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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Speculation: Gary Bettman's future

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Old
12-07-2012, 06:31 PM
  #101
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Any chance we'll soon be seeing the end of Gary Bettman? Negotiations seemed to pick up this week once Gary Bettman was removed from the bargaining table. He's universally despised by fans, media, players, and probably the majority of owners alike. His tenure as commissioner has been marked both by controversy and constant work stoppages. Bottom line: he's been a failure.

Any chance we could soon be seeing the end of Gary Bettman as National Hockey League commissioner?
Source?

After what the players just did to the moderate owners, the owners would love nothing more than to keep Bettman if the players truly do hate him.

Just because you have a problem with him doesn't mean everyone does.

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12-07-2012, 06:32 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Bettman should be canned for the simple reason that he refuses to negotiate off of a NHLPA proposal. He refuses to give their proposals due consideration before outright rejecting them. How can you reject four proposals each after 10 minutes when the other party takes hours / days to analyze your proposals, identify issues and counter? Sure, the PA may not be giving you what you want, but counter-offer, negotiate, discuss, bring up the problems, etc. Simply rejecting the proposals that quickly doesn't buy you any good faith, trust or cooperation. How can you lead a group in a negotiation if you're so socially inept? If you have to present the final proposal for it to be accepted by the PA, check your ego at the door or go to hell.

If you present the same empty box with a different color bow on it each time, it's still a empty box.

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12-07-2012, 06:39 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'm trying to understand why the owners would be so mad that the players no longer wanted to discuss issues without Donald Fehr back in the room?

What were they afraid of?

Were they concerned that they were not going to have to talk to an equal intellect who's been dealing with Labour issues since 1981?

I fail to understand why they left in a huff. Seems pretty petty to me.
I think they thought they would do a deal right then and there.
but I thought the meeting was supposed to be, we just want to have a talk with some players and see where they are coming from and they can see our position.

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12-07-2012, 07:03 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Actually, you may. After 2004, it might have been best if Bettman had stepped down and just clear the air. The 2004 lockout was bitter but this one is even worse and that is probably in direct relation to the 2004 lockout. Removing Bettman is a positive step in the eyes of the PA, a good will gesture that it's time to get fresher blood, a different view point and maybe someone the PA would work with.
Why would the NHL get rid of someone that has been following there orders... you think if they fired him last year and hired some random guy, that random guy wouldn't call for a vote to lockout the players? You think if Bill Daly stepped up and took over he wouldn't be doing what the owners wanted (lockout if there's no CBA)?

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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Uh, I thought Bettman represented the owners? And helped shape the agreement between the owners and the players?
You just gave a reason... there are two sides, one represented by Bettman, other by Fehr. I don't understand the logic behind "two sides can't make a deal, so I'm going to solely blame this one person/side".

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12-07-2012, 07:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by dkhockey View Post
And Has there ever been a NHL-NBA-MLB-NFL Commissioner that got fired ?
Short answer yes: Major League Baseball's Bowie Kuhn. Primarily for pizzing off the baseball owners by ending a lockout.

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12-07-2012, 07:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Bettman should be canned for the simple reason that he refuses to negotiate off of a NHLPA proposal. He refuses to give their proposals due consideration before outright rejecting them. How can you reject four proposals each after 10 minutes when the other party takes hours / days to analyze your proposals, identify issues and counter? Sure, the PA may not be giving you what you want, but counter-offer, negotiate, discuss, bring up the problems, etc. Simply rejecting the proposals that quickly doesn't buy you any good faith, trust or cooperation. How can you lead a group in a negotiation if you're so socially inept? If you have to present the final proposal for it to be accepted by the PA, check your ego at the door or go to hell.
Its easy to say no to proposals when the parts you have to have in are taken out.

The players are not negotiating in good faith.

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12-07-2012, 07:41 PM
  #107
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Bettman is not the problem here and I don't even like him.

Whatever Fehr has put in the koolaid for the players is the problem.

