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Latvian hockey on the rise?

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:07 PM
  #76
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Anyways I think Mustukovs is a solid 3rd goalie choice for the Latvian NT (as he was this year). With an injury to either Masalskis or Jucers he might feature in one of two games.

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12-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #77
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In other news guy that`s definitely on the rise is Robby Lipsbergs guy scored his 15th of the season last night and is THE top scoring rookie of WHL even beeing infront of guys like Dreisatl and Bjorkstrand

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12-08-2012, 01:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
In other news guy that`s definitely on the rise is Robby Lipsbergs guy scored his 15th of the season last night and is THE top scoring rookie of WHL even beeing infront of guys like Dreisatl and Bjorkstrand
Haha looks like a Latvian-Danish-German battle for best rookie in the WHL.
Roberts Lipsbergs 15G 13A in the 30 matches
Oliver Bjørkstrand 14G 13A in 28 matches.
Leon Draisaitl 9G 18A in 30 matches.

Lipsbergs is 1994 class, while Bjørkstrand and Draisaitl is 1995 class - so a little age advantage for Latvia. But then Oliver Bjørkstrand has played 2 games less.

WHL rookie list:
http://whl.ca/stats/show/type/top_sc.../242/subtype/4

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12-08-2012, 01:34 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
Haha looks like a Latvian-Danish-German battle for best rookie in the WHL.
Roberts Lipsbergs 15G 13A in the 30 matches
Oliver Bjørkstrand 14G 13A in 28 matches.
Leon Draisaitl 9G 18A in 30 matches.

Lipsbergs is 1994 class, while Bjørkstrand and Draisaitl is 1995 class - so a little age advantage for Latvia. But then Oliver Bjørkstrand has played 2 games less.

WHL rookie list:
http://whl.ca/stats/show/type/top_sc.../242/subtype/4
I have the feeling Roberts has shot at beeing drafted this year as an overager,guys doing great in the W

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12-08-2012, 01:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
I have the feeling Roberts has shot at beeing drafted this year as an overager,guys doing great in the W
I don't really know how common it is to draft overagers, but it seems to me that they are often drafted fairly low?!

But hey drafted is drafted....Patrick Hörnqvist (7'th round 230 out of 230 in 2005) and Jannik Hansen (9'th round - 287 out of 291 in 2004) shows that you can make no matter when you are drafted.

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12-08-2012, 01:56 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
I don't really know how common it is to draft overagers, but it seems to me that they are often drafted fairly low?!

But hey drafted is drafted....Patrick Hörnqvist (7'th round 230 out of 230 in 2005) and Jannik Hansen (9'th round - 287 out of 291 in 2004) shows that you can make no matter when you are drafted.
Yes he would be 5th-6th round choise,but whatever,as you said, beeing drafted is the important part,if you have the talent and the skills you will play in the NHL. another example is Jamie Benn he was drafted 5th round 129 overall but still came a-okay for Dallas Stars http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=15399
Theres also this guy Henrik Zetterberg you might have heard of him ,he was drafted 7th round

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12-08-2012, 01:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Yes he would be 5th-6th round choise,but whatever,as you said, beeing drafted is the important part,if you have the talent and the skills you will play in the NHL. another example is Jamie Benn he was drafted 5th round 129 overall but still came a-okay for Dallas Stars http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=15399
Have any latvian players recently (since 2000) been playing in NHL without being drafted?

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12-08-2012, 02:04 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Justinov View Post
Have any latvian players recently (since 2000) been playing in NHL without being drafted?
No,pretty much all have been drafted Bartulis,Kulda,Daugavins all have been drafted

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12-08-2012, 02:12 PM
  #84
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No,pretty much all have been drafted Bartulis,Kulda,Daugavins all have been drafted
So we can conclude it's of the utmost importance!

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12-08-2012, 02:14 PM
  #85
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So we can conclude it's of the utmost importance!
Yeah pretty much.

