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Ryan O'Reilly on the move? (Mod-Warning Post#200)

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:26 AM
  #101
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
And for what its worth, I do think one day Gardiner will become a good Top pairing Dman, a #2, but I dont believe he has what it takes to be a #1.


Ryan O'Reilly does not have what it takes to be a number one C. Second line centres are plentiful in the NHL. Heck, the Leafs have two or three second line centres.

If Jake Gardiner continues to improve, he'll be top two d-man and those are normally worth a hell of a lot more than second line centres.

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12-08-2012, 09:27 AM
  #102
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I see no reason O'Reilly would have for wanting to leave Colorado.

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12-08-2012, 09:28 AM
  #103
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Yeah I agree Colorado has other defenseman. I didn't bring up Gardiner nor did I say you NEEDED him, I'm just responding to the dumb comments underrating him. One can argue he won't peak at Niedermayer (and I agree), but he's still going to be a very good player. I was simply responding to those people laughing about him being offered for O'Rielly, when he has huge potential as well.

And yeah, a few people made a proposal for your MVP, but you won't move him as he's untouchable. Of course we have some untouchables too. That doesn't mean our players aren't worth it or that they shouldn't be considered untouchable just because you disagree. If you only want our untouchables, you simply say no thank you and move along. Doesn't mean our players are bad.
But yet when you guys come looking for our Untouchable in Oreilly, and we say no thank you, instead of simply moving on, you bash us for not wanting to do the deal, and then proceed to bash on Oreilly, because apparently some of you believe that by saying Oreilly is only a #3C or he only had 26 Pts last season etc, it actually has an affect on his value.

Us Avs fans have no interest in Gardiner, so NO THANK YOU to the proposal, now lets see how many actually move along.

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12-08-2012, 09:29 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
But yet when you guys come looking for our Untouchable in Oreilly, and we say no thank you, instead of simply moving on, you bash us for not wanting to do the deal, and then proceed to bash on Oreilly, because apparently some of you believe that by saying Oreilly is only a #3C or he only had 26 Pts last season etc, it actually has an affect on his value.

Us Avs fans have no interest in Gardiner, so NO THANK YOU to the proposal, now lets see how many actually move along.
I don't think anyone bashed him until your fans starting going on about how the Leafs have no one with value in their system, when it's pretty obvious that that's not true. No one bashed O'Reilly, they said he likely doesn't have potential to be a #1C.

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12-08-2012, 09:39 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Holy, did I say that is the guaranteed reason, that the Avs should just sell him on the spot! The difference between Kulikov and O'Rielly is that Kulikov signed a "lockout deal" a deal that requires him to return upon signing of the new CBA, O'Reilly on the other hand did not. Therefore, we are not sure of the reason, and any of the reason mentioned can be a realistic possibility. If it is the first two than his value will not change, if its the latter then it will seriously be diminished. This also has nothing to do with Gardiner, look at my first post in this thread, the fact that your trying to attack me is ridiculous even.
And I said his agent told us that he signed a deal with a lockout clause...

If that's what his agent said, then clearly his intentions were to sign a lockout deal.

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12-08-2012, 09:43 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Holy, did I say that is the guaranteed reason, that the Avs should just sell him on the spot! The difference between Kulikov and O'Rielly is that Kulikov signed a "lockout deal" a deal that requires him to return upon signing of the new CBA, O'Reilly on the other hand did not. Therefore, we are not sure of the reason, and any of the reason mentioned can be a realistic possibility. If it is the first two than his value will not change, if its the latter then it will seriously be diminished. This also has nothing to do with Gardiner, look at my first post in this thread, the fact that your trying to attack me is ridiculous even.
I don't think this is true, but it's very possible I'm mistaken, as always. Kulikov doesn't currently have an NHL contract, so there's nothing forcing him to return to Florida. If he doesn't want to sign a new deal in the NHL there's nothing forcing him to as far as I know, and he could happily play out his contract in the KHL. The only caveat is if he does decide to return to the NHL, the Panthers would still hold his rights. I think it's the same situation for O'Reilly, except his was a two year deal with an opt-out, whereas I assume Kulikov's was one year.

