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Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): The "Ruf"fled Offseason Thread

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Old
12-07-2012, 08:10 PM
  #626
zarley zelepukin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Who said the eye test didn't fail? but I can tell you that I trust that more than trying to mathematically quantify someone's range in the field.
In this case, and many others, the two sides are in agreement that this guy is a very, very good fielder. I follow the Phillies' minor leagues quite a bit and I've never read anything from scouts that suggests Gillies is as good a fielder as Revere.

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12-07-2012, 10:26 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Why, are only the first two batters allowed to steal bases?
You bat him in the 8 hole, he's going to be on base with the pitcher to bat. The pitcher's not going to drive him in, its a wasted sacrifice, and your not going to risk running him with 2 outs and have the pitcher leadoff an inning if he gets thrown out. You can do it in the AL with no automatic out, but not in the NL. If he bats 8th you take away what he does best. Its 1 or 2 for him barring a slump.

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12-07-2012, 11:00 PM
  #628
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Interesting:

Quote:
The Red Sox approached the Phillies about a trade of Jacoby Ellsbury for Cliff Lee, but the Phillies said that Lee wasn't available.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#6MId6F5BlqIvqUxJ.99

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:27 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Interesting:
Yeah saw that. That's a terrible proposal. Ellsbury has one year left and is going to the market no matter what.

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:58 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
In this case, and many others, the two sides are in agreement that this guy is a very, very good fielder.
Utley and Rollins are going to need to go 100ft into the outfield for Revere to hit the cut-off from the wall. He can't be a plus fielder with a noodle arm no matter what his range is.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:16 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Interesting:
Phillies should have jumped all over that...awful.

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12-08-2012, 07:51 AM
  #632
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Phillies should have jumped all over that...awful.
Eh I don't know. Ellsbury has had one full season out of the last 3 years, and he's really only had that one good year. He's also shown no power in his career except for that one season where he had 30 HR's, which means it really could have been a fluke. And the fact that he is a FA next year means the Phils could be trading Cliff Lee with nothing to show for it again.

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12-08-2012, 09:48 AM
  #633
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As a lifelong Rangers fan, I can tell you now Young is terrible at 3B..he has no range. He also used to be a very clutch hitter, but noticed a decline in that ability as well. Young is a great clubhouse presence though, so, just hope the Phils dont trade too much for him.

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12-08-2012, 09:54 AM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Phillies should have jumped all over that...awful.
No way.... Why do you think that?

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Old
12-08-2012, 10:23 AM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Phillies should have jumped all over that...awful.
It should have been contingent on a contract extension, which would never have happened with a Scott Boras client.

And:

Quote:
11:19am: The Rangers expect a decision from Young today but do not know which way he is leaning, reports Jeff Wilson of The Fort Worth Star-Telegram (on Twitter).
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#xIuVEgdSVkKHHI6Q.99

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12-08-2012, 11:48 AM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Eh I don't know. Ellsbury has had one full season out of the last 3 years, and he's really only had that one good year. He's also shown no power in his career except for that one season where he had 30 HR's, which means it really could have been a fluke. And the fact that he is a FA next year means the Phils could be trading Cliff Lee with nothing to show for it again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
No way.... Why do you think that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
It should have been contingent on a contract extension, which would never have happened with a Scott Boras client.

And:
Meh, perhaps I'm on the Ellsbury war-path a bit too much. Overlooked his injury prone-ness. But if he can stay healthy and have seasons like he did in 2011...you don't pass that up. And I've totally advocated avoiding Boras clients AND trading Cliff Lee again...but I think I'd do it for a healthy Ellsbury.

edit: of course it puts Cliff Lee and Shane Victorino back on the same team

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12-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #637
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I think people are being too hard on Cliff Lee (not necessarily on here, but on WIP and general people I talk to). He is one year removed from being a Cy Young finalist and despite his W-L record last year, he wasn't as bad as people are making him about to be. I have no interest in trading him unless someone overpays because they are desperate.

