As of right now, Dougie Hamilton is a better player. Hamilton is Canada's best dmen.
^^ i agree. Dougie is older, bigger, and in his 4th yr of jr. hockey - Jones might end up better down the road, but as of now he's not at Hamilton's level.
Hamilton's also already played at wjc...no way would Jones be #1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy Kassian
I personally prefer Rielly, Murray, and Jones over Hamilton.
Murray can't play. I think Jones and Rielly would be pretty close...but we'll see.
In any event, I'm excited to see Jones (and Rielly, too of course) at the tournament...I was hoping Jones would make it last year. Too bad he got injured.
I know Murray can't play but we're talking about who is the better player.
yeah, okay...sorry. i wasn't trying to insult your intelligence...i thought we were talking *in a literal sense* about who would be ranked where on Team Canada. sorry about that.
i agree with you that *at present* Murray would be better at WJC than Jones.
I don't agree. I like Murray a lot, but Jones is better. He's more physically dominant, and much better offensively
Im not sure you could say Jones is or isnt better than anything Canada has to offer atm. He could be, but then again, he may not be. Who has really seen all of the top guys enough to know for sure this year?
I don't agree. I like Murray a lot, but Jones is better. He's more physically dominant, and much better offensively
really? so far this year Murray has been offensively better on a far worse team than Jones...and Jones is defensively strong but not what i'd call "physically dominant"...in fact, if there's something that Jones needs to improve on is using his size (as he has it) a lot more.
on top of that...jones is in his first year of jr. hockey after two years in the NTDP...while Murray is into his 3rd jr of jr. (and is a jr older than jones).
if you asked me who i thought would pan out as the better player i'd say jones v. quickly...but to say that Jones is *currently* better than Murray? sorry, but that just makes me laugh...in a *here and now* sense, Murray is easily the better player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor
Im not sure you could say Jones is or isnt better than anything Canada has to offer atm. He could be, but then again, he may not be. Who has really seen all of the top guys enough to know for sure this year?
Jones is amazing...but re Canada...Hamilton is easily better at this particular point...and currently it's not close b/w Jones/Hamilton...maybe down the road...but now? Hamilton ainec.
7 game heater for Jones. 10 pts in those 7 games. Picking it up on the offense a lot, really looking forward to seeing him play at the WJCs. Think I'd pick him first at this point, just my opinion though.
Who's been watching Portland in these games? I'm guessing he's not on the first PP with Rutkowski and Pouliot being there. Just from checking boxscores it looks like his partner at PP and ES is Wotherspoon. Pretty ridiculous top-4, probably best in the WHL if not CHL.
7 game heater for Jones. 10 pts in those 7 games. Picking it up on the offense a lot, really looking forward to seeing him play at the WJCs. Think I'd pick him first at this point, just my opinion though.
Who's been watching Portland in these games? I'm guessing he's not on the first PP with Rutkowski and Pouliot being there. Just from checking boxscores it looks like his partner at PP and ES is Wotherspoon. Pretty ridiculous top-4, probably best in the WHL if not CHL.
Watched him last night. Despite continuing his hot streak he was flat out bad in the game. Overhandled the puck almost every time he touched it and turned it over a ton. Just needed to regroup and get back to his quick decision making.
Watched him last night. Despite continuing his hot streak he was flat out bad in the game. Overhandled the puck almost every time he touched it and turned it over a ton. Just needed to regroup and get back to his quick decision making.
Probably the worst viewing of him I've ever had.
And a +2 for the game. I guess we can put you in the disbeliever column when it comes to the plus/minus stat.
really? so far this year Murray has been offensively better on a far worse team than Jones...and Jones is defensively strong but not what i'd call "physically dominant"...in fact, if there's something that Jones needs to improve on is using his size (as he has it) a lot more.
on top of that...jones is in his first year of jr. hockey after two years in the NTDP...while Murray is into his 3rd jr of jr. (and is a jr older than jones).
if you asked me who i thought would pan out as the better player i'd say jones v. quickly...but to say that Jones is *currently* better than Murray? sorry, but that just makes me laugh...in a *here and now* sense, Murray is easily the better player.