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12-12-2012, 10:24 AM
  #86
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Have any latvian players recently (since 2000) been playing in NHL without being drafted?
Policeman Raitis Ivanans. Never drafted (surprise surprise...).

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12-19-2012, 09:50 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Buddhaa View Post
Policeman Raitis Ivanans. Never drafted (surprise surprise...).
Also Peteris Skudra and Herberts Vasiljevs (a total of 150 and 51 games respectively) were never drafted, played in early 2000s.


Last edited by GX: 12-20-2012 at 07:29 AM.
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12-20-2012, 04:04 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Buddhaa View Post
Policeman Raitis Ivanans. Never drafted (surprise surprise...).
Lol, my friend is probably the biggest Ivanans fan in the world. He has a signed Ivanans Heat jersey too

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12-30-2012, 01:24 PM
  #89
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Seeing how our u-20 is playing against the giants like Sweden,Finland etc got me thinking have we reached our junior development ceiling? Will we ever be able to get into u-20 1/4 for example with the curent developmental system? Is our junior player number simply too low to ever achieve something like that?
Also does anyone have any data of young players increasing/decreasing for hockey in latvia?and does anyone think that our developmental system is wrong or that we should change something or are we on the right track?

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12-30-2012, 05:03 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Seeing how our u-20 is playing against the giants like Sweden,Finland etc got me thinking have we reached our junior development ceiling? Will we ever be able to get into u-20 1/4 for example with the curent developmental system? Is our junior player number simply too low to ever achieve something like that?
Also does anyone have any data of young players increasing/decreasing for hockey in latvia?and does anyone think that our developmental system is wrong or that we should change something or are we on the right track?
With a population barely above 2 million and a population which is decreasing, Yes, it seems we might have reached the ceiling, but I doubt there was ever a point to think about u20 in this way. Our main focus was, is and will always be the WC and the Olympics.

Despite how talented you think Bukarts is, the only reason why we have a 16 year old in U20 is because we lack enough junior players to replace him. One year we might be able to combine a solid offensive 1st and 2nd line, but no defense at all; then maybe in 5 years we can have a good defense but almost nothing good on our offense. To think that we could in a near future have a solid offensive/ defensive team which with skill and not by luck could reach 1/4 is very unlikely. It's something we shouldn't even dream about.

I think our development system has improved over the years, but the fact that we have someone like Tambijevs as our head coach for u20 alone proofs that things aren't as good as they should be. But having a good development system wouldn't change the fact how small our population is. Having the best development system in the world won't be enough to reach 1/4 finals if we don't have enough players to choose from.

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12-31-2012, 12:32 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by DrStrangelife View Post
With a population barely above 2 million and a population which is decreasing, Yes, it seems we might have reached the ceiling, but I doubt there was ever a point to think about u20 in this way. Our main focus was, is and will always be the WC and the Olympics.

Despite how talented you think Bukarts is, the only reason why we have a 16 year old in U20 is because we lack enough junior players to replace him. One year we might be able to combine a solid offensive 1st and 2nd line, but no defense at all; then maybe in 5 years we can have a good defense but almost nothing good on our offense. To think that we could in a near future have a solid offensive/ defensive team which with skill and not by luck could reach 1/4 is very unlikely. It's something we shouldn't even dream about.

I think our development system has improved over the years, but the fact that we have someone like Tambijevs as our head coach for u20 alone proofs that things aren't as good as they should be. But having a good development system wouldn't change the fact how small our population is. Having the best development system in the world won't be enough to reach 1/4 finals if we don't have enough players to choose from.
This is a quality post.

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12-31-2012, 03:58 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DrStrangelife View Post
With a population barely above 2 million and a population which is decreasing, Yes, it seems we might have reached the ceiling, but I doubt there was ever a point to think about u20 in this way. Our main focus was, is and will always be the WC and the Olympics.