Can anyone confirm?

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12-08-2012, 09:59 AM
  #107
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I see oreilly as a Kesler type, not a #1, but a very good #2. Jordan stall, without the size/toughness, with a bit more effort?

I Like him, but as a leaf fan, we need a bonafide #1, preferably with size.

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12-08-2012, 10:01 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I don't think this is true, but it's very possible I'm mistaken, as always. Kulikov doesn't currently have an NHL contract, so there's nothing forcing him to return to Florida. If he doesn't want to sign a new deal in the NHL there's nothing forcing him to as far as I know, and he could happily play out his contract in the KHL. The only caveat is if he does decide to return to the NHL, the Panthers would still hold his rights. I think it's the same situation for O'Reilly, except his was a two year deal with an opt-out, whereas I assume Kulikov's was one year.

Can anyone confirm?
Kulikov signed for 1, and it was openly refered to as a lockout deal, O'Reilly for 2 and it has a "verbal agreement to let him leave"...

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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
And I said his agent told us that he signed a deal with a lockout clause...

If that's what his agent said, then clearly his intentions were to sign a lockout deal.
He does not have a lockout clause, he has a verbal agreement, not to mention the verbal agreement means squat. Maybe if hes dealt hell use his "verbal agreement" to return to his new team. Again, your getting very defensive, im not saying this is the situation for sure but it is very possible.

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12-08-2012, 10:39 AM
  #109
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Fayne and a 2nd? Fayne was pretty much our #1/2 defenseman last season.

Great all around defenseman with room to grow his offensive game. Went up against the other teams best players nightly. Solid at all aspects of the game and is still very young. Fluid skater, good passer, deceptive shot. I think it's a good hockey trade. He's a softer Hamhuis IMO.


Last edited by Oroku Saki*: 12-08-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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Old
12-08-2012, 10:45 AM
  #110
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I'd consider using a 4th for O'Reilly. Our AHL team could use some depth.

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12-08-2012, 11:25 AM
  #111
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Come on NHL, there are 28 other teams in this league, why does the Leafs have to be the ones every **** time in these threads.

Honestly the only player I would want from Leafs is Rielly, but we already have two OFD in Elliott and Barrie, who probably won't be as good, but not a substantial difference in talent.


Last edited by S E P H: 12-08-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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Old
12-08-2012, 11:27 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Yes, he entered the NHL as an 18 year old 2nd round draft pick, and you're trying to use that against him??? s You just lost a lot of credibility. Where was Gardiner as an 18 year old....So, you're telling me Gardiner could turn into Scott Niedermayer? Yes, I can see where the problem is. I'm glad you think he will actually be that good. You'll probably be very disappointed. I see him as a #2 defensman with excellent skating ability who can move the puck. But if you wish to believe he can be Niedermayer, our discussion is at an end, since I don't think he will ever approach that. Mighty gutsy of you comparing Gardiner, after 1 year, to a player who won 4 stanley cups, a Norris, Conn Smyth, Olympic gold, World championship, Memorial cup, and WJ championship. In fact, he is the only player in history to do that. You just compared Gardiner to one of the greatest defensman of all time...and you expect me to believe you?? Yeah, I'm done talking to you. You think Gardiner can turn into that? You'll be lucky if he ever accomplishes half of what Niedermayer did. What a joke. And you're calling me the high and mighty one? Delusions of grandeur....
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post


Yeah, while I think the Avs fans might be selling Gardiner short, calling Jake the second coming of Niedermayer is ridiculous.
Why? The notion of an actually talented player on the Leafs with high end potential is that unfathomable to you?

Furthermore, I'm talking about top end potential in terms of what both our players could project into at absolute peak.

