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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

How will Fehr explain a missed season (if that happens)?

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12-08-2012, 08:18 AM
  #1
Pepper
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How will Fehr explain a missed season (if that happens)?

As far as we know, the so-called money issues are pretty much settled (give or take few changes).

The argument is about contract issues which have only indirect effects on players, in the end players will get the 50% which has been agreed upon.

So tell me this; how would the PA get back the money they will miss (1.89B) if the season is cancelled? It would mean they would need a deal that gets them 190M MORE than current NHL proposal EVERY season for the next 10 years (or even more if the next CBA is shorter than 10 years) to justify sitting out for the season.

What are the chances of owners caving to that extent that would make up for the money lost for the players?

When will the players see the light? How many players are actually willing to lose the season given that 70% of the contracts are up in 3 years?

What are the players fighting for? Long-term contracts given only to star players?

What does your average 3rd-4th line forward or 3rd pairing d-man gain from missing the season?

If the whole season is missed, who's the one to stand up and tell PA it wasn't worth it?

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12-08-2012, 08:22 AM
  #2
Sour Shoes
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can't wait till july of 2014. that's when the players accept their 35% share of HRR.

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12-08-2012, 08:44 AM
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He'll explain that the players missing 1.89b was out of their control. That the owners continuously demanded more and more, and were not interested in negotiating. And that the players did give up more than 1B and contracting rights, and it wasn't enough.

Oddly it's pretty much what the NHL is saying. PA moved goal posts, wasn't interested in getting a deal, and when the NHL did give up more money, and dropped some of their contracting rights, it wasn't enough.

Clearly they didn't hear Modano or Guerin who that missing a season doesn't make any sense unless the NHL is trying to remove guaranteed contracts.

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12-08-2012, 08:49 AM
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ScottyBowman
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Just glad you guys aren't negotiating for me. MOD Just waive the white flag anytime a billionaire talks. Fehr does not need to explain anything. The OWNERS locked out the players and they are still locking them out according to my calendar.


Last edited by Fugu: 12-08-2012 at 11:15 AM. Reason: 'you people'
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12-08-2012, 08:51 AM
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Sour Shoes
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even JR, hardliner that he was in 2004, said the players should sign the ****ing thing.

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12-08-2012, 08:54 AM
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ScottyBowman
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Originally Posted by Sour Shoes View Post
even JR, hardliner that he was in 2004, said the players should sign the ****ing thing.
Those former hardliners are on managements payroll. JR is keeping his options open to work for an NHL team.

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12-08-2012, 08:55 AM
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I do think they should take it to a vote. I think it'd pass.

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12-08-2012, 09:01 AM
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Volcanologist
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I'm sure he's already explained it.

This fantasy world where the poor innocent players are being misled by the evil puppetmaster Fehr is just that -- a pro-owner fantasy.

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12-08-2012, 09:10 AM
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Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I'm sure he's already explained it.

This fantasy world where the poor innocent players are being misled by the evil puppetmaster Fehr is just that -- a pro-owner fantasy.
The only fantasy is that the offers from the NHL are getting better. The players are losing more money then they will ever get back in the next CBA. They have already agreed to 50/50 and lower contract rights. Waiting for another 15% of their salary to disappear for an additional year or 2 in contract rights won't make the NHL offer "better".

The best way for the players to win is to grow the HRR as high as possible. Then they will get the raises that they want. Reducing HRR by holding out to get a few extra contracting years isn't the way to make more money.

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12-08-2012, 09:13 AM
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Tra La La
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Seems to me Fehr has always wanted a court case. He hasn't been negotiating with the owners to get a deal. He's been trying to drive the players into disclaiming/decertifying.

Season will be canceled, union will decert or disclaim, courts will rule just like in NFL- negotiating ploy.Players will have lost season, 200 + will never play in the NHL again. Lockout will still be on.

As Bob Mac said yesterday the contract term limits would effect maybe 40 players.

The 10 year CBA is a good thing in everyones eyes. What happened to Fehr's crap about ending the cycle of lockouts?

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12-08-2012, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
Just glad you guys aren't negotiating for me. Seems like you people have no moral conviction and no fortitude. Just waive the white flag anytime a billionaire talks. Fehr does not need to explain anything. The OWNERS locked out the players and they are still locking them out according to my calendar.
So you expected the owners to let the players play on a broken CBA and lose more money then they already were?

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12-08-2012, 09:29 AM
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He will lay the blame exactly where it belongs: on the unbelievable stupidity, shortsightedness, and greed of ownership. They are 100% responsible for this fiasco.

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12-08-2012, 09:30 AM
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ScottyBowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffray15 View Post
So you expected the owners to let the players play on a broken CBA and lose more money then they already were?
The CBA is not broken. The owners and management of those teams losing money are broken.

