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NHL Lockout XXIV: Oi! Get your filthy hands off my desert!

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:23 AM
  #51
NYRKING30
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Without Fehr, no. With Fehr i'm not so sure.
I know what Fehr would advise them to do but you gotta think that majority of the players won't let that happen. I doubt even a hardliner would want to lose 2 full seasons of salary.

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12-08-2012, 12:24 AM
  #52
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One thing's for sure, I'm not interested in watching a last minute abbreviated season nor the cash grab playoffs it will lead to.

Cancel the season and get a decent deal done.

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:26 AM
  #53
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Fehr will always be looking for a better deal no matter what the pA is offered.

Recently my sister told the story of my mother's negotiating skill when shopping.

She would ask the price and upon hearing the price she would ask the salesman for his best price. Often the salesman would better the price while indicating that he couldn't do better. My mother would insist that to buy the item he had to do better. The salesman would seek out the owner, bring him back to meet my mother so he could give the final word on pricing. After hearing from the owner my mother would say that I'm planning on buying the item right now but I'll need a better price. The owner would say here's my final offer but my mother would insist that it's not low enough. When the owner got angry enough to the point that my mother could see him turn red and see his veins in his neck pop out in anger she knew she had his best price and only then would make a deal.

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12-08-2012, 12:31 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post

NHLPA: "Let's bring Mediators back to the table!", "We believe that we're close to a deal..."

NHL: "If we're close to a deal why do we need a mediator?"

That right there is all I need to hear to know that certain, high-ranking members of the PA and its staff have no legitimate interest in striking a deal.
This is the part that I dont get either. It really seems like the PA doesnt intend on getting a deal done.

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12-08-2012, 12:31 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Fehr will always be looking for a better deal no matter what the pA is offered.

Recently my sister told the story of my mother's negotiating skill when shopping.

She would ask the price and upon hearing the price she would ask the salesman for his best price. Often the salesman would better the price while indicating that he couldn't do better. My mother would insist that to buy the item he had to do better. The salesman would seek out the owner, bring him back to meet my mother so he could give the final word on pricing. After hearing from the owner my mother would say that I'm planning on buying the item right now but I'll need a better price. The owner would say here's my final offer but my mother would insist that it's not low enough. When the owner got angry enough to the point that my mother could see him turn red and see his veins in his neck pop out in anger she knew she had his best price and only then would make a deal.
Really? Because the lowest price is never the lowest price. If you're in the store it's because you're looking to buy something so the dice are always weighted against you.

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12-08-2012, 12:36 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Russo



Excellent question, Russo. Walsh spends too much time whining, badmouthing, and fighting on twitter. Sometimes I think he's jealous that Fehr gets more attention.
...Fehr has stated that he's retiring again after this process has been completed. Despite the fact that Steve is the most likely candidate, it's entirely possible that Walsh is campaigning for the job.

Of course, it may just be to increase his visibility to attract more clients...

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:38 AM
  #57
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I dont get why some players and some posters are making comments about how the NHL left a voice mail saying how its like a high school break up or what not.

Players should really be wondering more why the hell your representatives are missing calls from the main people they are negotiating with. They look like clowns. If Don Fehr is busy giving his fake "impromptu" press conference, then stevie boy should have the phone. Pretty simple.

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12-08-2012, 12:40 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
This is the part that I dont get either. It really seems like the PA doesnt intend on getting a deal done.
I'm not saying the PA is or isn't playing games in that scenario because I think we all agree that press conference was, at best, disingenuous but the best time for a mediator is when you're either really far apart and are going for a bit of a hailmary, or close and could use a bit of a push over the finish line. That's why the mediator said they'd hopefully reenter at a later time.

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12-08-2012, 12:43 AM
  #59
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I dont get why some players and some posters are making comments about how the NHL left a voice mail saying how its like a high school break up or what not.

Players should really be wondering more why the hell your representatives are missing calls from the main people they are negotiating with. They look like clowns. If Don Fehr is busy giving his fake "impromptu" press conference, then stevie boy should have the phone. Pretty simple.
In previous jobs where we had to complete late night deals on a regular basis, you had to be available at ALL times no exceptions even if it meant staying up all night. This part is definitely suspicious. Almost like Fehr didnt want to answer the call. I dont buy the press conference excuse either. The evidence appears to be accumulating against Fehr's real motivations.

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12-08-2012, 12:46 AM
  #60
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...Fehr has stated that he's retiring again after this process has been completed. Despite the fact that Steve is the most likely candidate, it's entirely possible that Walsh is campaigning for the job.

Of course, it may just be to increase his visibility to attract more clients...
Don't even say that! It puts it out there. That would be a nightmare.

