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Ryan O'Reilly on the move? (Mod-Warning Post#200)

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Old
12-08-2012, 07:00 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
No idea. Though unless he's getting something absurd in Russia I see us bettering it fairly easy (paying him the same as Duchene for the same period would make sense when the NHL comes back).
I see this as a negoiating (sp) ploy, a way to gain some leverage in his contract talks with the Avs. I'll be surprised if he's traded.


OT: An x-file fan? I loved that show. Especially the first 6 seasons. Greatest. Show. Ever.

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12-08-2012, 07:58 AM
  #77
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
no one the Leafs have on their roster or in their pipeline is worth it.
Ryan O'Gretzky ?

I wouldn't trade Kessel, Phaneuf, Or Rielly straight up for RoR

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12-08-2012, 08:05 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Ryan O'Gretzky ?

I wouldn't trade Kessel, Phaneuf, Or Rielly straight up for RoR
And I would not be happy if he got traded for one of them either.
Kessel will ask for way too much money and is a soon to be UFA, Phaneuf is Phaneuf and really not someone I want to see on the Avs especially if weh ship out ROR and Rielly is a blue chip prospect that is surely better than Bobby Orr ever will be...

Only Leafs trade that I would consider for ROR is
Gardiner (or Rielly if you please but yeah I didn't think so) + 1st 2013 (unprotected).

Is that overpayment? Probably. Do I like something else in return? Not really.
Will ROR be sold cheaply? Forget it. If Avs management is pissed off, they will give in and sign a contract he likes ,let him play for a few months and than all of a sudden ship him out and he will wonder what just happened to him.
They won't sell low...

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12-08-2012, 08:49 AM
  #79
The Podium
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
You do realize he's a RFA, right? They don't have to sell him at all, and Radar doesn't want out. He wants to get paid what he thinks is fair. So while he might get shipped out because management sees this as a slight, they won't accept anything 'well under' market value.
He is an RFA, true, but if his antics are not for contract reasons, then Sherman has a problem. Using the KHL to threaten a leave is pretty much diminishes his value.

We have a Oilers fan, a Canuck fan and an Anaheim fan saying its good value.... Obviously we are not the delusional ones. Just think, were offering a 22 year old smooth skating defensman who was good in his own end with 30 points in his rookie season for a strong defensive forward who in his 3rd year at 21 years old score 55 points. They are not worlds apart as you may think....


Last edited by Leaf Rocket: 12-09-2012 at 08:50 AM. Reason: QDP
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12-08-2012, 08:54 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
He is an RFA, true, but if his antics are not for contract reasons, then Sherman has a problem. Using the KHL to threaten a leave is pretty much diminishes his value.
What antics?

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Old
12-08-2012, 08:56 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
What antics?
Signing a 2 year deal in the KHL.... There is no source that confirmed his reasoning, however, the out clause may suggest that if hes dealt hell come back or if Colorado offers a great deal hed come back. If he's using it as a way out then his value takes a huge hit.

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12-08-2012, 09:03 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Signing a 2 year deal in the KHL.... There is no source that confirmed his reasoning, however, the out clause may suggest that if hes dealt hell come back or if Colorado offers a great deal hed come back. If he's using it as a way out then his value takes a huge hit.
Do you usually stretch the truth this much or just when you're trying to make a favorable case for a forum debate?

Based on what his agent said, that he has a NHL out clause when the season resumes and he just wants to play with his brother in the meantime, you're probably dead wrong. His brother has a two year contract, the KHL club needed a way to validate the contract as a non-lockout agreement...

Besides, if O'Reilly has diminished value, I guess we'll lift off that Kessel guy whom has diminished value being a UFA at season's end next year if this lockout ever ends from you.

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12-08-2012, 09:04 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
no one the Leafs have on their roster or in their pipeline is worth it.

This is ridiculous. The lockout needs to end. People are basing their opinions on what they read on HF and not what they see on the ice.