Despite how talented you think Bukarts is, the only reason why we have a 16 year old in U20 is because we lack enough junior players to replace him. One year we might be able to combine a solid offensive 1st and 2nd line, but no defense at all; then maybe in 5 years we can have a good defense but almost nothing good on our offense. To think that we could in a near future have a solid offensive/ defensive team which with skill and not by luck could reach 1/4 is very unlikely. It's something we shouldn't even dream about.

I think our development system has improved over the years, but the fact that we have someone like Tambijevs as our head coach for u20 alone proofs that things aren't as good as they should be. But having a good development system wouldn't change the fact how small our population is. Having the best development system in the world won't be enough to reach 1/4 finals if we don't have enough players to choose from.
I agree,but our current junior count is what? 2000 juniors? even with 2 million population we still CAN get it up to say 4000 junior players. That would really help,our hockey federation needs to use every resource they can get,they need to attract even MORE kids to hockey.


Last edited by BalticWarrior: 12-31-2012 at 04:11 AM.
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12-31-2012, 04:48 AM
  #93
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Lai arī cik tas bēdīgi nebūtu, lielākā daļa hokeja skolu kā savu publiski nedeklerēto prioritāti ir izvēlējusies naudas slaukšanu no vecākiem pretī dodot tikai ilūziju, ka viņus uztrauc bērnu izaugsme. Daudzi Jums aiz muguras par Jums smejas, ka naudiņa tik ripo un Jūs vedat savus lolojumus pie "treneriem ar trīsdesmit gadu stāžu", kur 20-30 bērnus pat desmit gadu vecumā iedzen uz stundu vienā zonā un neviens pie viņiem pat nepieiet, lai dotu kādus uzdevumus.
Un tad rudenī atnāk uz HS Dinamo 11 gadīgs bērns un pēc pirmā treniņa raud, ka iepriekšējos trīs savas karjeras gadus ir velti pavadījis. Viņam nav iemācīts ne pareizi piespēles atdot slidojot, ne gaitā mest pa vārtiem, par pareizi slidošanas tehniku nemaz nerunāsim.
Tāpēc, kamēr Jūs vecāki, nesāksiet no savām hokeja skolām kategoriskā veidā pieprasīt normālu (es šeit nerunāju par kvalitatīvu) treniņprocesu savām atvasēm, tikmēr nav nekāda jēga no diskusijām par kvantitātes ietekmi uz kvalitāti. Tikmēr katrs jauns audzēknis būs tikai kārtējā naudas zīme hokeja "biznesmeņu" kabatās.

Found this on SC,does anyone have any information on this? Is situation in latvian hockey schools this bad? are coaches just trying to get money from parents and not actually train our new talents?(sorry i was not bothered to translate)

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12-31-2012, 05:24 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Helo View Post
Lai arī cik tas bēdīgi nebūtu, lielākā daļa hokeja skolu kā savu publiski nedeklerēto prioritāti ir izvēlējusies naudas slaukšanu no vecākiem pretī dodot tikai ilūziju, ka viņus uztrauc bērnu izaugsme. Daudzi Jums aiz muguras par Jums smejas, ka naudiņa tik ripo un Jūs vedat savus lolojumus pie "treneriem ar trīsdesmit gadu stāžu", kur 20-30 bērnus pat desmit gadu vecumā iedzen uz stundu vienā zonā un neviens pie viņiem pat nepieiet, lai dotu kādus uzdevumus.
Un tad rudenī atnāk uz HS Dinamo 11 gadīgs bērns un pēc pirmā treniņa raud, ka iepriekšējos trīs savas karjeras gadus ir velti pavadījis. Viņam nav iemācīts ne pareizi piespēles atdot slidojot, ne gaitā mest pa vārtiem, par pareizi slidošanas tehniku nemaz nerunāsim.
Tāpēc, kamēr Jūs vecāki, nesāksiet no savām hokeja skolām kategoriskā veidā pieprasīt normālu (es šeit nerunāju par kvalitatīvu) treniņprocesu savām atvasēm, tikmēr nav nekāda jēga no diskusijām par kvantitātes ietekmi uz kvalitāti. Tikmēr katrs jauns audzēknis būs tikai kārtējā naudas zīme hokeja "biznesmeņu" kabatās.

