the SEL than Markstrom had).

Amongst players that are probably NHLers they line up pretty even. From what I can tell the Wild are a bit deeper. Could be missing someone on the Panthers though.

Huberdeau - Granlund
Bjugstad - Coyle
Shore-Zucker
Grimaldi-Phillips
Rau-Larsson
Howden-Lucia
??? - Bulmer

Matheson-Brodin
Petrovec- Dumba

Markstrom - Hackett
Brittian - Gustafson
??? - Kuemper

Wild also have guys like Haula, Graovac and Brussiers who have taken big steps this year, but who knows how they will play in the pro game.

TL; DR, I imagine it was a close call. Both have a lot of high end, a lot of great depth, and good goalie prospects. The difference in my mind is the high end D and depth at goal. Both teams are just stacked at forward.
McFarland on offense and Robak on defense are also some pretty good prospects for the Panthers. Personally I'd take every one of the Panthers' forward prospects that you compared with the Wild's(maybe not Grimaldi over Phillips, but Grimaldi has way more upside). Defense Minnesota definitely has the edge in high end talent but Florida has more depth. Goaltending Markstrom is head and shoulders over the rest.

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12-07-2012, 07:10 PM
  #40
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Goalies are so hit or miss that its hard to put much stock in Goaltender prospects. I think prospect rankings tend to reflect that as well.

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12-07-2012, 07:11 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Good rebuttal, boys.
Players like Stone, Noesen and Puempel are a dime a dozen, it is no way elite depth that you have them. Both Noesen and Puempel are producing at a similar rate to Biggs or Leivo, both of which bring the same if not more intangibles, and one of which has the same pedigree. Then we have players like Brown drafted in a late round blowing all of them out of the water statistically, a player like D'amigo can parallel Stone, this all without counting Ashton, Colborne, Frattin, Ross or McKegg all players with "top 6 upside". Leafs also have D (Not including Rielly) that are valued similar to Ceci or Wiercioch. All of these are not impressive prospects, they are ones you keep under your wing and give them time to develop. Some will make the NHL at some capacity and some will bust, but dont sit there thinking that Ottawa's group of these teired prospects are any better than any other teams.

Zibanejad and Silfverberg are not among the best forward prospects in the league...

- Tarasenko
- Yakupov
- Granlund
- Hubredeau
- Kuznetsov
- Baertschi
- Galchenyuk

I have ahead

then Zibanejad battles with the likes of Strome, Schwartz, Kreider, Etem in the next tier

then comes Silfverberg with the Kadris, Forsbergs, Coyles, etc. etc.

Depth, and Lehner are the only things that stand out to me, your higher ranked prospects are safe with a lower ceiling, Zibanejad for example looks to be a defensive specialist 2C, a Jordan Staal/Ryan Kesler type forward, and because of that i think they should be ranked lower.

Better? Dont start a war you asked for all this and Toronto had no business being in this thread.

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Old
12-07-2012, 07:27 PM
  #42
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Laughable how Tampa and Chicago are ahead of Detroit and Anaheim

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Old
12-07-2012, 07:30 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
Good to see the Blues stay in the top ten. I actually like the top 6, Tampa seems kind of out of place, same with Detroit for that matter. I think Montreal should be 7th, then followed by Pittsburgh. And then I would finish it with Anaheim 9th and Buffalo 10th.

Well I think most of you simply don't know enough about Tampa s pool so maybe I can help you out a bit:
near-/ NHL-ready forwards:
Tyler Johnson
Cory Conacher
JT Brown
Alex Killorn
Richard Panik

all potential top 6, maybe even Ondrej Palat can pan out as an Top-6, but its unlikly
Vlad Namestnikov, Gusev and Kucherov all have top-6 potential but will need a year or two.

Defensemen:
Top-4:Koekkoek, Barberio and Korobov ( very unknown, is a 23-year old Belarussian signed out of the KHL inthr offseason)
Other notables: Gudas, Bujus, others are to early to say, put a lot of potential in Sergeev, Nesterov and Dotchin

Goaltending: Tokarski and Vasilevski could get very good starters, Janus plays impressiv in the KHL, Helenius will show us in the next few month, what we can expect and Adam Wilcox is a top 5 goalie ( GAA) in the NCAA as a freshmen

I think they really deserve a place in the top ten, maybe not the 7th but 8th or 9th.
I hope I could give some inside...

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Old
12-07-2012, 07:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
That's nice. I doubt you could find a single ranking that has Lehner over Markstrom.
Here you go... http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay....pe=top_goalies

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12-07-2012, 07:47 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
McFarland on offense and Robak on defense are also some pretty good prospects for the Panthers. Personally I'd take every one of the Panthers' forward prospects that you compared with the Wild's(maybe not Grimaldi over Phillips, but Grimaldi has way more upside). Defense Minnesota definitely has the edge in high end talent but Florida has more depth. Goaltending Markstrom is head and shoulders over the rest.
Thats you, but again, its atleast close. In all spots. Coyle and Bjugstad scored at comparable rates in college, and hell Haula outscore Bjugstad in college and Bjugstad is on the better line. Zucker and Shore scored at the same rate in college while they were there with Zucker being a year younger(Zucker is also outscoring him this year playing 6 less games in the AHL). Granlund and Huberdeau could go either way and any team is lucky to have either of them. I'd take Larsson over Rau(never been a fan, don't think he will translate) any day of the week.

Also, in all honesty I would rather have the Wild's depth at goalie than Markstrom. One injury and they have nothing, but for the Wild its next man up.