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12-07-2012, 08:00 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by AM View Post
The players are not negotiating in good faith.
Im surprised the NHLPA's negotiating at all, even pretending to be civil. First, the NHL launches its Blitzkrieg. Sends in its Panzers followed by the Shock Troops. Rolls back the clock, the years. Reclaim's what it feels are its lost lands & territories. Attempting to strip the players of hard won rights & freedoms while blaming its own ills' on labour. Then, while starving the population (players, broadcasters, sponsors, fans, countless tens of thousands more who rely on the NHL) to death it begins its negotiations. All the while of course doing irreparable harm to its own brand and image, setting back even further a great many of its franchises who will take years to recover (and some who just might not make it at all) from the folly of so misguided and ill conceived a strategy to begin with. But yup, sure thing AM. Its all the players fault, being lead through the Gates of Purgatory by everyones favourite Anti-Christ; Donald Fehr, and all the Christ like Disciples of the NHL can do is weep as the players take the game right over the edge & into the inferno, dragging the league, the fans, broadcasters & sponsors into the abyss....


Last edited by Killion: 12-07-2012 at 09:42 PM.
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12-07-2012, 08:47 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ynnek View Post
Bettman is not the problem here and I don't even like him.

Whatever Fehr has put in the koolaid for the players is the problem.
With your logic Bettman is the problem as he must be feeding the owners some good kool aid, and unlike Fehr Bettman was here for the last 2 lock outs before this one...

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12-07-2012, 09:38 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Frkinator View Post
With your logic Bettman is the problem as he must be feeding the owners some good kool aid, and unlike Fehr Bettman was here for the last 2 lock outs before this one...
Quote:
With the NHL locking out the players at midnight on September 15, 2012, Fehr became the only Executive Director to be directly involved in work stoppages in two sports. Six of the eight contract negotiations he has been involved in have resulted in work stoppages, including five consecutive negotiations between the MLBPA and Major League Baseball.
Also, owners voted 30-0 for lockout. If you want to blame someone, blame the owners. Bettman can't magically say to 30 owners, no I don't want to lock players out because we already locked them out 2 times.

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12-07-2012, 10:15 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
As for Bettman, he did seem a little rattled last night at the podium.

Like a petulent child that didn't get the desired result of his most recent manipulation of having the players and owners meet face to face.

Like it was the last trick in his bag outside of a nuclear winter.

I believe that Bettman is safe if gets a deal done. Another canceled season and he is absolutely a goner.
This ^ there's not really a positive way to spin it if the season gets cancelled.
Last time around at least Bettman and the NHL could come out and say that they got cost certainty in july that they were not being offered in February.

Let's do some simple math here;

For arguments sake we'll say that if the season is saved and resumed in late january, 70% of overall revenue gets made (it would be half a regular season but playoffs kept intact and still maintaining most of merchandise, liscensing fees etc) or each side getting 35% of a normal season. If Bettman nixes the season over it. And I'll be optimistic and say the NHL convinces the PA to accept the NHL's first offer (with the owners getting 57%); that would take the owners 5 years to recoup the lost season. And thats not even counting the fact that there will inevitably be fan casualties if another season is lost.

If Bettman nixes another season, he'd have to hit a home run to keep his job. Even as it is now I can't imagine him being kept around for the next CBA expiration whether Fehr's around or not. The owners will have to do SOMETHING to show the fans there's a chance the next one will not result in another lockout.

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:54 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit916 View Post
Why would the NHL get rid of someone that has been following there orders... you think if they fired him last year and hired some random guy, that random guy wouldn't call for a vote to lockout the players? You think if Bill Daly stepped up and took over he wouldn't be doing what the owners wanted (lockout if there's no CBA)?
You are oversimplifying the issue here. The owners aren't making any money right now. Second time in 7 years this has happened. If they aren't making any money, then that is the issue. You don't own and operate an NHL team out of the good of your heart. You own them like owning a very expensive toy and hopefully make money off of it when and if you decide to sell them in the future. Bettman represents the owners. That is correct. But the fact of the matter is, the players' don't like Bettman. And if you don't like someone, you probably aren't going to make their lives any easier. Removing Bettman while a token move could go along ways to smoothing things out between the NHL and the NHLPA. The NHLPA might be more than willing to listen to a new person than someone they have dealt with before. Someone that might actually listen to them and compromise better or come up with a better solution.

Quote:
You just gave a reason... there are two sides, one represented by Bettman, other by Fehr. I don't understand the logic behind "two sides can't make a deal, so I'm going to solely blame this one person/side".
I'm blaming both sides. But Fehr is leaving. Bettman isn't.

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12-08-2012, 07:22 AM
  #113
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Players would hate next commissioner anyway. Fans too.

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12-08-2012, 02:36 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Players would hate next commissioner anyway. Fans too.
Depends on who it is and his willingness to bridge talks.

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12-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Depends on who it is and his willingness to bridge talks.
So when you say Bettman isn't willing to bridge talks, are you saying he should have offered more money to the players? That's basically the only meaningful thing on the table here.

