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The Lockout (panthers related)

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Old
12-08-2012, 02:31 PM
  #76
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I dont know if anyone follows Allan Walsh on twitter, a sports agent who works for Octagon Hockey, but he made a comment about the Panthers. He said that even though the Panthers ownership group says they lose millions from the team, the make a "killing" with everything that goes on in the arena as a whole. Its just interesting to see an outsider bring something like that up. He said the information was available in the Broward County Auditors Report.

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12-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I dont know if anyone follows Allan Walsh on twitter, a sports agent who works for Octagon Hockey, but he made a comment about the Panthers. He said that even though the Panthers ownership group says they lose millions from the team, the make a "killing" with everything that goes on in the arena as a whole. Its just interesting to see an outsider bring something like that up. He said the information was available in the Broward County Auditors Report.
Its true or else the panthers would have folded a long time ago. However, the 13 teams that "Lose" money compensate in other areas outside the scope of HRR. Therefore, its none of the PA's business how the Panthers or owners make a living.

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12-08-2012, 03:42 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
Its true or else the panthers would have folded a long time ago. However, the 13 teams that "Lose" money compensate in other areas outside the scope of HRR. Therefore, its none of the PA's business how the Panthers or owners make a living.
The owners make money on the other events BECAUSE they own the Panthers. No Panthers... no SSE.

I think the PA has every right to know what else is on SSE's books.

You can bet if there is any expense that could either go in the "hockey" column or the "concerts" column, the accountants are putting it in the "hockey" column. The inverse is likely true for any similar revenue.

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12-08-2012, 07:08 PM
  #79
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Yean but Missy scored more points last year than Upshall did.

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12-08-2012, 08:07 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
The owners make money on the other events BECAUSE they own the Panthers. No Panthers... no SSE.

I think the PA has every right to know what else is on SSE's books.

You can bet if there is any expense that could either go in the "hockey" column or the "concerts" column, the accountants are putting it in the "hockey" column. The inverse is likely true for any similar revenue.
And the players make money on endorsements no NHL no endorsements should the owners get a part of that?

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12-08-2012, 08:40 PM
  #81
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Come on. Only the major stars make any money on endorsements. The average player works only for his contract.

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12-09-2012, 03:11 PM
  #82
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Come on. Only the major stars make any money on endorsements. The average player works only for his contract.
Just pointing out that if owners should leave the players endorsement money out of it money the owners make outside of the NHL should be out of it.

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12-09-2012, 11:28 PM
  #83
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And the players make money on endorsements no NHL no endorsements should the owners get a part of that?
This has absolutely nothing to do with what AT said.

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12-10-2012, 06:54 AM
  #84
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This has absolutely nothing to do with what AT said.
He said that because SSE owns the Panthers the players have a right to know what else the owners are making money on. I don't think it has anything to do with it. Just like I don't think owners have any business in what the players do outside of playing games. If the players accountants are so bad they can't figure out hockey expense vs. Concert expense they need new accountants. Not to mention their would be tax fraud involved if they were moving around money like that.

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12-10-2012, 07:33 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
He said that because SSE owns the Panthers the players have a right to know what else the owners are making money on. I don't think ito has anything to do with it. Just like I don't think owners have any business in what the players do outsidee of playing games. If the players accountants are so bad they can't figure out hockey expense vs. Concert expense they need new accountants. Not to mention their would be tax fraud involved if they were moving around money like that.
You are correct, I was a little too quick with my reply. The NHLPA and NHL should only be concerned with the now famous "hockey related revenue" which is a cash bleeder for SSE right now. But the SSE gets a nice profit every year from concerts, advertisements, and that sweet Broward county deal that the public knows nothing about. Cliff Viner is getting his, he wouldn't be in the game if he wasn't.

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12-10-2012, 11:18 AM
  #86
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An interesting video (tweeted by Bob McKenzie) for fans willing to protest:

http://vimeo.com/55149830

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12-10-2012, 05:41 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
He said that because SSE owns the Panthers the players have a right to know what else the owners are making money on. I don't think it has anything to do with it. Just like I don't think owners have any business in what the players do outside of playing games. If the players accountants are so bad they can't figure out hockey expense vs. Concert expense they need new accountants. Not to mention their would be tax fraud involved if they were moving around money like that.
Their accountants can't make that determination when they are only shown half of the books.

It's only tax fraud if they hide the money altogether. As long as it shows up on the books somewhere it's not tax fraud since SSE & the Panthers are one and the same with the same owners and the same percentage ownership.

I would agree that the players have no right to know what the owners make money on... until the owners decide to tie the players salaries to how much money the franchise makes. Then they have every right to see those books.

They have absolutely no right to see any revenue owners get from entities NOT related to the Panthers. Since SSE and the Panthers are inextricable, the players (and the county government/taxpayers) should have every right to see those books.

It's not worth arguing over since the PA already fought that battle and lost. I'm just pointing out that the current arrangement of determining hockey related revenue certainly plays in ownerships favor.

I really find it curious how in these labor situations, fans always tend to gravitate towards ownerships side. The players didn't strike here. Ownership locked them out because they weren't happy with the LAST contract they shoved down the players throats.