Like I said, its a toss up and could go either way. Neither being top would be a crime.

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12-07-2012, 07:55 PM
  #46
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Bjugstad is better than Coyle. Rau actually isn't that impressive. I'd take Haula over him 10 times out of 10 right now.


Last edited by Dr Jan Itor: 12-07-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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Old
12-07-2012, 08:16 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Players like Stone, Noesen and Puempel are a dime a dozen, it is no way elite depth that you have them. Both Noesen and Puempel are producing at a similar rate to Biggs or Leivo,
Both Noesen and Puempel have had seasons in the OHL that neither Biggs nor Leivo have yet to match statistically.

Quote:
both of which bring the same if not more intangibles, and one of which has the same pedigree. Then we have players like Brown drafted in a late round blowing all of them out of the water statistically, a player like D'amigo can parallel Stone,
Do you have issues reading a stats line? Stone has dominated the WHL and the world juniors while putting up stats that neither Brown nor D'amigo can come close to matching.

Quote:
this all without counting Ashton, Colborne, Frattin, Ross or McKegg all players with "top 6 upside".
Maybe AHL top 6 upside but those players are looking less and less like prospects as the years go by.

Quote:
Leafs also have D (Not including Rielly) that are valued similar to Ceci or Wiercioch.
No the Leafs don't. Well, Percy might be close to Wiercioch but he's not close to Ceci.

Quote:
All of these are not impressive prospects, they are ones you keep under your wing and give them time to develop. Some will make the NHL at some capacity and some will bust, but dont sit there thinking that Ottawa's group of these teired prospects are any better than any other teams.
Except Ottawa has proved adept at developing prospects under Murray. Toronto, under Burke, has not.

Quote:
Zibanejad and Silfverberg are not among the best forward prospects in the league...

- Tarasenko
- Yakupov
- Granlund
- Hubredeau
- Kuznetsov
- Baertschi
- Galchenyuk

I have ahead

then Zibanejad battles with the likes of Strome, Schwartz, Kreider, Etem in the next tier
No one really cares who you have ahead when your scouting abilities are clearly non-existent.

Quote:
then comes Silfverberg with the Kadris, Forsbergs, Coyles, etc. etc.
Sifverberg with Kadri? Ha! That's hilarious.

Quote:
Depth, and Lehner are the only things that stand out to me, your higher ranked prospects are safe with a lower ceiling, Zibanejad for example looks to be a defensive specialist 2C, a Jordan Staal/Ryan Kesler type forward, and because of that i think they should be ranked lower.
And elite defensive center good for over 70 points a season? That's a better ceiling than any Leaf prospect except for Rielly.

Quote:
Better? Dont start a war you asked for all this and Toronto had no business being in this thread.
Never go full retard.

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:42 PM
  #48
The Podium
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Originally Posted by WilderPegasus View Post
Both Noesen and Puempel have had seasons in the OHL that neither Biggs nor Leivo have yet to match statistically.
Biggs is in his first season, and the fact that they are more developed and doing worse either suggests their line mates are worse this season yet may have contributed to prior success, or they regressed as players.... pick your poison


Quote:
Do you have issues reading a stats line? Stone has dominated the WHL and the world juniors while putting up stats that neither Brown nor D'amigo can come close to matching.
D'amigo won ECAC rookie of the year, then absolutely ripped the WJC 4th overall in tournament scoring behind Stepan, Hall and Eberle. His 12 points in 7 games are surely no match for stones 4th overall finish with 10 points in 6 games. Oh not to mention, D'amigo was at 20 while Stone was having his great season, D'amigo was in the AHL with a respectable 41 points in 76 games.

Quote:
Maybe AHL top 6 upside but those players are looking less and less like prospects as the years go by.
Its funny, Biggs and Leivo are in the same position as Noesen and Puempel yet are looking less likely to succeed? They were all drafted in the same season. Not to mention we have Frattin who is about to jump in the NHL, so some are looking worse by the day, but some are in the same position as the Ottawa players mentioned.

Quote:
No the Leafs don't. Well, Percy might be close to Wiercioch but he's not close to Ceci.
How about Finn, who was ranked just behind Ceci going into the draft?

Quote:
Except Ottawa has proved adept at developing prospects under Murray. Toronto, under Burke, has not.
Really? Did Gunnarsson, Kulemin, Reimer, Frattin, Kadri, Schenn, Gardiner, Grabovski (somewhat, broke out here), Bozak, and Stalberg fall from the sky?

Quote:
No one really cares who you have ahead when your scouting abilities are clearly non-existent.
Never asked if anyone cares, i stated my opinion then my fan base (who wasnt even mentioned) was attacked for it, i was then provoked to explain my reasoning.

Quote:
Sifverberg with Kadri? Ha! That's hilarious.
Ya Kadris better stats in the same league obviously mean hes worse....

Quote:
And elite defensive center good for over 70 points a season? That's a better ceiling than any Leaf prospect except for Rielly.
Keslers season was an anomaly, hes regularly a 50 point player. Thats no knock on Zibanejad, just not the elite skill youd expect from a top prospect is all.

Quote:
Never go full retard.
You went there.

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:59 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Right now it's...

Brodin
Dumba








Seeler
Kampfer
Cuma
etc...
Draeger will be moving up that list, has already been improving from the start of this season.

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Old
12-07-2012, 09:07 PM
  #50
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Imagine if Minnesota didn't trade Leddy

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