It's unfortunate.


Last edited by Leaf Rocket: 12-09-2012 at 08:51 AM. Reason: QDP
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12-08-2012, 09:05 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
So you want O'Reilly without giving anything of value up? Shocker.
Leafs have more pieces of value other than those pieces mentioned. Shocker you think otherwise.

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12-08-2012, 09:05 AM
  #85
Pierce Hawthorne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Ryan O'Gretzky ?

I wouldn't trade Kessel, Phaneuf, Or Rielly straight up for RoR
LOLOL. Kessel I agree with, Phaneuf I can see the argument, but Rielly? The guy is a ******* prospect who hasnt played a game in the NHL or even in the Pros yet. He doesnt have close to the value Oreilly has right now..


And to the Leafs fans who are complaining that us Avs fans turn down every offer you guys propose to us, has the thought ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe the Avs simply have no interest in the players and proposals you are giving us? We have stated many times in this thread that the only way we move Oreilly is for a Top pairing Dman to play with EJ. Jake Gardiner is not a top pairing Dman. Simple as that.

I know, its a crazy concept that a team is not interested in trading with the Leafs, and not everything has to involve the Leafs.


As for Oreilly, Im not sure I would do any of these either, but the following players would be of interest for me in a trade for Oreilly:

OEL
M Staal
Larsson
Myers
McDonagh

And to a lesser extent Subban.

If a trade didnt involve one of these Dmen, I wouldnt have any interest in moving Oreilly.

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12-08-2012, 09:07 AM
  #86
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This is one guy I'd move Nazem Kadri in a deal for. I know Toronto would have to add more. What else? I don't know.

He's a great fit on Toronto between Lupul and Kessel. We need a defensively responsible C between those 2.

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12-08-2012, 09:09 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Jake Gardiner is not a top pairing Dman. Simple as that.
Then Ryan O'Reilly is not a top six centre and never will be.

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12-08-2012, 09:09 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Do you usually stretch the truth this much or just when you're trying to make a favorable case for a forum debate?

Based on what his agent said, that he has a NHL out clause when the season resumes and he just wants to play with his brother in the meantime, you're probably dead wrong. His brother has a two year contract, the KHL club needed a way to validate the contract as a non-lockout agreement...

Besides, if O'Reilly has diminished value, I guess we'll lift off that Kessel guy whom has diminished value being a UFA at season's end next year if this lockout ever ends from you.
Again i said "IF" there is no quote that gives his specific reason and thats a real possibility. The fact that your getting so defensive probably means its a real fear There are likely 3 reasons why he signed 2 years:

To circumvent the KHL's lockout addition limit
Leverage in contract negotiations
To force a trade

If and only if its the latter, which is a real possibility, then his value takes a huge hit.

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12-08-2012, 09:11 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Then Ryan O'Reilly is not a top six centre and never will be.
So let me get this straight...

You are seriously suggesting that as of right now, based on last season, Jake Gardiner is in your opinion a Top Pairing Dman.


WOW. I knew Gardiner was overrated by Leafs fans, but I did not know it was taken to this extreme.... WOW Im done.

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12-08-2012, 09:11 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
He's being underrated in some cases, to massively overrated. Niedermayer
He said MAXIMUM POTENTIAL. He also compared O'Rielly to Brind'Amour, which is pretty damn good too. Get over yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse21 View Post
no one the Leafs have on their roster or in their pipeline is worth it.
Don't make me laugh.

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:12 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
So let me get this straight...

You are seriously suggesting that as of right now, based on last season, Jake Gardiner is in your opinion a Top Pairing Dman.


WOW. I knew Gardiner was overrated by Leafs fans, but I did not know it was taken to this extreme.... WOW Im done.
Did you watch ANY Leafs games last year? How about any Marlies games this year? I don't think anyone has said he's a top pairing now, but he has the potential to be, which is completely reasonable.

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12-08-2012, 09:15 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
So let me get this straight...

