HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Oilers Caps /Oilers Blues

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-06-2012, 08:29 PM
  #226
Redden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 77
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Who said I was trying to sound smart? Sounds like a personal attack, where my post did nothing of the sort. I'm just stating my opinion about the system the Blues employ...The one that everyone complains about being boring and killing hockey.
Sorry I jumped the gun a little bit there, not meant to be a personal attack. Your post seemed the same way.

Redden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 08:35 PM
  #227
CarvinSigX
Registered User
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 8,004
vCash: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redden View Post
Sorry I jumped the gun a little bit there, not meant to be a personal attack. Your post seemed the same way.
It's cool. I have a hard time typing tone into my sentence structure.

CarvinSigX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 08:53 PM
  #228
Redden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 77
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
It's cool. I have a hard time typing tone into my sentence structure.
Same here, I'm new to the forums.

Redden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 10:04 PM
  #229
Pekka Rinne
Registered User
 
Pekka Rinne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 819
vCash: 500
I would not touch the Washington deal from an Edmonton.

Even if Carlson's value>=Eberle's, Petry>>Schultz, the 2nd does not make up for that.

As for the St Louis one, I may do it. But may not. We may not need a 2nd line centre now as Gagner will be playing with a sniper in Eberle,Hall or Yakupov, which is something he has been sorely lacking in his career. But Shattenkirk is a very intriguing piece. I would probably decline in the end though as Shattenkirk is the same type of player as J. Schultz, im not saying he will be as good, but we do not need two OFD's like that and certainly not worth giving Petry and Eberle for.

Also, some EDM fans massively overrating Petry here, but STL fans are certainly underrating him here, he is a reliable two way 2nd pairing defender

Pekka Rinne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 10:15 PM
  #230
oilers84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
to stl
jones
peckham
rieder
4th round

to edm
stewart

oilers84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 10:25 PM
  #231
Dolph Ziggler
IC Champion
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 8,956
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers84 View Post
to stl
jones
peckham
rieder
4th round

to edm
stewart
Pass on any deal where Blues give up the best player in the deal. We have plenty of depth.

Dolph Ziggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 10:26 PM
  #232
Pekka Rinne
Registered User
 
Pekka Rinne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers84 View Post
to stl
jones
peckham
rieder
4th round

to edm
stewart
I don't touch this, Jones out scored Stewart last year while bringing similar physicality. And I would not add a young 5/6 dman that brings the physicality we desperately need and Rieder who I belive will be a solid bottom 6 player.

Pekka Rinne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:13 PM
  #233
judge301
Registered User
 
judge301's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Also, epic fail on the Datsyuk and Gretzky comparison. Gretzky was on another planet than just about any player to ever step foot on an ice hockey rink.
I guess I shoulda added the after the comparisson. It wasn't meant to be a direct comparisson of those two players.

judge301 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 06:52 AM
  #234
PantherStriker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 202
vCash: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post

To Oilers
Kevin Shattenkirk
Patrik Berglund


To Blues
Jordan Eberle
Jeff Petry
This trade made me think. I've been huge on Shattenkirk since his days with the Avs, and Berglund would fit in as the Oilers 2nd line center over Gagner. Berglund would light it up offensively, and probably break the 60 point mark. Shatty playing alongside Schultz on the PP would be some unreal puck movement as well.

For the Blues, the trade leaves a big hole in the back end. They could however trade Stewart for a replacement, with his spot taken in the top 6 by Eberle

At the same time, no Oiler fan wants to see Eberle leave, so this trade will be bashed into nonexistence.

PantherStriker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 09:45 AM
  #235
bottomofthefoodchain
Registered User
 
bottomofthefoodchain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,873
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherStriker View Post
This trade made me think. I've been huge on Shattenkirk since his days with the Avs, and Berglund would fit in as the Oilers 2nd line center over Gagner. Berglund would light it up offensively, and probably break the 60 point mark. Shatty playing alongside Schultz on the PP would be some unreal puck movement as well.

For the Blues, the trade leaves a big hole in the back end. They could however trade Stewart for a replacement, with his spot taken in the top 6 by Eberle

At the same time, no Oiler fan wants to see Eberle leave, so this trade will be bashed into nonexistence.
It also leaves a big hole for the Blues at center.

bottomofthefoodchain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:25 PM
  #236
bluemandan
Ya Ma Goo!
 