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12-11-2012, 12:43 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Their accountants can't make that determination when they are only shown half of the books.

It's only tax fraud if they hide the money altogether. As long as it shows up on the books somewhere it's not tax fraud since SSE & the Panthers are one and the same with the same owners and the same percentage ownership.

I would agree that the players have no right to know what the owners make money on... until the owners decide to tie the players salaries to how much money the franchise makes. Then they have every right to see those books.

They have absolutely no right to see any revenue owners get from entities NOT related to the Panthers. Since SSE and the Panthers are inextricable, the players (and the county government/taxpayers) should have every right to see those books.

It's not worth arguing over since the PA already fought that battle and lost. I'm just pointing out that the current arrangement of determining hockey related revenue certainly plays in ownerships favor.

I really find it curious how in these labor situations, fans always tend to gravitate towards ownerships side. The players didn't strike here. Ownership locked them out because they weren't happy with the LAST contract they shoved down the players throats.
you and me both. rich old fortunate white guys? dime a dozen. we're not here if not for the players and they are the ones putting life and limb on the line every night.

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12-11-2012, 05:23 PM
  #89
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Kulikov is injured. Any word what the injury is?

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12-12-2012, 01:58 PM
  #90
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Kulikov is injured. Any word what the injury is?
He's injured?

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12-13-2012, 08:03 AM
  #91
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Crap I hate that I have info that I cant really share about the lockout. Not good or bad news per se but just interesting insight into things related to the Panthers.

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12-13-2012, 02:35 PM
  #92
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Crap I hate that I have info that I cant really share about the lockout. Not good or bad news per se but just interesting insight into things related to the Panthers.
Let us know and nobody gets hurt.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:59 AM
  #93
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Crap I hate that I have info that I cant really share about the lockout. Not good or bad news per se but just interesting insight into things related to the Panthers.
Saying that to us is like giving someone a present and then immediatly taking it back and saying you can't have it, not cool man...

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12-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeycast View Post
Saying that to us is like giving someone a present and then immediatly taking it back and saying you can't have it, not cool man...
Sorry I just cant jeopardize my job by saying something. Once the lockout is over, I'll share what it was exactly. Like I said, its not something thats earth-shattering type stuff about the lockout...just interesting if you wanted to know about some behind-the-scenes stuff.

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12-15-2012, 04:59 PM
  #95
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seems players are voting to de-certify the union and go to court. the nhl already filed suit in court. it appears that this season is toast!!!!

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12-16-2012, 05:34 AM
  #96
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If no NHL season will Weiss become a UFA in the off season?

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12-16-2012, 09:14 AM
  #97
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probably yes, but i guess it depends on the language in the new cba.

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12-16-2012, 11:08 AM
  #98
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probably yes, but i guess it depends on the language in the new cba.
Yep, could be that there's no cba, every player is UFA.

JOL


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12-17-2012, 08:23 AM
  #99
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Quote:
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If no NHL season will Weiss become a UFA in the off season?
Yes, all contracts were signed as "years" not seasons so he will be an UFA.

Now, currently the league has filed a lawsuit against the players. In the lawsuit, they are basically saying that if the players decertify (which is what is going to a vote among the union this week) that all contracts are no longer valid. That means even guys like Huberdeau, Markstrom, Guds, etc would ALL be UFAs in the offseason. But that would also mean guys like Crosby, Datsyuk, Stamkos, etc are also all UFAs. Here's what TSN says about the lawsuit:
Quote:
What's The Second Thing The NHL Is Asking For?

They are asking the Court to declare all player contracts void if the NHLPA disclaims or decertifies. The term 'void' means invalid. To read about the differences between decertification and a disclaimer of interest, click here.

Please Explain.

The league is arguing that player contracts are governed by the CBA. By extension, if the collective bargaining relationship between the players and the owners ceases by way of the disclaimer of interest or decertification, then the player contracts should also cease. That would make them void. This might be a tough argument for the NHL to make successfully. A judge may not want to strike down the contracts unless the player contracts actually say they are void under these circumstances.

Is The NHL's Lawsuit A Surprise?

No. The NBA did precisely the same thing in August 2011. The NBA filed its lawsuit in New York, asked the Court to declare the lockout legal, and requested that the Court declare all NBA player contracts void if the NBPA was dissolved by way of a disclaimer or decertification.

So that's why the NHL's strategy sounds familiar.
So keep in mind that the NBA & those players did the same thing last yr and it eventually just got a deal done so they were playing by XMas (not gonna happen with hockey but maybe by Jan 1st for us).

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12-17-2012, 09:51 AM
  #100
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This peice on TSN is quite good.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411804

What's The Second Thing The NHL Is Asking For?

They are asking the Court to declare all player contracts void if the NHLPA disclaims or decertifies.

I find it kind of funny for them to want the contacts declared void. I know it's to avoid the anti trust law suit but if you think about it. If the CBA is done which means no contracts, no draft, everyone is a UFA. It also means no salary cap. I wonder what would happen then.

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