I mean if you want to talk about what these players are right now and throw potential out the window, Ryan O'Reilly is a ****ing 18 goal scorer with a career high of 55 points. Jake Gardiner as a rookie would have led your team in scoring from the defense.

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12-08-2012, 11:31 AM
  #113
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He would be a good 2C behind RNH, I think COL should trade away Stastney to get the dman that they need, he has a big cap hit and would look good in TO.

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12-08-2012, 11:31 AM
  #114
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Big gulf between 'being talented' and being Niedermayer; even with high-end potential.

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12-08-2012, 11:31 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Why? The notion of an actually talented player on the Leafs with high end potential is that unfathomable to you?

Furthermore, I'm talking about top end potential in terms of what both our players could project into at absolute peak.

I mean if you want to talk about what these players are right now and throw potential out the window, Ryan O'Reilly is a ****ing 18 goal scorer with a career high of 55 points. Jake Gardiner as a rookie would have led your team in scoring from the defense.
Please tell the whole story
A ****in 18 goal scorer with a career high of 55 points that leads the league in takeaways, played Selke worthy all around and is a half year YOUNGER (plays in the league for 3 years now) than your future Scott Niedermayer . No wait that was Reilly. What will Gardiner be? The next Rafalski?

Can we please outlaw comments and most importantly proposals from Leafs fans on Avs players and vice versa?
Please?

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12-08-2012, 11:31 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Come on NHL, there are 28 other teams in this league, why does the Leafs have to be the ones every **** time in these threads.

Honestly the only player I would want from Leafs is Rielly, but we already have two OFD in Elliott and Barrie, who probably won't be as good, but nothing substantial.
Maybe no one really cares about Ryan O'Reilly?

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12-08-2012, 11:35 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
We have a Oilers fan, a Canuck fan and an Anaheim fan saying its good value.... Obviously we are not the delusional ones. Just think, were offering a 22 year old smooth skating defensman who was good in his own end with 30 points in his rookie season for a strong defensive forward who in his 3rd year at 21 years old score 55 points. They are not worlds apart as you may think....
Ok...so having fans of neutral teams agreeing with you makes you right? Because the person you just replied to was a Blues fan. Yay! We are right because a neutral fan agreed with us!
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He said MAXIMUM POTENTIAL. He also compared O'Rielly to Brind'Amour, which is pretty damn good too. Get over yourself.
Yeah...I already stated earlier I doubt O'Reilly will ever match some of the years Brind'Amour did, but mentioning Gardiner in the same sentence as Niedermayer....Gardiner is so overrated its not even funny. One 30 point season does not guarantee success, sorry. The O'Reilly/Brind'Amour comparison is off, but the Gardiner/Niedermayer one is a joke. Stop being so defensive. I never said Gardiner could not turn into a top pairing defensman. I just don't think he will ever approach Niedermayer, and I think everybody except a few Leaf fans will agree with me.

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And yeah, a few people made a proposal for your MVP, but you won't move him as he's untouchable. Of course we have some untouchables too. That doesn't mean our players aren't worth it or that they shouldn't be considered untouchable just because you disagree. If you only want our untouchables, you simply say no thank you and move along. Doesn't mean our players are bad.
Excellent. Now take you're own advice. Realize we won't be moving someone who we consider to be untouchable at this point, say no thank you, and move along.

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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Why? The notion of an actually talented player on the Leafs with high end potential is that unfathomable to you?

Furthermore, I'm talking about top end potential in terms of what both our players could project into at absolute peak.

I mean if you want to talk about what these players are right now and throw potential out the window, Ryan O'Reilly is a ****ing 18 goal scorer with a career high of 55 points. Jake Gardiner as a rookie would have led your team in scoring from the defense.
High end potential? Of course Gardiner has high end potential. I easily think he can be a top pairing defensman. Get off you high horse and stop playing the pity card with the Leafs. Boohoohoo, everyone underrates you're players. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Back on topic. Does Gardiner have high end potential? No one ever denied it. Does he have the potential to be one of the best defensman of all time? Get real. If you honestly believe that, then this is my last response to you. What a laughable comparison. Did you ever even watch Niedermayer??? Apparently you don't understand the difference between high end potential, and Scott Niedermayer.


