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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XXI-Maybe a Banner Year

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12-07-2012, 10:30 AM
  #176
KCBRUIN
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The money doesn't matter, it's the years. Ticket prices weren't going to drop if they got Victorino for $9million a year instead of $13million. Victorino's salary will not stop them from going after Hamilton or any other player they want. I don't care who gets paid what as long as the terms are short.

Cleveland offered $44million for 4, and we got him for $5million cheaper, and we're out of the contract a whole year earlier. So it's not a huge overpayment if other teams were offering more money.

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12-07-2012, 10:54 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by KCBRUIN View Post
The money doesn't matter, it's the years. Ticket prices weren't going to drop if they got Victorino for $9million a year instead of $13million. Victorino's salary will not stop them from going after Hamilton or any other player they want. I don't care who gets paid what as long as the terms are short.

Cleveland offered $44million for 4, and we got him for $5million cheaper, and we're out of the contract a whole year earlier. So it's not a huge overpayment if other teams were offering more money.
I don't like the move, regardless of years or money. Let Cleveland have him.

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12-07-2012, 11:13 AM
  #178
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I think thats a consideration, but is the plan to put the best team on the field or not?

I know they like draft picks, but it's not like many of these guys actually make it.

As a fan, I rather watch Josh Hamilton play over Victorino & Napoli every day of the week, and he also makes you better. Especially at the years and dollars being talkd about. If we were talking 6, 7 , 8 years at 20 plus I's so no.
Again, i think their goal is to put the best team on the field that won't subtract from building a young, strong team for 2014 and beyond. Napoli and victorino fit that. Hamilton would be a big addition, but he'd cost you a high 2nd round pick, #40 i believe. That could turn into a big piece going forward and i don't believe they want to sacrifice that for someone that doesn't satisfy their biggest which is an ace.

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12-07-2012, 11:28 AM
  #179
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I have a good feeling that John Lackey will surprise us all in 2013.
Well that's the upside of setting expectations lower than previously thought possible. Anything below a 5.00 ERA will surprise most of us.

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12-07-2012, 02:14 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by KCBRUIN View Post
The money doesn't matter, it's the years. Ticket prices weren't going to drop if they got Victorino for $9million a year instead of $13million. Victorino's salary will not stop them from going after Hamilton or any other player they want. I don't care who gets paid what as long as the terms are short.

Cleveland offered $44million for 4, and we got him for $5million cheaper, and we're out of the contract a whole year earlier. So it's not a huge overpayment if other teams were offering more money.
I didn't want him for one year.

I agree, with your sentiments in general, but not in this specific case.

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Old
12-07-2012, 05:04 PM
  #181
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Maybe, but they were in on Haren and they've been in on Dempster. Also, Jurrjens, Marcum, McCarthy, Liriano, Lohse, Jackson, and Lannan are still available. I'd be genuinely surprised if they're not at least discussing some, or all, of those guys.
Out of that group the only guys who interest(ed) me were Haren, Marcum (I think he has been underrated in his career, knows what it takes to pitch in the AL East), and maybe Liriano (shows flashes of brilliance but can't seem to put it together with any consistency). McCarthy is interesting but would be a huge risk seeing how he responds after his injury last year. All of the other guys I think would get lit up in the AL...I hope to hell they aren't the team that gives Kyle Lohse (the 34 year old with a career 4.45 ERA) a stupid contract just because he has had two good years in a row.

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12-07-2012, 06:03 PM
  #182
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Victorino was a great player & sparkplug on a great phillies team. Yeah, maybe he's lost it but to act like he's always been a chump is absurd. He was a great ballplayer not so long ago

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12-07-2012, 06:10 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by UNB Bruins Fan View Post
Out of that group the only guys who interest(ed) me were Haren, Marcum (I think he has been underrated in his career, knows what it takes to pitch in the AL East), and maybe Liriano (shows flashes of brilliance but can't seem to put it together with any consistency). McCarthy is interesting but would be a huge risk seeing how he responds after his injury last year. All of the other guys I think would get lit up in the AL...I hope to hell they aren't the team that gives Kyle Lohse (the 34 year old with a career 4.45 ERA) a stupid contract just because he has had two good years in a row.
McCarthy signed with the Diamondbacks, so he's off the market. I agree on every thing else. I really hope that Lohse doesn't sign here, I'm pretty sure he's a compensation guy. Stay away.