You are seriously suggesting that as of right now, based on last season, Jake Gardiner is in your opinion a Top Pairing Dman.


WOW. I knew Gardiner was overrated by Leafs fans, but I did not know it was taken to this extreme.... WOW Im done.
No, I'm not saying that at all. But judging by your posts, you believe a top six tweener, based on last year, is worth a hell of a lot more than a young defender with potential to be a first pairing defender in the NHL.

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12-08-2012, 09:15 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Again i said "IF" there is no quote that gives his specific reason and thats a real possibility. The fact that your getting so defensive probably means its a real fear There are likely 3 reasons why he signed 2 years:

To circumvent the KHL's lockout addition limit
Leverage in contract negotiations
To force a trade

If and only if its the latter, which is a real possibility, then his value takes a huge hit.
I dunno, the fact you're so defensive about Gardiner's value must mean he isn't worth it and people need convincing.

So why are we discussing the hypothetical scenario he is trying to force a trade when there is no proof, no legitimacy to the scenario and no one will ever in a million years agree to your perceived value of him in that scenario? You don't see me posting a thread saying that Kulikov signed in the KHL and that could mean there is a slim chance he wants out of Florida and should be traded to the Avs.

Not my fault you're operating under a delusion to try to convince people O'Reilly's value is less than we see him as.

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12-08-2012, 09:19 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I dunno, the fact you're so defensive about Gardiner's value must mean he isn't worth it and people need convincing.

So why are we discussing the hypothetical scenario he is trying to force a trade when there is no proof, no legitimacy to the scenario and no one will ever in a million years agree to your perceived value of him in that scenario? You don't see me posting a thread saying that Kulikov signed in the KHL and that could mean there is a slim chance he wants out of Florida and should be traded to the Avs.

Not my fault you're operating under a delusion to try to convince people O'Reilly's value is less than we see him as.
Holy, did I say that is the guaranteed reason, that the Avs should just sell him on the spot! The difference between Kulikov and O'Rielly is that Kulikov signed a "lockout deal" a deal that requires him to return upon signing of the new CBA, O'Reilly on the other hand did not. Therefore, we are not sure of the reason, and any of the reason mentioned can be a realistic possibility. If it is the first two than his value will not change, if its the latter then it will seriously be diminished. This also has nothing to do with Gardiner, look at my first post in this thread, the fact that your trying to attack me is ridiculous even.

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12-08-2012, 09:19 AM
  #95
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He said MAXIMUM POTENTIAL. He also compared O'Rielly to Brind'Amour, which is pretty damn good too. Get over yourself.

Don't make me laugh.
If we are going on max potential I guess Colorado has a few top pairing defenseman as well coming up. Whats the point of needing Toronto's d-men?

Anybody with an ounce of reason knows Jake Gardiner isn't going to be as good as Scott Niedermayer. Thats not really a slight on Gardiner either. He was more than a 1D, franchise d-man, etc. Brindamour/O'Reilly is off, but not to the same extent.

Most audacious part of this thread, Leafs fans want arguably Colorado's most valuable player at this point, and generally have a list of untouchables. Give me a break...

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12-08-2012, 09:20 AM
  #96
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by Rob Brown View Post
Did you watch ANY Leafs games last year? How about any Marlies games this year? I don't think anyone has said he's a top pairing now, but he has the potential to be, which is completely reasonable.
Is that even a question? Its pretty much impossible to not watch the Leafs in Canada... And yes Ive even been watching the Marlies a bit thos year...

I dont doubt that he has top Pairing potential, and I didnt say he didnt. But the guy I quoted suggested he was a Top pairing Dman already.

Even so, the Avs have no interest in trading a guy like Oreilly for potential. Oreilly just led all Avs players in points, with 55 while leading the ENITRE NHL in takeaways, which I believe is the first year in 2 or 3 that Datsyuk didnt lead it... He even recieved some votes for the Selke at age 21.