Found this on SC,does anyone have any information on this? Is situation in latvian hockey schools this bad? are coaches just trying to get money from parents and not actually train our new talents?(sorry i was not bothered to translate)
Without any specific names of the coaches, clubs or the so called evil hockey businessmen - the post seems meaningless , unless someone on this forum knows anything more about it. If the post is the truth, it still might refer just to one club/ coach and not our whole development system.

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12-31-2012, 05:27 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by DrStrangelife View Post
Without any specific names of the coaches, clubs or the so called evil hockey businessmen - the post seems meaningless , unless someone on this forum knows anything more about it. If the post is the truth, it still might refer just to one club/ coach and not our whole development system.
Yeah i thought so too,cause you know maybe someone has more detail and info than me.

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01-01-2013, 10:51 AM
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Yeah i thought so too,cause you know maybe someone has more detail and info than me.
Well, I think, the first thing the parents should do, before sending their kid to a hockey school, is check, whether the coaches are even licensed by the federation. Because the number of licensed coaches in Latvia is very, very small.

Speaking of examples, there was always the infamous Ogre hockey school. HK Ogre played in LAČ in 09/10 and 10/11, with Fanduls and Nekrasov being the coaches. The local municipality was giving money for kids hockey development, yet, in the same time, there were number of Russian players on the roster, who PAID to the coaches to be in the club. This story doesn't tell anything about Fanduls/Nekrasov being bad junior coaches, but it tells a lot about what their main interests were and, well, also about their attitude.

With the crisis now being over, I hope the federation will push a few cities to build new hockey rinks (Jēkabpils, for example, was one of those cities that planned to build a rink some 5 years ago and never did) - there are still a dozen of cities of decent size (pretty much anywhere in Latgale) where kids can't play hockey. Then again, the federation should probably put a bigger emphasize on the education of the coaches (I guess the federation could easily provide some scholarships in LSPA with an agreement that the student will later work, for example, at least 5 years in junior hockey).

What I probably want the most, is to get Latvian league back to the state it was in 2008, when games were regularly broadcasted on LTV7, where there was intrigue, fans in the stands, no discussion about, whether the league is professional or not, which all ended, when Lipmans allowed the top four clubs to play in Belarus and don't give a single **** about LAČ. The league, I suppose, was able to attract more kids to hockey, helped to create more or less proper hockey pyramids (Metalurgs or Latgale, before it dropped out of LAČ). I think the league needs a push, with some two big Latvian companies (LMT, Laima, Grindex (!), etc.) putting in ~200-300k/season in a city (Ventspils, Jūrmala, Tukums) where, despite a rink, a pro club has never really existed before. And, obviously, not allow the likes of Juniors Riga and other junior teams play in the league - probably, with the number of competetive junior players being so low, the federation could establish a merged U20/U18 league.

Sorry for bursting out.


Last edited by GX: 01-01-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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01-01-2013, 10:58 AM
  #97
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Well, I think, the first thing the parents should do, before sending their kid to a hockey school, is check, whether the coaches are even licensed by the federation. Because the number of licensed coaches in Latvia is very, very small.

Speaking of examples, there was always the infamous Ogre hockey school. HK Ogre played in LAČ in 09/10 and 10/11, with Fanduls and Nekrasov being the coaches. The local municipality was giving money for kids hockey development, yet, in the same time, there were number of Russian players on the roster, who PAID to the coaches to be in the club. This story doesn't tell anything about Fanduls/Nekrasov being bad junior coaches, but it tells a lot about what their main interests were and, well, also about their attitude.