Don't get me wrong, as I said before, I'm a huge Murray fan. He just isn't as dynamic as Jones. Murray is a fantastic passer, but Jones is much better at carrying the puck and leading the rush. And if you honestly don't think that Jones is able to dominate other teams, you need to actually watch a game. He can downright man handle anyone in the corners. Murray is a much more polished player, but I'd still rather have Jones for a game tomorrow, or in 10 years
Advanced stats fans and traditional scouting fans both dislike +/-. Informed observers who use it are the minority.
+\- is only usefull when there is an obvious difference between them on the same team. If the whole team is dominant and all the D have amazing plus minus it doesn't tell the whole story on the ice.
If you got one D man with a +9 and all the other D men are in the minuses, it's probably a better indicator
+\- is only usefull when there is an obvious difference between them on the same team. If the whole team is dominant and all the D have amazing plus minus it doesn't tell the whole story on the ice.
If you got one D man with a +9 and all the other D men are in the minuses, it's probably a better indicator
Not really, because it's possible that the coach is using that player in a more offensive role. If he has a pairing that he always sends out for defensive zone faceoffs, a pairing that is used in a more balanced method and then an offensive pairing, the offensive pairing will have a better +/- even if the shutdown pairing is providing a larger swing goals differential.
Jones appears to be to be a superior athlete, and extremely physically (and perhaps even "mentally") gifted, but if he went 1st overall I'd have to say he was the least talented 1st overall to come around since Stefan, and might be lucky to end up having the impact of, say, a Jovanovski. Love the athlete, but don't love the hockey player that much (plenty to love about 6'4" with a RH shot, though). Still plenty of potential, but not sure I'd skip everyone else to pick him unless big athletic defense was a much, much higher priority on draft day.
Jones appears to be to be a superior athlete, and extremely physically (and perhaps even "mentally") gifted, but if he went 1st overall I'd have to say he was the least talented 1st overall to come around since Stefan, and might be lucky to end up having the impact of, say, a Jovanovski. Love the athlete, but don't love the hockey player that much (plenty to love about 6'4" with a RH shot, though). Still plenty of potential, but not sure I'd skip everyone else to pick him unless big athletic defense was a much, much higher priority on draft day.
So he's extremely gifted physically and mentally but yet he's on par talent-wise with a Stefan? To me, this smacks of an analysis based more on the fact Jones is the son of a former NBA player than anything else. In other words-not all that well-informed.
Watched him last night. Despite continuing his hot streak he was flat out bad in the game. Overhandled the puck almost every time he touched it and turned it over a ton. Just needed to regroup and get back to his quick decision making.
Probably the worst viewing of him I've ever had.
keep up the reports, renegade! i'll put more weight into what you have to say rather than someone else commenting on a box score.
Jones appears to be to be a superior athlete, and extremely physically (and perhaps even "mentally") gifted, but if he went 1st overall I'd have to say he was the least talented 1st overall to come around since Stefan, and might be lucky to end up having the impact of, say, a Jovanovski. Love the athlete, but don't love the hockey player that much (plenty to love about 6'4" with a RH shot, though). Still plenty of potential, but not sure I'd skip everyone else to pick him unless big athletic defense was a much, much higher priority on draft day.
Being in Halifax, I assume you watch a lot of Portland Winterhawks games?
And a +2 for the game. I guess we can put you in the disbeliever column when it comes to the plus/minus stat.
When your team is winning by 3+ goals almost nightly, it's not difficult to come out on the positive side and still not play very well. there isn't a minus player on the entire Portland team.
the standard Jones has set in the last 2 months is quite high and it's safe to say he didn't really meet it last night. he looked shaky and unsure of himself at times which is completely unlike him. sometimes guys have off nights. nothing to put much stock into.
having said that, I would disagree with Cody in that I didn't think he was "flat out bad," but he certainly wasn't "Seth Jones good."
Being in Halifax, I assume you watch a lot of Portland Winterhawks games?
I've been able to catch a few. I've also tried to stay up with my video research on all the guys being talked about for this year's top ~10. Heck, I even caught both the Michigan Tech/Wisconsin game and the Colorado College/Minnesota back-to-back this weekend, and I'm in none of those places, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
So he's extremely gifted physically and mentally but yet he's on par talent-wise with a Stefan? To me, this smacks of an analysis based more on the fact Jones is the son of a former NBA player than anything else. In other words-not all that well-informed.