Even if Oreilly were to never progress any furthur then where he's at now, he'd be considered a very good #2 C or weak #1C, and he's still only 21.

Now the same could be said for Gardiner to an extent, but Gardiner is a year or two behind Oreilly on the development charts IMO, and the Avs at this point are for the most part finnished with the rebuild and IMO wont move Oreilly unless its for someone similar to him in development. A young top pairing Dman with the poetnial to become a #1.

And for what its worth, I do think one day Gardiner will become a good Top pairing Dman, a #2, but I dont believe he has what it takes to be a #1.

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12-08-2012, 09:22 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
If we are going on max potential I guess Colorado has a few top pairing defenseman as well coming up. Whats the point of needing Toronto's d-men?

Anybody with an ounce of reason knows Jake Gardiner isn't going to be as good as Scott Niedermayer. Thats not really a slight on Gardiner either. He was more than a 1D, franchise d-man, etc. Brindamour/O'Reilly is off, but not to the same extent.

Most audacious part of this thread, Leafs fans want arguably Colorado's most valuable player at this point, and generally have a list of untouchables. Give me a break...
Our only untouchables would be our Captain, our franchise winger and our top prospect (5th overall pick). O'Reilly is not worth a 5th overall which is why Rielly was not included, however we offered our next untouchable player, which was Gardiner, who was left out of deals for more elite, however older and high paid, players. Its not like we are offering lombardi or Komisarek, the offer is of legitimate value, however Avs homers feel a need to ask for the world.

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12-08-2012, 09:23 AM
  #98
Rob Brown
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
If we are going on max potential I guess Colorado has a few top pairing defenseman as well coming up. Whats the point of needing Toronto's d-men?

Anybody with an ounce of reason knows Jake Gardiner isn't going to be as good as Scott Niedermayer. Thats not really a slight on Gardiner either. He was more than a 1D, franchise d-man, etc. Brindamour/O'Reilly is off, but not to the same extent.

Most audacious part of this thread, Leafs fans want arguably Colorado's most valuable player at this point, and generally have a list of untouchables. Give me a break...
Yeah I agree Colorado has other defenseman. I didn't bring up Gardiner nor did I say you NEEDED him, I'm just responding to the dumb comments underrating him. One can argue he won't peak at Niedermayer (and I agree), but he's still going to be a very good player. I was simply responding to those people laughing about him being offered for O'Rielly, when he has huge potential as well.

And yeah, a few people made a proposal for your MVP, but you won't move him as he's untouchable. Of course we have some untouchables too. That doesn't mean our players aren't worth it or that they shouldn't be considered untouchable just because you disagree. If you only want our untouchables, you simply say no thank you and move along. Doesn't mean our players are bad.

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12-08-2012, 09:24 AM
  #99
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
No, I'm not saying that at all. But judging by your posts, you believe a top six tweener, based on last year, is worth a hell of a lot more than a young defender with potential to be a first pairing defender in the NHL.
How was Oreilly a Top 6 tweener? He led every Avs forward in TOI and Shifts per game, and his linemate of the entire year was #2 on that list...

Not only was Oreilly a Top 6 for us last year, he was our #1 for last year, he played the PK, the PP, and against the other teams top lines, every night.

I dont understand howanyone can continue to say Oreilly was our #3C, Duchene played on the Wing for most of last year or was injured, Stas and Oreilly were our 1 and 2 C's, with Oreilly being the #1 from pretty much December on. You can make the argument that Stas was the #1C, and I wouldnt argue it as its a perfectly reasonable opinion, but Oreilly was certainly higher then McClement last year, who was our #3C last year for most of the year.

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12-08-2012, 09:26 AM
  #100
Rob Brown
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One funny point in this thread. Avs fans going on about O'Rielly leading the NHL in takeaways, implying that it's a proper way to judge him across the league. But when a young Leafs player leads the league in hits, it's dismissed and he's "overrated".

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