With the crisis now being over, I hope the federation will push a few cities to build new hockey rinks (Jēkabpils, for example, was one of those cities that planned to build a rink some 5 years ago and never did) - there are still a dozen of cities of decent size (pretty much anywhere in Latgale) where kids can't play hockey. Then again, the federation should probably put a bigger emphasize on the education of the coaches (I guess the federation could easily provide some scholarships in LSPA with an agreement that the student will later work, for example, at least 5 years in junior hockey).

What I probably want the most, is to get Latvian league back to the state it was in 2008, when games were regularly broadcasted on LTV7, where there was intrigue, fans in the stands, no discussion about, whether the league is professional or not, which all ended, when Lipmans allowed the top four clubs to play in Belarus and don't give a single **** about LAČ. The league, I suppose, was able to attract more kids to hockey, helped to create more or less proper hockey pyramids (Metalurgs or Latgale, before it dropped out of LAČ). I think the league needs a push, with some two big Latvian companies (LMT, Laima, Grindex (!), etc.) putting in ~200-300k/season in a city (Ventspils, Jūrmala, Tukums) where, despite a rink, a pro club has never really existed before. And, obviously, not allow the likes of Juniors Riga and other junior teams play in the league - probably, with the number of competetive junior players being so low, the federation could establish a merged U20/U18 league.

Sorry for bursting out.
Its all well and good in theory but how could you get Latvian league back to the it was in 2008? we just dont have the player resources

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01-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #98
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Its all well and good in theory but how could you get Latvian league back to the it was in 2008? we just dont have the player resources
Well I feel, that's not really true. I'm not in a mood for a longer post, so I'll only say, that, if Ukraine can get a league going with laughable player their resources, then we certainly can.

Let's just think about how many players we have playing abroad (not in DR) over the age, lets say, 18? Theoretically how many ~25 man rosters we could assemble? Add to that Liepaja, which still is a solid team, add again fully-commited Lithuanian team, potential DR farm team. And let's not forget that there were plenty (low tier, truth be told) of Russian and Czech foreigners which seemed to do well enough on teams like Ogre and Daugavpils. If we believe that our average young player is more skilled than 5 years ago, we actually are not that far off having some decent building blocks in place already. But all we need is an iniciative, direction and some push from somewhere.

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01-01-2013, 11:17 AM
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Its all well and good in theory but how could you get Latvian league back to the it was in 2008? we just dont have the player resources
Is there any reason to believe that five years ago we had player resources that we don't have now?

This season there are more than 30(!) Latvian players in lower Finnish leagues alone, around 150 professional players abroad in total. Most of the players of Zemgale, Monarhs, SMScredit would realistically play in the "proper" Latvian league anyway. Latvian league (and Latvian MHL clubs) currently have tons of young players that could turn out decent, but realistically, in the current state of things, won't have a place in Latvian hockey or abroad and will end their careers (the league would be a great tool of how to decrease the number of players that for one or another reason can't switch from junior to pro hockey). Back in the days there were a decent number of foreigners in Latvian league as well, of whom many were actually rather good (ex-Riga 2000 goalie Matuš Koštur is a Czech Extraleague starter now).

I think the main problem is the lack of money and initiative rather than the lack of player resources.

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01-01-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GX View Post
Is there any reason to believe that five years ago we had player resources that we don't have now?

This season there are more than 30(!) Latvian players in lower Finnish leagues alone, around 150 professional players abroad in total. Most of the players of Zemgale, Monarhs, SMScredit would realistically play in the "proper" Latvian league anyway. Latvian league (and Latvian MHL clubs) currently have tons of young players that could turn out decent, but realistically, in the current state of things, won't have a place in Latvian hockey or abroad and will end their careers (the league would be a great tool of how to decrease the number of players that for one or another reason can't switch from junior to pro hockey). Back in the days there were a decent number of foreigners in Latvian league as well, of whom many were actually rather good (ex-Riga 2000 goalie Matuš Koštur is a Czech Extraleague starter now).

I think the main problem is the lack of money and initiative rather than the lack of player resources.
Great minds think alike. Posted within a minute of mine post.

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