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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Roster Talk '13 — Sweden

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:00 PM
  #151
Minister of Offence
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
For doing what they believe is best for the development of their prospect?
Maybe it's for fostering the development of Erik Karlsson. Not batting an eye when Silfverberg wanted another year in Sweden. Karlsson won the Norris before some people thought he'd even be in the NHL.


Last edited by Minister of Offence: 12-06-2012 at 07:14 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 07:04 PM
  #152
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Sure they do. The thing is a decision like this shouldn't even be done by a club. You have an official international event and that's it. Selected players play there.
Team Canada are used to miss out on a handful of players each year since forever now, that is no news. Unfortunately for Sweden we have produced many top-notch talents these last couple of years so now we get the same.

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12-06-2012, 08:36 PM
  #153
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It's a shame that Brodin won't be going.

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12-07-2012, 01:36 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Team Canada are used to miss out on a handful of players each year since forever now, that is no news. Unfortunately for Sweden we have produced many top-notch talents these last couple of years so now we get the same.
Everyone with _some_ hockey knowledge knows Canada has been hit hard. Difference is that when a good Canadian youngster gets stopped from the WJC team, it's because they're playing in the NHL (when there isnt a lockout).

When was the last time an AHL player was forced out of Team Canada to play AHL hockey?


Last edited by DaveH: 12-07-2012 at 02:36 AM.
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12-07-2012, 01:46 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
Everyone with _some_ hockey knowledge knows Canada has been hit hard. Difference is that their best players are playing in the NHL.

When was the last time an AHL player was forced out of Team Canada to play AHL hockey?
Very unlikely to happen. The CHL and NHL have an agreement that any 18/19 year old player that doesn't make an NHL roster must be returned to their junior team.

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12-07-2012, 01:47 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
Everyone with _some_ hockey knowledge knows Canada has been hit hard. Difference is that their best players are playing in the NHL.

When was the last time an AHL player was forced out of Team Canada to play AHL hockey?
I dont know, but there are no NHL right now, so maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe Ottawa just feels like putting Canadas opponents at a disadvantage.

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12-07-2012, 02:41 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I dont know, but there are no NHL right now, so maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe Ottawa just feels like putting Canadas opponents at a disadvantage.
I can't see how NHL has anything to do with it, maybe Ottawa think there is a connection that noone else in the world can see.

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12-07-2012, 02:46 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
Very unlikely to happen. The CHL and NHL have an agreement that any 18/19 year old player that doesn't make an NHL roster must be returned to their junior team.
Ok, clearly I'm in over my head here as I'm not familiar with all the rules.

So, there's never been a WJC eligible played moved from an NHL team to an AHL one?

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12-07-2012, 03:45 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
Ok, clearly I'm in over my head here as I'm not familiar with all the rules.

So, there's never been a WJC eligible played moved from an NHL team to an AHL one?
If they are junior aged and they came from the CHL, they have a maximum of 9 games to play in the NHL before their entry level contract locks in. After the 10th game, they can only play in the NHL. They cannot play in the AHL, as per the inter league agreement. If they are sent down to their junior club, they cannot be called up to the NHL for the remainder of the season, unless on an emergency basis.

This is not the case for college players, as I don't believe there is an agreement in place. I don't think Euro leagues have anything in place either. For players from these other leagues, they are allowed to play in the AHL.

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12-07-2012, 03:54 AM
  #160
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If they are junior aged and they came from the CHL, they have a maximum of 9 games to play in the NHL before their entry level contract locks in. After the 10th game, they can only play in the NHL. They cannot play in the AHL, as per the inter league agreement. If they are sent down to their junior club, they cannot be called up to the NHL for the remainder of the season, unless on an emergency basis.
Right, I did know those rules now that you mention it. Don't know what I was thinking though.

Question corrected: has any Canadian (not injured) players playing below NHL-level ever been forced out of Canadian WJC team?
Answer is probably no, and in my honest opinion - there ought to be rules stating that any junior not playing in their NHL team SHOULD go to their national team unless injured or officially retired (well, thats not going to happen).