bluemandan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redden View Post
Ahh okay bluemandan and bleedblue123, how much have you seen petry play? Did you see personally how he transformed his play from struggling to a top 4 dman? How his and smids great play, finally giving us a legit pairing, led to dubnyk posting some great stats in the last half year? How he improved week to week to week? If you did by all means I'll debate the value of petry with you. If not, I dont know why youre pretending to be experts on him. Having followed hockey for awhile you can see which players are going to keep improving (smart players just needing confidence) compared to ones who won't improve that much more like gagner after his rookie season where he just doesn't have the skill or speed to improve. Petry falls into the former. Notice the objectivity in evaluating players, I'm not just a homer saying petry is great just because he's an oiler.
And just to answer some of your questions why not project Petrys next year on his last forty games? Those are the forty he actually played with confidence for and reflect his true ability. You're right he hasn't reached thirty points yet in the NHL, I've heard young players usually progress in their first five seasons and get better stats. As far a your defensive system making it harder for defensemen to score, Erik Johnson posted the worst totals of his career and Eric brewer posted lower ppg in their next full season out of stlouis. Your theory lacks some proof.
Bluemandan, he's the third PMD behin pietrangelo and who else? And if you didn't jump in half way through you'll notice I said petry doesn't play first pp unit which gets way more time and is way more successful than the second unit. This tells me youve seen very little of petry play and are uneducated on his value. Petry, even if he played second unit in stlouis, would be on a better unit that gets more time than Edmontons second unit. That's where the increase in pp points comes from. And also if both of you read my posts, it mentions a couple times petry will get 30 points next year not 40. Let me know if I'm vastly misreading your posts too cuz I know how frustrating it is to constantly have to repeat an argument
Players point production tends to peak at around age 26:



http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/...-game-peak-age

A forty game sample size during which a player puts up a better PPG average than at any point in his career at any level doesn't seem like the right sample to project off of. I don't expect Pietrangelo to be a PPG player for the rest of his career, but that is the level he produced at during the final ~40 games of last season.

Petry would be behind Russell as well as a PMD option. We traded Nikitin for Russell specifically for his puck moving abilities. Pietrangelo and Steen would man the points on the first unit, with Russell and someone else on the points on the second unit. Could that be Petry? Sure, but he will have to earn it. It won't just be handed to him.

EJ and Brewer didn't play for Hitchcock, so they played under systems that didn't restrict their offensive creativaty.

Again, just because Petry would be the return for Shattenkirk, it doesn't mean that the Blues would use him in the same role.

You are using a limited sample size from an offensive power-house during which Petry performed better than at any point in his hockey career, and assuming that not only can he sustain it, but that he could do so with a weaker supporting cast.

Even if we go with 30 points for Petry and not the upper level of 40 that you claimed, it is still a stretch to expect Petry to put up those numbers on the Oilers next season.

Also, I'm not buying that St. Louis' second unit PP gets more ice-time and is more effective than Edmonton's.

You claim that Petry came around because he finally got confidence, and that was what was holding him back before. Well what if he goes through a slump? What if the Blues sustain some injuries and start slumping? Would he still be putting up points at the same level?

And I don't know how objective you are when you think that Shattenkirk's number would go up the same amount going to Edmonton that Petry's would going to St. Louis. Edmonton has a better PP, scored more goals, and has better top end talent than St. Louis. By making the move, both players point totals would go up ~15. That isn't objective. Sorry, its just not.


I think the issue is that you are trying to stress Petry's value as a point producer. I don't believe that his points would go up coming to because a.) he won't be put into a bigger offensive role and b.) the Blues are significantly weaker offensively than Edmonton. If you were trying to say that he is decent defensively, and would get better playing for the Blues were he would have better support around him and could rely on his partner to progress the play up ice thus focusing more on the defensive side, I'd agree with you.


Last edited by bluemandan: 12-07-2012 at 12:36 PM.
bluemandan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 01:09 PM
  #237
Descendent*
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 308
vCash: 500
Jordan Eberle is priceless. Don't waste your time on proposals for him.

Descendent* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 03:05 PM
  #238
ManByng
Moroz fan
 
ManByng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers84 View Post
to stl
jones
peckham
rieder
4th round

to edm
stewart
^hell no!!

ManByng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 03:06 PM
  #239
ManByng
Moroz fan
 
ManByng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp10 View Post
Jordan Eberle is priceless. Don't waste your time on proposals for him.
and as much as i'd like to see John Carlson on the Oilers, i just can't see our management giving up one of the big 4 to get him, so we ain't gettin' him!

ManByng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 03:20 PM
  #240
Vladys Gumption
Moderator
Trap City
 
Vladys Gumption's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,032
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp10 View Post
Jordan Eberle is priceless. Don't waste your time on proposals for him.
You do realize an oilers fan started this right?

Vladys Gumption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 03:55 PM
  #241
Descendent*
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 308
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
You do realize an oilers fan started this right?
General statement to all.

I really like the Blues team. Solid for years to come.

Descendent* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 06:38 PM
  #242
Oilin Toronto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekka Rinne View Post
I would not touch the Washington deal from an Edmonton.