(And if so, how do you square that with the fact that the NHL is the poorest of the major 4 leagues, and yet offered its players the highest % of revenue out of all of them in time for a full season? Assuming other operating costs are pretty similar to, say, basketball, the math would suggest the NHL would need to pay even less.)

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12-08-2012, 03:23 PM
  #116
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Considering Fehr managed to piss off the moderate owners, I have a feeling Bettman managed to show to his employers first hand that the lockout is hardly his fault.
He's going to be the commish for as long as he wants to be

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12-08-2012, 03:48 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
So when you say Bettman isn't willing to bridge talks, are you saying he should have offered more money to the players? That's basically the only meaningful thing on the table here.
Willing to negotiate. Both Fehr and Bettman have pretty much drawn a line in the sand. At least we don't have to worry about Fehr next time around but Bettman?

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12-08-2012, 04:52 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Depends on who it is and his willingness to bridge talks.
Not really. The commissioner in any of the big 4 leagues gets hated as a matter of course. All the job of a commissioner is in this day and age is to take the heat for the people who are really running the show and that's the owners.


Last edited by SaintPatrick33: 12-08-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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12-08-2012, 05:42 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
The seas could part and Jesus Christ himself could descend from the heavens, and Judgement Day could be upon us.


And after that, Gary Bettman will still be the commissioner of the NHL
^
This

Bettman has done a wonderful job in owners eyes

His time as commish will end when he wants it to end

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12-08-2012, 06:43 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Pyromaniac3 View Post
Also, owners voted 30-0 for lockout. If you want to blame someone, blame the owners. Bettman can't magically say to 30 owners, no I don't want to lock players out because we already locked them out 2 times.
Thanks for proving the point:

I'm sure the Leafs and Habs voted to lock-out without any input from Bettman.

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12-08-2012, 07:15 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Willing to negotiate. Both Fehr and Bettman have pretty much drawn a line in the sand. At least we don't have to worry about Fehr next time around but Bettman?
"Pretty much drawn a line in the sand" sounds more like it's about the tone of negotiations than the content. Gary Bettman has done anything but draw a line in the sand substantively. Like clockwork, every two weeks he brings forward another offer, more favorable to the players, whether the players make one or not. It's basically textbook negotiation strategy.

If you dislike the way his actions come across, however, I think as much of that is spin as anything. The same offer the NBA gave their players last summer is suddenly an "insult," even though it puts 50% halfway between 43 and 57. The NHL said "take it or leave it" on an offer when they were in fact quoted as saying they were willing to tweak the deal, especially the "make whole" provision, which represents the entire financial gulf they're arguing over. I don't think Gary Bettman has negotiated obstinately. In fact, I don't think Don Fehr has really negotiated obstinately, either - except in his insistence of delinkage, which neither makes political nor financial sense. The only difference is that Don Fehr has cost his side money by having a bad negotiation strategy, and that's why this is so frustrating. If the PA were just negotiating to get the best deal they could, it'd have been done in October.

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12-09-2012, 02:18 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Players would hate next commissioner anyway. Fans too.
Most fans will say amazing things about the next commissioner, especially if he's Canadian. If something good happens, it will all be to the credit of the next commissioner. If a team moves or expands into Canada, some people will want his birthday to be a national holiday. If something bad happens, it won't be his fault.

Bettman gets paid millions to be the scapegoat for all the Canadian teams and all the old US teams. If there wasn't a commissioner, then people might start blaming the people who actually make the rules on and off the ice.

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12-09-2012, 02:24 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by JayzinSmith View Post
Most fans will say amazing things about the next commissioner, especially if he's Canadian. If something good happens, it will all be to the credit of the next commissioner. If a team moves or expands into Canada, some people will want his birthday to be a national holiday. If something bad happens, it won't be his fault.

Bettman gets paid millions to be the scapegoat for all the Canadian teams and all the old US teams. If there wasn't a commissioner, then people might start blaming the people who actually make the rules on and off the ice.
The last time they had a Canadian as the figurehead he was roundly hated in Canada for suspending Richard.

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12-09-2012, 02:25 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
^
This

Bettman has done a wonderful job in owners eyes

His time as commish will end when he wants it to end
Proof?

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12-09-2012, 02:27 AM
  #125
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Oh, and Bettman's predecessor John Ziegler? Fired by the owners for caving in to the players in '92. Bettman's well aware of that.

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