No "decide for yourself kid, we'll let you have the final decision" as you know some wouldnt dare travel to the WJCs with that pressure from their employer.


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12-07-2012, 05:31 AM
  #161
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I can't see how NHL has anything to do with it, maybe Ottawa think there is a connection that noone else in the world can see.
I mean that they might just believe that his development will be better in the AHL than in the WJC. That league is better than the WJC and they play on small rinks. If the NHL was an option at the moment he either would be there or in juniors, in the latter case he obviously would be eligible to play for Sweden. But this season the AHL is the new NHL.

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12-07-2012, 08:47 AM
  #162
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Ottawa has the right to chose where Zib plays, and he knew that when he signed the contract. Don't know why you're complaining, they are just doing what they think is best for the organisation.

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12-07-2012, 10:09 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
Ottawa has the right to chose where Zib plays, and he knew that when he signed the contract. Don't know why you're complaining, they are just doing what they think is best for the organisation.
I'm sure he's thrilled. Keeping players away from something they never want is never good. Especially when he's singled out as one of the first ever (if not the only one) to be forced out of a WJC whilst in an AHL team.

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12-07-2012, 10:29 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
Everyone with _some_ hockey knowledge knows Canada has been hit hard. Difference is that when a good Canadian youngster gets stopped from the WJC team, it's because they're playing in the NHL (when there isnt a lockout).

When was the last time an AHL player was forced out of Team Canada to play AHL hockey?
I really don't think you're wrong to suggest had Ziba been Canadian, he'd be playing for Canada. But if you think it's because the Canadian management of this Canadian team is out to weaken Sweden to help Canada...that's lunacy.

If it were the case, it's because the country pretty well stops for this tournament, as annoying as it can be sometimes, the backlash could be immense. They'd probably let him join Canada if he was Canadian, but they probably wouldn't think it's best for him. They'd feel like they have to release him. AS far as RNH goes, he's already been around a PPG in the NHL at 18, the Oilers probably don't care where he's playing over Christmas.

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12-07-2012, 10:41 AM
  #165
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He already won Gold and scored the winning goal.

Not sure what else there is for him to learn at this level.

I've gone on the record as saying that RNH shouldn't be going either. He's a man among boys at this point and it's pointless for his development.

As an NHL star, he's not a "junior" player anymore, even if he's "junior-aged".

The fact that he never got the opportunity to play in a WJC before gives me a tiny bit more sympathy for him than Zibanejad, who already had a winning experience.

Not to mention that Zibanejad is still learning the North-American game for the team that pays his salary, with whom he has a contract, while that isn't an issue for RNH.

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12-07-2012, 11:04 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I really don't think you're wrong to suggest had Ziba been Canadian, he'd be playing for Canada. But if you think it's because the Canadian management of this Canadian team is out to weaken Sweden to help Canada...that's lunacy.

If it were the case, it's because the country pretty well stops for this tournament, as annoying as it can be sometimes, the backlash could be immense. They'd probably let him join Canada if he was Canadian, but they probably wouldn't think it's best for him. They'd feel like they have to release him. AS far as RNH goes, he's already been around a PPG in the NHL at 18, the Oilers probably don't care where he's playing over Christmas.
Thats the exact opposite of what I was saying. Canada is the country that has been hit the hardest by having good youngsters in the NHL (If you dont look at the total number of players each country has) through the years. I dont think he's stopped from playing for Team Sweden to give Canada an advantage.

The other part is just speculation. Some players grow in these competitions, some players dont. There is nothing to suggest he's gotten any worse because he won a gold for Sweden.

I'm having issues with Ottawa thinking this is the defining moment of his career, thinking he's somekind of a special case that dont get to go to the WJC, whilst everyone else from the AHL is going.
I might aswell blame Ottawa for ruining his career by throwing him into the NHL too early and not letting him get there gradually, there I said it. Should he become a failiure - I've got the single specific reason to why right here.

No, that's really not how it works is it.