Even if Carlson's value>=Eberle's, Petry>>Schultz, the 2nd does not make up for that.

As for the St Louis one, I may do it. But may not. We may not need a 2nd line centre now as Gagner will be playing with a sniper in Eberle,Hall or Yakupov, which is something he has been sorely lacking in his career. But Shattenkirk is a very intriguing piece. I would probably decline in the end though as Shattenkirk is the same type of player as J. Schultz, im not saying he will be as good, but we do not need two OFD's like that and certainly not worth giving Petry and Eberle for.

Also, some EDM fans massively overrating Petry here, but STL fans are certainly underrating him here, he is a reliable two way 2nd pairing defender
I know you are not necessarily saying that Carlson's value is >= Eberle, but just using this as an example is wrong on so many levels. IMO, and I have his stats as proof, Eberle is among the top 15 players in the league. Not only does his stats show that, but the fact that he's been successful at every level that he's played should be a proof of that. When you consider his age, there's no reason that he cannot be an 80-90pt player in this league. Before you beat me up on this, you have to consider the facts:
1) He was top 15 in league scoring as a 2nd year player. He's only going to get better.
2) He was the only performer on the Oilers when RNH and Hall were out with injuries.
3) His stats will improve as the players around him improve. I feel that he now has the teammates to have a breakout season.

I've got to be clear that I love the way Carlson plays, and ever since he scored the overtime goal at the WJC's against Canada, I've always loved what he brings to the table. However, at this point in time, his value is nowhere near what Eberle's is. I honestly think that people need to lay off of Eberle trade proposals because unless some team overpays massively, he's going nowhere.

Also, do not tell me that this thread was started by an Oiler fan. I've seen the proposals this OP makes, and I've got to tell you, he's either a fan of another team, or is a teenager.

Oilin Toronto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 01:56 PM
  #243
Eskimo44
Registered User
 
Eskimo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,413
vCash: 500
Jeff Petry is going to make some people look really dumb over the next few seasons. Russell over Petry as a PMD, that's just silly. It's amazing how a guy can be so highly touted in College and be so good as a pro yet be so overlooked. Petry was voted in college the most likely to succeed in the NHL, he was Edmonton's top or 2nd best prospect (after Eberle) for years. He was very very good last year.

Eskimo44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 01:59 PM
  #244
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,145
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Jeff Petry is going to make some people look really dumb over the next few seasons. Russell over Petry as a PMD, that's just silly. It's amazing how a guy can be so highly touted in College and be so good as a pro yet be so overlooked. Petry was voted in college the most likely to succeed in the NHL, he was Edmonton's top or 2nd best prospect (after Eberle) for years. He was very very good last year.
50/50 chance most of them will have orange and blue on.

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 02:01 PM
  #245
Eskimo44
Registered User
 
Eskimo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Petry's excellant 2nd half included 20 points in 43 games or a 38 point pace over 82 games, and -5 rating. Shattenkirk finished the last 33 games of last season on a 50 point pace. We can also use Shattenkirk's first 38 games to his career when he was on a 56 point pace if you want to look at 1/2 seasons. Petry is not on Shattenkirk's level, and the gap is similar to the gap between Eberle and Berglund.

Don't even bring up RNH, Petry did not have even a 1/2 season like RNH or was a #1 pick like RNH.
Yes because Shattenkirk was used as his teams shutdown defenseman. You realize that Shattenkirk was used in a very offensive role while Petry was used in a defensive role right? Not making any statements on whos better or worse but this is such an unfair comparison it's unreal.

Eskimo44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 02:05 PM
  #246
Eskimo44
Registered User
 
Eskimo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Seriously? You're going to quote dictionary terms? He made a statement that attempted to overlook that Petry had a full year and a half of disapponting play, and is trying to say that there's not a significant gap between him and Shattenkirk. Shattenkirk has been excellent since the first game of his NHL career. Petry hasn't. And why bring RNH into it? Did he have a subpar season? Absolutely not. So he has no bearing on this conversation.
You literally just made this up. Nobody was dissapointed in Petry. Nobody.

Eskimo44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 02:05 PM
  #247
Carlzner
Who's Zed?
 
Carlzner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 10,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
I've got to be clear that I love the way Carlson plays, and ever since he scored the overtime goal at the WJC's against Canada, I've always loved what he brings to the table. However, at this point in time, his value is nowhere near what Eberle's is. I honestly think that people need to lay off of Eberle trade proposals because unless some team overpays massively, he's going nowhere.
Are you kidding me? He's 22 years old and has been a top-pairing defenseman for a playoff team for 2 seasons now.

Eberle has had one season over 50 points on a bottom-feeder team.

In WHAT world does Eberle have more value?

... Oh, that's right. HFBoards world.