And if he's trying to attract more clients, he's going about it the wrong way. If anything, he's chasing them away. He's an unstable guy with a twitter account who could potentially create problems between his client and that client's club. He publicly insults teams, GM's, and coaches when they don't cater to his clients. He creates rough waters when it's unnecessary. He doesn't show any respect by handling some problems behind closed doors.

I'm starting to understand more and more why Gabby dumped this guy long ago. And wouldn't ya know, part of the reason he fired Walsh was because no progress was being made during his negotiations for a new contract with the Wild. Letting that guy go was the first step that led to re-signing him days later.

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12-08-2012, 12:46 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
In previous jobs where we had to complete late night deals on a regular basis, you had to be available at ALL times no exceptions even if it meant staying up all night. This part is definitely suspicious. Almost like Fehr didnt want to answer the call. I dont buy the press conference excuse either. The evidence appears to be accumulating against Fehr's real motivations.
Thats what id be thinking. We are talking basically billion dollar negotiations and at critical times, you are missing calls. Pretty amateurish, and makes me pretty skeptical of intentions. Makes me wonder about players capacity when they fail to see this.

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:52 AM
  #62
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I guess they'll pretend to be angry during the Weekend, touch base on Monday and meet Tuesday.

You can't rush pretending to be far apart.
This. I'd be surprised if the middle of next week came and they weren't talking. They're not as close as Fehr said, but they aren't much further apart. Everything that was on the table this past week will be made available.

To the poster saying two seasons are getting cancelled - very, very unlikely. In my opinion, they aren't far enough to cancel one season over, yet alone get stuck for another full 365 days plus. The only way this would happen is if they didn't meet for a very long time. It's only a matter of time until one of the sides contacts the other sides for a meeting. I don't know which one, though.

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12-08-2012, 12:59 AM
  #63
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This. I'd be surprised if the middle of next week came and they weren't talking. They're not as close as Fehr said, but they aren't much further apart. Everything that was on the table this past week will be made available.

To the poster saying two seasons are getting cancelled - very, very unlikely. In my opinion, they aren't far enough to cancel one season over, yet alone get stuck for another full 365 days plus. The only way this would happen is if they didn't meet for a very long time. It's only a matter of time until one of the sides contacts the other sides for a meeting. I don't know which one, though.
I agree to an extent, however it depends on what terms they want to go back to the table.

It's clear the NHL was under the assumption they'd trade EXACTLY A, B, C for D, E, F and feels like they didnt get what they wanted at all. I'm not in full agreement, but clearly they had a limit and feel they reached it, which from their explanation, was clearly made well known to the PA.

Now internally, the PA may be under alot of pressure to get back to the table. Maybe they could at least get the moderates back together(burkle and such) and get it on track.

Really though, they're angry over a year of contract limits(3 for a UFA) a few percentage points on variance and then just little stuff.

There is still alot of work to do, but one side needs to budge, and with the NHL being as stubborn as it is(which is not a great thing, but is reality), it's gotta be the PA. And with them coming that far, why not go the extra inch?

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:05 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Don't even say that! It puts it out there. That would be a nightmare.

And if he's trying to attract more clients, he's going about it the wrong way. If anything, he's chasing them away. He's an unstable guy with a twitter account who could potentially create problems between his client and that client's club. He publicly insults teams, GM's, and coaches when they don't cater to his clients. He creates rough waters when it's unnecessary. He doesn't show any respect by handling some problems behind closed doors.

I'm starting to understand more and more why Gabby dumped this guy long ago. And wouldn't ya know, part of the reason he fired Walsh was because no progress was being made during his negotiations for a new contract with the Wild. Letting that guy go was the first step that led to re-signing him days later.
It's in my nature to assume the worst in people, and to try to figure out their motives and endgames.

Walsh may just be bat-**** crazy.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:11 AM
  #65
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Interesting to hear from Hainsey on the PA's side. Seems fairly level headed.

essentially said that when this cools down a bit they could definitely pull off a deal.

we'll see, everyone needs to take a step back, and get back to talks next week.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:17 AM
  #66
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I guess the people that spent time learning all the BS that goes along with the english language want to justify it. I knew all those other kids were waisting their time studying those spelling words. I knew spellcheck was just around the corner, I swear
You mean "wasting?"

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:18 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I dont get why some players and some posters are making comments about how the NHL left a voice mail saying how its like a high school break up or what not.

Players should really be wondering more why the hell your representatives are missing calls from the main people they are negotiating with. They look like clowns. If Don Fehr is busy giving his fake "impromptu" press conference, then stevie boy should have the phone. Pretty simple.
True. But for all we know the league sent him a direct-to-voicebox msg. (which would be somewhat highscoolish)


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Old
12-08-2012, 01:20 AM
  #68
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You mean "wasting?"
Yet somehow I think everyone managed to figure out what I was trying to say

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:26 AM
  #69
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I still think that is a long,long shot to happen, the players no they would be setting them selves up for a long war that will end with them begging for mercy. They can't be that stupid can they?
Not that I think the lockout will go on for years, but if it were to go on for over a year...and a lot of the fringe markets in the States crumbled, I could see the league transitioning to a much smaller one or dissolving. The players don't seem to care about the league. They care about their pocket books but they don't get that this lockout can cost them not only money but jobs. They don't seem to be able to see the bigger picture. The league needs to be profitable in order for the players to continue to earn a good living...but I don't know if the players even care if the league is profitable.