Yes, O'Reilly is a 21 year old, who entered the league as an 18 year old, coming off a 55 point season and leading the league in takeaways. Gardiner is a 22 year old defensman coming off a 30 point season. Wow! What an amazing player. Yes, its impressive, but stop acting like he is some sort of god.


Now, can we please turn this back into an actual O'Reilly thread, not another Avs center to Toronto thread.


Last edited by Leaf Rocket: 12-09-2012 at 08:55 AM. Reason: QDP
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12-08-2012, 11:36 AM
  #118
The Podium
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Please tell the whole story
A ****in 18 goal scorer with a career high of 55 points that leads the league in takeaways, played Selke worthy all around and is a half year YOUNGER (plays in the league for 3 years now) than your future Scott Niedermayer . No wait that was Reilly. What will Gardiner be? The next Rafalski?

Can we please outlaw comments and most importantly proposals from Leafs fans on Avs players and vice versa?
Please?
Why are you getting so mad? As of right now we offered a young #3D for a young 2b C. Sure O'Reilly lead the league in take aways, yet Gardiner at the same time lead the league in rookie defensive scoring. A case can be made for both players and their values are more or less the same. The fact that your fan base is getting so worked up is ridiculous. Sure the Neidermeyer comparison is a little off, but it has been made by scouts and media personnel when talking about Gardiner, if we translate it to todays NHL it would be like a Keith for Kesler type deal. The values there, the over reaction is incredible.

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12-08-2012, 11:38 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Maybe no one really cares about Ryan O'Reilly?
If that is the case, then I will be extremely happy to keep his rights and wait until he signs a new deal with us.

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12-08-2012, 11:38 AM
  #120
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Ok...so having fans of neutral teams agreeing with you makes you right? Because the person you just replied to was a Blues fan. Yay! We are right because a neutral fan agreed with us!
If neutral fans see value, it like means the value is there. The fact that your fan base is laughing at the notion that Gardiner is the same calibre player as O'Reilly at this very moment is ridiculous considering multiple neutral fans agree.

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12-08-2012, 11:40 AM
  #121
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Big gulf between 'being talented' and being Niedermayer; even with high-end potential.
Would you be willing to trade Fowler?

Maybe like Fowler+Winger/centre for ROR+Defense prospect?

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12-08-2012, 11:40 AM
  #122
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If neutral fans see value, it like means the value is there. The fact that your fan base is laughing at the notion that Gardiner is the same calibre player as O'Reilly at this very moment is ridiculous considering multiple neutral fans agree.
Who laughed at it...? Many Avs fans, including myself have stated the value is their...but were just not interested. If you're talking about the person you replied to, that was not an Avs fan.

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12-08-2012, 11:47 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Would you be willing to trade Fowler?

Maybe like Fowler+Winger/centre for ROR+Defense prospect?
No reason for us to do that. At this point, we're probably looking to fill the 2C role internally.

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12-08-2012, 11:49 AM
  #124
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Who laughed at it...? Many Avs fans, including myself have stated the value is their...but were just not interested. If you're talking about the person you replied to, that was not an Avs fan.
Look through the thread...

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12-08-2012, 11:51 AM
  #125
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Excellent. Now take you're own advice. Realize we won't be moving someone who we consider to be untouchable at this point, say no thank you, and move along.
Yeah, I wasn't fighting it though. I wasn't getting all worked up. I was just responding to the uneducated posts surrounding Gardiner. I don't care if you would take him or not. It was Avs fans getting all defensive and worked up acting like Gardiner isn't fair value.

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