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:54 PM
  #638
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Done Deal

Quote:
Phillies Acquire Michael Young
By Mike Axisa [December 8 at 12:49pm CST]
The Phillies have acquired Michael Young from the Rangers according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today (Twitter links). Young will receive $1.2MM in benefits in exchange for waiving his no-trade clause, but Nightengale says (on Twitter) he told the Phillies he did not want an extension.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#SbxDJBcziDQuFXxZ.99
Quote:
12:34pm: Young has indicated a willingness to accept the trade but is likely to seek some sort of compensation for waiving his no-trade clause, reports Evan Grant of The Dallas Morning News. There are still some financial issues to work out before the deal is final.

Grant says the Rangers would receive righty Josh Lindblom and a minor leaguer in the trade. Lindblom, 25, pitched to a 3.55 ERA with 8.9 K/9 and 4.4 BB/9 in 71 innings this season. The Phillies acquired him from the Dodgers at the deadline in the Shane Victorino trade. The minor leaguer is believed to be right-hander Lisalverto Bonilla. The 22-year-old posted a 1.55 ERA with 12.4 K/9 and 4.1 BB/9 in 46 1/3 relief innings split between Single-A and Double-A in 2012.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#PiYpCYAjwkZ2KqHe.99
I hate that it's Bonilla, but am definitely ok with Lindblom.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:08 PM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Done Deal





I hate that it's Bonilla, but am definitely ok with Lindblom.
if true i'm ok with it but i'm not very optimistic young will bounce back meaning phils are still in serious need of some power.

any ideas/rumors about acquiring a set-up man? phils are running low on expendable assets though. my guess is if anyone else is moved it will be strictly bullpen pieces and maybe one of catching prospects.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:12 PM
  #640
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Im not huge on this Young trade, hopefully he doesnt play everyday. But thankfully they got rid of Linblom, he was terrible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think people are being too hard on Cliff Lee (not necessarily on here, but on WIP and general people I talk to). He is one year removed from being a Cy Young finalist and despite his W-L record last year, he wasn't as bad as people are making him about to be. I have no interest in trading him unless someone overpays because they are desperate.
if you go by the advanced metrics he was in the top 5 in just about every category. He had a very good season that masked over bad luck and and loing record. personally I would never trade Lee for Ellsburys. First Im not sold on Doc being a top 10 pitcher. Secondly Ellsbury will be 30 nexr year, is injury prone, and is a free agent as a Boras client. If it were for Upton Straight up Id think about it.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:14 PM
  #641
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Boo. We're taking Young off their hands and giving them a ML reliever and a good prospect to boot. In hopes that Young won't be a negative value for us.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:15 PM
  #642
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Really hoping a big move is made soon. We got a center fielder and 3rd baseman for fairly cheap in terms of money.

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:52 PM
  #643
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Nice.. Young will be good here I think.

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Old
12-08-2012, 02:36 PM
  #644
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Really hoping a big move is made soon. We got a center fielder and 3rd baseman for fairly cheap in terms of money.
Agreed, but I doubt we'll see it. Probably looking at one more BP arm and a 5th-6th starter type.

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Old
12-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #645
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Agreed, but I doubt we'll see it. Probably looking at one more BP arm and a 5th-6th starter type.
I dunno, Amaro keeps saying they still have financial flexibility. I don't like either Revere or Young very much but they fill holes cheaply, gotta figure they are going to whip out the checkbook eventually.

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Old
12-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #646
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I just hope they don't wipe out the farm again.

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Old
12-08-2012, 03:42 PM
  #647
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They got god awful production out of 3b last year (had a .672). I highly doubt Young can do any worse. If he doesn, oh well. They gave up a bullpen arm (Bonilla) which arent that hard to find compared to many other postions.

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Old
12-08-2012, 03:52 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by Justified View Post
They got god awful production out of 3b last year (had a .672). I highly doubt Young can do any worse. If he doesn, oh well. They gave up a bullpen arm (Bonilla) which arent that hard to find compared to many other postions.
God awful offensive production with above average defensive production... now they'll have average (at best) offensive production and god awful defensive production. The fact that they aren't covering much of the salary at least brings my mood on the deal from annoyed to ambivalent, though.

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12-08-2012, 04:14 PM
  #649
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Seems a low-risk, modest reward sort of deal, no?

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12-08-2012, 04:57 PM
  #650
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Quote:
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Seems a low-risk, modest reward sort of deal, no?
Yeah. Considering Lindblom was a disaster and Bonilla was a reliever in A ball (I think,) I don't see the issue with this deal at all.

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