Carlzner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 02:23 PM
  #248
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,418
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Yes because Shattenkirk was used as his teams shutdown defenseman. You realize that Shattenkirk was used in a very offensive role while Petry was used in a defensive role right? Not making any statements on whos better or worse but this is such an unfair comparison it's unreal.
Why don't you go tell that to your Oiler buddy that was arguing Petry's offense and not his defense.

Shattenkirk was not used in a very offensive role, he had a balanced role. He played against the 2nd best competition with Jackman. The only times that the pairings got mixed up and he got more offensive minutes with Pietrangelo was when we needed a goal late in the game.

Petry only averaged about 30 more seconds on the penalty kill per game, so lets not act like Petry was the shutdown stud and Shattenkirk never saw defensive minutes.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 02:23 PM
  #249
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 8,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Jeff Petry is going to make some people look really dumb over the next few seasons. Russell over Petry as a PMD, that's just silly. It's amazing how a guy can be so highly touted in College and be so good as a pro yet be so overlooked. Petry was voted in college the most likely to succeed in the NHL, he was Edmonton's top or 2nd best prospect (after Eberle) for years. He was very very good last year.
In 2010, he was rated 12th best player under 25 by an Oiler website.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/8/5/...ospects-top-25

Here he was voted 5th best:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ar.../t-801144.html

Here he was 6th best, but was 3rd in the past. That's the highest I've been able to find him.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ects_fall2009/

His write-up:
Quote:
He has the skills for the NHL level, but these things have to come together on a higher level and at a more constant level.
Don't give me this crap about 2nd best prospect anytime recently. He was a top prospect in 2008. And has steadily dropped since.

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2012, 03:00 PM
  #250
Eskimo44
Registered User
 
Eskimo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
In 2010, he was rated 12th best player under 25 by an Oiler website.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/8/5/...ospects-top-25

Here he was voted 5th best:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ar.../t-801144.html

Here he was 6th best, but was 3rd in the past. That's the highest I've been able to find him.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ects_fall2009/

His write-up:


Don't give me this crap about 2nd best prospect anytime recently. He was a top prospect in 2008. And has steadily dropped since.
Copper and Blue is a fan site and not what i was reffering to, also it includes all players under the age of 25 (so it includes NHLers). Basically it's an entirely different ranking altogether, so nice try. But since you brought it up you would probably be interested in how they currently rank him: http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/8/11...final-rankings

He's ranked 5th on the team behind only Hall, Nuge, Yakupov, Eberle. He's ahead of Schultz (although that will change) and Gagner. Two writers actually ranked him in the top 5. One had him at 3 and another at 4. 6th is his very worst ranking by any writer. Petry's writeup is here:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/8/6/...-25-under-25-5

So refrencing the Copper and Blue really isn't going to help your argument as A. They are either as high on him as i am or even higher and B. It's not even the same ****ing thing as i brought up.

HFboards means nothing what a useless thing to bring up. Also when i talked about his prospect ranking you have to realize he was drafted in 06. We all know as soon as Hall was drafted he was number 1 and Eberle 2. However Hall was drafted a full 4 years after Petry. It was during this time that Petry and Eberle were constantly battling it out for the teams top prospect nomination.

Hockey's future, finally a good source. He actually was ranked 1 and 2 at various times by Hockey's future. This is in fact what i was reffering too. Also the Pipeline show in Edmonton consistently refrenced him as one of the teams top prospects, if not the top prospect. Also in Edmonton we have these things called "newspapers" and often times in theses "newspapers" they would have writeups and rankings of various prospects. Believe it or not this is how most people in Edmonton used to follow prospect development, and many of them did in fact rank Petry very high. Not to mention the fact that the organization has been very high on him for years.

2009 is your earliest source you bring up, yet that's 3 years after he was drafted. Perhaps you out to look a little deeper before condeming my comments. When you ignore 3 years, refrence comparisons of a different type (that C&B link is an entirely different comparison to refrence), and then hilariously try and use an HF poll to prove me wrong it's time to think things out a little deeper i would suggest. Serioulsy he was ranked behind a 1st overall, CHL player of the year, and a WC all star who was 19 years old, as well as an international star who all at that time where considered top young talents in your HFboards source. Clearly he must be awful.

But i saved the best for last. Here this is for you:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ects_fall2008/

Guess who's number 1?

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ts_spring2008/

Guess what? Number 1 again.

So yeah i wasn't full of it, he was a top prospect for us. Believe it or not he went down the rankings when we drafted high multiple years in a row. Getting guys like Hall (1st overall), Eberle (CHL player of the year and NHL All Star), Paajarvi (top ranked European forward from his draft year), Gagner (high pick with an excellent 18 year old season) pushed him down the list but it never made him a worse player. So next time you call BS on me bring facts and common sense to the table, not to mention appropriate sources.

Eskimo44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.