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Old
12-07-2012, 07:41 PM
  #184
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I feel Hamilton on a five plus year deal is feeding the Monster on a 3-4 year deal how can you not try that. The door is wide open Seattle is really the only other team we have to fight if Grenkie goes to the Rangers.

We would have a very very powerful line-up

Ells
Victorino
Pedy
Hamilton
Ortiz
Napoli
WMB
Salty
SS

2014
Victorino
Pedroia
Hamilton
Middlebrooks
Ortiz
Napoli
Bogarts
Salty
Bradley

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12-07-2012, 11:36 PM
  #185
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Dempster rejected our 2 year/25 mill offer.

That's about as far as I hope they go

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12-08-2012, 12:39 AM
  #186
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He also turned down a 2 year 26 million deal with KC.


Good luck to the guy, at 35 years old, he's not worth the 3-4 years he's looking for.

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12-08-2012, 10:04 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
He also turned down a 2 year 26 million deal with KC.


Good luck to the guy, at 35 years old, he's not worth the 3-4 years he's looking for.
The real take away from this is that the Royals are outbidding the Sox for a player. Hilarious.

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Old
12-08-2012, 10:58 AM
  #188
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I'm going to be ******** if Yankees sign Hamilton and we don't.

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12-08-2012, 11:37 AM
  #189
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I dont see how they would be able to without going over the Luxury tax for 2014.

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12-08-2012, 12:29 PM
  #190
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How can the Skanks sign JH when they are already taking offers for Granderson, Hughes and Nova and resigning Cano. Doubt it will happen.

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12-08-2012, 01:00 PM
  #191
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How can the Skanks sign JH when they are already taking offers for Granderson, Hughes and Nova and resigning Cano. Doubt it will happen.
This is the Yankees. If they decide they want him, they'll get him and make it work. Its not rocket science here. They can do it if they want.

Do I think he'll end up there? No. But with Arod out, Swisher gone, it could happen. They're always a player in these things.

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12-08-2012, 01:05 PM
  #192
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Exactly...I know right now it seems like they are dead set on getting under the tax threshold, but they could easily decide tomorrow 'eff that' and sign him to a huge contract. It's not like they are losing money.

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12-08-2012, 01:06 PM
  #193
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I dont see how they would be able to without going over the Luxury tax for 2014.
It goes up to $189 million in 2014 right?

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Old
12-08-2012, 01:31 PM
  #194
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the luxury tax thing is very real.

the penalties for it are a joke.

Quote:
The current $178 million thresholds for the "luxury tax" on payrolls will remain unchanged in 2012 and 2013 but will increase to $189 million for 2014, 2015, and 2016. The tax rate will decrease to 17.5 percent for teams that exceed the threshold for the first time, and increase to 50 percent for clubs that exceed it for the fourth time or more. Rates will remain the same for clubs that exceed the threshold for the second time (30 percent) and third time (40 percent).
teams are being penalized for spending money to get better while other teams are being rewarded for pocketing money.

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Old
12-08-2012, 02:00 PM
  #195
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It goes up to $189 million in 2014 right?
correct and the penalty for it is absurd.

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Old
12-08-2012, 02:02 PM
  #196
robert terwilliger
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moneyball is a bad movie.

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Old
12-08-2012, 02:08 PM
  #197
KCBRUIN
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They just need to institute a salary cap, and then a minimum percentage of that cap that small market teams must spend. The luxury tax is a joke.

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12-08-2012, 02:10 PM
  #198
robert terwilliger
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salary caps are great for owners, bad for players.

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12-08-2012, 03:52 PM
  #199
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salary caps are great for owners, bad for players.
Not really when they are set so ridiculously high that maybe 2 or 2 teams have the revenues to approach that level.

Where the players failed was by not insisting on a salary floor, and punitive penalties for teams that decide to put a team on the field with a very low payroll

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12-08-2012, 04:06 PM
  #200
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well that's the upside of setting expectations lower than previously thought possible. Anything below a 5.00 era will surprise most of us.
(2013) 15-8 184.2 ip 3.78 era 168 k

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