It's not that hard, really. Size, athleticism, and safe decision-making are all important skills, of course, but they're also the skills that are less likely to set you apart once part of the NHL pool. So if the execution skills are a bit lacking, you really gotta wonder if he's worth picking over some of the super talent showcasing itself at the forward position this year, that's all I'm saying. It would seem as though he hasn't even been tested as much in a lot of the situational play that some of these forwards are earning a reputation for either (given the Winterhawks' other options for the PP/PK), and I know I'm not alone in saying that I'd like to see a defenseman handle lead duties in most (if not all) of those situations for an extended time before burning a 1st overall pick on him. After all, it wasn't that long ago that Erik Johnson (who was, kind of conversely, size and execution skills without the decision-making or super athleticism) was picked over Staal, Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel, so the "lesson has been learned", so to speak. Obviously he must have had plenty of games where he was more impressive than the ones I've seen, so I'm keen on following him more during the WJC.
Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 12-09-2012 at 02:52 PM.
I've been able to catch a few. I've also tried to stay up with my video research on all the guys being talked about for this year's top ~10. Heck, I even caught both the Michigan Tech/Wisconsin game and the Colorado College/Minnesota back-to-back this weekend, and I'm in none of those places, either.
It's not that hard, really. Size, athleticism, and safe decision-making are all important skills, of course, but they're also the skills that are less likely to set you apart once part of the NHL pool. So if the execution skills are a bit lacking, you really gotta wonder if he's worth picking over some of the super talent showcasing itself at the forward position this year, that's all I'm saying. It would seem as though he hasn't even been tested as much in a lot of the situational play that some of these forwards are earning a reputation for either (given the Winterhawks' other options for the PP/PK), and I know I'm not alone in saying that I'd like to see a defenseman handle lead duties in most (if not all) of those situations for an extended time before burning a 1st overall pick on him. After all, it wasn't that long ago that Erik Johnson (who was, kind of conversely, size and execution skills without the decision-making or super athleticism) was picked over Staal, Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel, so the "lesson has been learned", so to speak. Obviously he must have had plenty of games where he was more impressive than the ones I've seen, so I'm keen on following him more during the WJC.
Who the heck were you watching in that game that's Top ten potential?
I've been able to catch a few. I've also tried to stay up with my video research on all the guys being talked about for this year's top ~10. Heck, I even caught both the Michigan Tech/Wisconsin game and the Colorado College/Minnesota back-to-back this weekend, and I'm in none of those places, either.
It's not that hard, really. Size, athleticism, and safe decision-making are all important skills, of course, but they're also the skills that are less likely to set you apart once part of the NHL pool. So if the execution skills are a bit lacking, you really gotta wonder if he's worth picking over some of the super talent showcasing itself at the forward position this year, that's all I'm saying. It would seem as though he hasn't even been tested as much in a lot of the situational play that some of these forwards are earning a reputation for either (given the Winterhawks' other options for the PP/PK), and I know I'm not alone in saying that I'd like to see a defenseman handle lead duties in most (if not all) of those situations for an extended time before burning a 1st overall pick on him. After all, it wasn't that long ago that Erik Johnson (who was, kind of conversely, size and execution skills without the decision-making or super athleticism) was picked over Staal, Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel, so the "lesson has been learned", so to speak. Obviously he must have had plenty of games where he was more impressive than the ones I've seen, so I'm keen on following him more during the WJC.
I hate when people bring this up. Erik Johnson was a different player before his knee injury and the player you see today isnt the player he was when he stepped into the NHL and put up 33pts in less then 70 games as a rookie and had people saying he was a future Norris winner. It's easy in hindsight to say something like you are but the guy had a injury that some guys come back 100% but some others dont and Johnson has just never been as explosive since.
I somewhat agree that Jones is still raw in some aspects but his hockeysense is actually decent and hes already producing at a elite point pace. For me Jones easily has the most exciting skillset in the draft because its not everyday you find a guy with his size/frame, skating ability and hockeysense. I get the quote about him maybe being more of a "athlete" right now then a hockey player but because he thinks the game very well I'm not really that concerned and feel he will develop quite nicely.