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12-08-2012, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
He will lay the blame exactly where it belongs: on the unbelievable stupidity, shortsightedness, and greed of ownership. They are 100% responsible for this fiasco.
So it's the owners who deserve the blame for players missing craploads of money the will never get back?

Okay.

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12-08-2012, 09:34 AM
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Hold on guys... Lets say youre a business owner and are losing money. There is a Union for your workers and your deal is up and have to renogotiate.

You expect to keep working under the old agreement and keep losing money? No!!! You stop working and negotiate until a deal is done.

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12-08-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
The CBA is not broken. The owners and management of those teams losing money are broken.
So you don't think the players are responsible at all for taking advantage of those owners, using the last CBA?

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12-08-2012, 09:40 AM
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Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffray15 View Post
Hold on guys... Lets say youre a business owner and are losing money. There is a Union for your workers and your deal is up and have to renogotiate.

You expect to keep working under the old agreement and keep losing money? No!!! You stop working and negotiate until a deal is done.
What? You mean the owners are allowed to negotiate a more favorable deal for themselves when the CBA expires?


Lockouts will end when the cost of the lockout is more than the cost of doing business.

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12-08-2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
What? You mean the owners are allowed to negotiate a more favorable deal for themselves when the CBA expires?
Isn't the whole purpose of a CBA to renogotiate after it expires? I think some people are missing the point when blaming the Owners for the start of the lockout

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12-08-2012, 09:46 AM
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ScottyBowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffray15 View Post
Hold on guys... Lets say youre a business owner and are losing money. There is a Union for your workers and your deal is up and have to renogotiate.

You expect to keep working under the old agreement and keep losing money? No!!! You stop working and negotiate until a deal is done.
What if your company released a press release last year and stated:

Best-ever business year highlighted by record revenue

The NHL saw its fifth consecutive year of record revenue, with a projection of more than $2.9 billion by the end of the 2011 Stanley Cup Playoffs despite a challenging economy
NHL Enterprises revenue is forecasted to increase by 14.8 percent over last year

The League saw a record year for sponsorship sales with gross sales up 33 percent over last year
In February the NHL signed the biggest sponsorship deal in its history with Molson Coors in Canada and MillerCoors in the U.S., which begins in July 2011.
The NHL added Discover Card as the first presenting sponsor of the All-Star Game in a decade
The League also signed or renewed sponsorship deals with Bridgestone, Canadian Tire, Cisco Systems, Discover Card, McDonald's, Huggies, RIM/Blackberry and Tim Hortons.

Overall merchandise sales gained 15 percent
Growth was driven by strong category sales in jerseys, electronic games, lifestyle apparel, headwear, sales at big events (Winter Classic, All-Star, Heritage Classic), Chicago post-Stanley Cup sales
In-arena per-cap sales increased by 10 percent
The NHL Powered by Reebok store saw 8 percent growth
Sales on Shop.NHL.com set a new record and were up 9 percent year-over-year

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12-08-2012, 09:48 AM
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ScottyBowman
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Originally Posted by Jaffray15 View Post
So you don't think the players are responsible at all for taking advantage of those owners, using the last CBA?
I didn't know the players were offering contracts to themselves with the owners checkbook.

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12-08-2012, 09:49 AM
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Kegsey
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
Those former hardliners are on managements payroll. JR is keeping his options open to work for an NHL team.
JR has always and will always say exactly what he's thinking, regardless of who it concerns.

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12-08-2012, 09:49 AM
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Jaffray15
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That is from 2011, Scotty...

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12-08-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
I didn't know the players were offering contracts to themselves with the owners checkbook.
That isn't the point, it goes the same way in the real business world. They hire too much staff, pay their employees too much.

Regular business owners make mistakes too you know

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12-08-2012, 09:53 AM
  #24
KINGS17
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I can't see an explanation from Fehr that would make sense.

Even if the NHLPA de-certifies, what have the players won? Jobs will be lost, a good portion of them will be paid much less money.

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12-08-2012, 09:54 AM
  #25
ScottyBowman
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Originally Posted by Jaffray15 View Post
That is from 2011, Scotty...
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-nhl-revenues/

He said the NHL recovered from the work stoppage on the same day that it re-opened for business in August 2005, and has been pulling in record revenues since then. NHL revenue will hit $3.2 billion this year, a 50 percent increase in seven years since the lock-out wiped out a full season.


Even better numbers in 2012. Again, I don't understand where the CBA is broken. The only broken thing is the owners allowing cities like Atlanta, Phoenix, Carolina, Miami etc.. to get an NHL franchise in order for the owners to split the expansion fee.

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