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12-08-2012, 01:28 AM
  #70
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Can anyone confirm if the last PA counter proposal contained the leagues linkage or that Hybrid linkage the union offered previously?

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12-08-2012, 01:32 AM
  #71
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The real enemy here is Fehr and I said it from the beginning. Fehr has no interest in hockey, doesn't care 1 bit so he has no interest in seeing hockey being played. He took this job because he wanted to get back into the spotlight, he knew baseball wasn't going to have an CBA issues anytime soon and the NBA and NFL wrapped up theres. Oh so there is the NHL about to end their CBA let me get in on this.

From the get go he has bobbed and weaved and basically done whatever he can to not get a deal done.

He's shown up late to meetings.

He hasn't countered anything the league offered.

When he did counter he gave up proposals he didn't even know about. When the league asked about it he said he hasn't run the numbers yet, how do you give a proposal without running the numbers?

Then yesterday was his coup de grace. He sees that a deal is about to be signed without him being involved, this deal gives the players just about everything they asked for but Fehr seeing he can't let this end especailly without being involved decides to throw a monkey wrench into it and tells the players, hold out for more we have them. Knowing full well the owners are at their end for giving. He gives a counter offer he knows will be rejected but still decides to go on TV to talk about how the deal is all but done. He then walks away comes back and tries to play it off like "oh well the league didn't like my offer, and I am so shocked!" He has this little smirk the whole time, as if this was some big joke to him.

I can see Fehr sitting at home with his brother and friends laughing and watching his presser over and over and him going, watch what I do here, hahahahaha!

This isn't an attack on the players, I think they without knowledge sold their souls to the devil.

This isn't taking the owners blame out of this either, I think Bettman has been for mouths too pissed with Fehr to deal with him and is now dragging this out just to piss of the players for making him deal with this idiot.

But at the end of the day, if the players had brought in someone who was truly looking out for them and the game of hockey and truly wanted to get a deal done we are watching hockey right now.

Bettman seemed genuinely pissed last night that what he though was a done deal wasn't, Fehr couldn't care less, he gets his name in the papers for a few more weeks.

As others have said, they where 3 years and 20% variance difference and the PA says, lets bring in the mediators? You bring in mediators when you can't come to an agreement, not when your inches apart.

I think Fehr will continue this for as long as he can and if he ends up screwing the players for the rest of their lives, what does he care? He is leaving after this and he got his check.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:43 AM
  #72
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Donald Fehr is a piece of garbage who has no care in the world about the sport of hockey, he only cares about himself. It goes to show the intelligence level of the players to bring him in to lead them.

Best part is, if you told him the longer this goes on the less he gets paid, we'd have a deal done within hours.

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12-08-2012, 01:51 AM
  #73
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This isn't an attack on the players, I think they without knowledge sold their souls to the devil.
It's always interesting to see the 'logic' in a bubble. It's just hilarious how people just make up stuff to fit their pre conceived prejudices.

In the real world however, the PA hired Fehr specifically to counter-act Proskauer Rose and Bettman. They hired him because he's a hard-liner. They knew what they were getting in him; that's why they wanted him.

Fehr won't bend to the owners petulant tactics or pathetic attempts at theatre - and that's why the owners are so frustrated and why Bettman threw a hissy fit when he realized he couldn't just stomp his foot and get what he wanted.

Quote:
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Best part is, if you told him the longer this goes on the less he gets paid, we'd have a deal done within hours.


He's not getting paid during a lockout. Neither is Bettman for that matter.

Look forward to how that the pro-owners fanboys spin that into a reason why Fehr's holding up negotiations.

*pop*

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:56 AM
  #74
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Fehr is a joke. So tired of him moving the goalposts on the owners every which way. Sucks for him, ******** like that just pisses the owners off and makes his life harder.

Go Bettman, go NHL. **** the Pa and their juvenile tactics.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:59 AM
  #75
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Bettman has said it in one form or another 3 times now.
"Best offer" does not = "Last offer"

If you are referring to the "pulling it off the table" I believe what he means is that this last offer was pulled was the best the NHL could present the package with those exceptions they made for the players:

-Improved Pension
-Dropping all other contracting issues except the term lengths
-Make whole up to $300 mil for the 10 year cba, 8 year opt out for the pa.

Bettman clearly said they had other package options but based on what the players were saying they would like them less than this proposed offer.

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