Last edited by DaveH: 12-07-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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12-07-2012, 12:29 PM
  #167
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Right, I did know those rules now that you mention it. Don't know what I was thinking though.

Question corrected: has any Canadian (not injured) players playing below NHL-level ever been forced out of Canadian WJC team?
Answer is probably no, and in my honest opinion - there ought to be rules stating that any junior not playing in their NHL team SHOULD go to their national team unless injured or officially retired (well, thats not going to happen).

No "decide for yourself kid, we'll let you have the final decision" as you know some wouldnt dare travel to the WJCs with that pressure from their employer.
exactly what i was thinking... yea you know you can do whatever you want but we suggest you stay here... Who in their right mind would go against that, even though it seems such a polite way to do it

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12-07-2012, 02:33 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
I'm having issues with Ottawa thinking this is the defining moment of his career, thinking he's somekind of a special case that dont get to go to the WJC, whilst everyone else from the AHL is going.
I might aswell blame Ottawa for ruining his career by throwing him into the NHL too early and not letting him get there gradually, there I said it. Should he become a failiure - I've got the single specific reason to why right here.
Wait.. Isn't it all Djurgårdens coach fault?

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12-07-2012, 10:21 PM
  #169
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Roger Ronneberg isn't coaching this year right ?

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12-07-2012, 10:47 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
He already won Gold and scored the winning goal.

Not sure what else there is for him to learn at this level.

I've gone on the record as saying that RNH shouldn't be going either. He's a man among boys at this point and it's pointless for his development.

As an NHL star, he's not a "junior" player anymore, even if he's "junior-aged".

The fact that he never got the opportunity to play in a WJC before gives me a tiny bit more sympathy for him than Zibanejad, who already had a winning experience.

Not to mention that Zibanejad is still learning the North-American game for the team that pays his salary, with whom he has a contract, while that isn't an issue for RNH.
I don't buy that argument.

The competition in this year's WJC >>> last years.

Zibby would've been the undisputed leader on his team. The pressure on his shoulders this time around would've been far greater than last year. The impact of this tournament would've been greater on his development than a dozen AHL games will be.

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12-08-2012, 01:11 AM
  #171
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I don't buy that argument.

The competition in this year's WJC >>> last years.

Zibby would've been the undisputed leader on his team. The pressure on his shoulders this time around would've been far greater than last year. The impact of this tournament would've been greater on his development than a dozen AHL games will be.
^This.

There is no justifying not letting him go.

If they really cared about Zibanejad at all, both as a prospect but even more as a person, they would let him go. I will never be able to understand how they can keep a young guy (WHO WANTS TO PLAY THIS TOURNAMENT) from playing it.

I hope the Ottawa management sleeps well at night.

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12-08-2012, 02:17 AM
  #172
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I don't buy that argument.

The competition in this year's WJC >>> last years.

Zibby would've been the undisputed leader on his team. The pressure on his shoulders this time around would've been far greater than last year. The impact of this tournament would've been greater on his development than a dozen AHL games will be.
Except this is on big ice and they want Zibanejad to adjust to NHL ice.

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12-08-2012, 02:51 AM
  #173
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Except this is on big ice and they want Zibanejad to adjust to NHL ice.
Sure, but the fact is that this WJC is unique opportunity to test him in a role mentioned above - team leader, the pressure, do or die games etc. He won't be placed in such situation again maybe for years. But to play regular season AHL games is something he can do anytime in years to come. I think he's not a retard which would forget during 2 weeks how to play on NA ice.

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12-08-2012, 03:56 AM
  #174
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Unless a player is top 6 on forward in the NHL or top 4 on D, they should be released. I always think it is better development to play a number one role in the WJC against stellar competition than to play 7 minutes a game in the NHL. Great for confidence and to show the player where he should stand once developed. I don't understand the mentality of holding back players and to do it for the AHL is totally inexcusable. It happens every year though. Get used to it Sweden...you are a major feeder nation to the NHL now.

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12-08-2012, 04:18 AM
  #175
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Roger Ronneberg isn't coaching this year right ?


Yes he is. But after this tournament he is finished.

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