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General UFC/MMA/boxing discussion - Bute vs. Pascal?

View Poll Results: Who wins a fight between Lucian Bute and Jean Pascal ?
Lucian Bute 9 33.33%
Jean Pascal 17 62.96%
Draw 1 3.70%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-29-2012, 09:37 PM
  #326
PhysicX
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I'll never understand how people favor GSP over Anderson Silva... Beyond me.

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11-29-2012, 11:10 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I've seen him look vulnerable a few times in tough spots. Against Shields he was going on and on about his eye and seemed to panic a bit. Against condit you can hear him talking to his corner concerned after the 3rd round. He hasn't been really tested, but that's a testament to his skill level.
As you said, that's a testament to his skill. He's rarely in a vulnerable position, so I think his concerns were legitimate. The fact that he went back there during those fights and finished them well shows that he's mentally tough. He's managed to bounce back after his losses. If he wasn't strong mentally, he wouldn't have been able to do that. His ability to overcome adversity and constantly improve is what makes him strong in opinion. If he does a mistake, he's not afraid to point it out and he'll do what he can to improve. He doesn't put the blame on others.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How is GSP stronger mentally? It was the first time he got knocked down and recuperated when fighting Condit. The only other time was versus Serra and he lost, an embarrassing loss.
Silva has lost 4rounds to Sonnen but won in the 5th.
Both have proven to be very strong mentally, but I think Silva is the one that looks more invincible. It's not that he hasn't lost yet in the UFC, it's that his opponents never even hurt him. He also destroyed his opponents. You can also see that his opponents respect him a lot by the way they move in the octagon.
GSP, while dominating his opponents, never destroyed them, and it was also shown that he can get hurt.
The fact that he was able to recuperate after getting knocked down against Condit shows that he's strong and that he has improved since Serra. He also came back and EASILY disposed of Serra after his loss.

I'm not saying that GSP is stronger than Silva so you pointing out that GSP has never destroyed his opponents while Silva has, has nothing to do with it. I'm just pointing out that I believe that mentally, GSP is the toughest. Personal opinion. I don't favor GSP in this matchup, but I think he has what it takes to beat Silva, if not to deliver a great fight at the very least.

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12-01-2012, 12:01 AM
  #328
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I thought his excuse about not fighting Silva now was pretty bad.
''Not fighting him because what's next?'' Seriously?..
The same can be said of every Champion when they defend a title, especially if they've done it a few times.
I agree he needs another fight as WW, but that's to get rid of all rust, not because there's nothing after Silva.

Him jumping to MW and staying there made more sense as an excuse.
Assuming he beats Silva, the "greatest MW MMA fighter of all time". GSP becomes the greatest PvP MMA fighter. Do you think he'll be content just to defend his MW title at that point? No. And that's the point of his explanation. He feels there's so much still for him to accomplish (and so much money for him to make) before this super-fight. That fight would really be the cherry on the cake, as he said. The PvP title would seal his legacy. Silva may want the fight more because, apparently, he's considering retiring (not sure if true). So it would make more sense to him. GSP is not at that point in his career, far from it. Strategically and business-wise, it is totally stupid for him to fight Silva in the near future.

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12-01-2012, 01:00 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I agree with your smart comment. GSP is probably the best at knowing his limitations and exploiting his opponents weaknesses without putting himself in jeopardy, but as far as being strong mentally and dealing with adversity I don't agree.

I've seen him look vulnerable a few times in tough spots. Against Shields he was going on and on about his eye and seemed to panic a bit. Against condit you can hear him talking to his corner concerned after the 3rd round. He hasn't been really tested, but that's a testament to his skill level.
Who does never panic and never lose focus for few moments? Who?

Thats another testament to his overall mental strenght!

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12-01-2012, 01:40 AM
  #330
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The fact that he was able to recuperate after getting knocked down against Condit shows that he's strong and that he has improved since Serra. He also came back and EASILY disposed of Serra after his loss.

I'm not saying that GSP is stronger than Silva so you pointing out that GSP has never destroyed his opponents while Silva has, has nothing to do with it. I'm just pointing out that I believe that mentally, GSP is the toughest. Personal opinion. I don't favor GSP in this matchup, but I think he has what it takes to beat Silva, if not to deliver a great fight at the very least.
I understand that, I'm just trying to understand how one can come to the conclusion that GSP is stronger mentally without any fanatism.
I'm not saying Silva is the stronger one mentally, both of them are on par.
The reason why I brought up the destruction of opponents is because I talked about who looks more invincible out there.

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Assuming he beats Silva, the "greatest MW MMA fighter of all time". GSP becomes the greatest PvP MMA fighter. Do you think he'll be content just to defend his MW title at that point? No. And that's the point of his explanation. He feels there's so much still for him to accomplish (and so much money for him to make) before this super-fight. That fight would really be the cherry on the cake, as he said. The PvP title would seal his legacy. Silva may want the fight more because, apparently, he's considering retiring (not sure if true). So it would make more sense to him. GSP is not at that point in his career, far from it. Strategically and business-wise, it is totally stupid for him to fight Silva in the near future.
I just don't buy his comment. There is nothing in the WW division. Who's there? Hendricks? Nick Diaz? Not before he climbs back up the ladder. Is that really what needs to be done? After those two, there'll always be someone else.

If GSP was favored to win this fight, I'm pretty sure his decision would be different.

I also found it ironic when he said he wants to be like the Gretzky of the UFC. Well, beating Silva would do exactly just that. Beating Hendricks or Diaz won't do it by lying on top of them for 5 round won't really do that.

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12-01-2012, 05:31 AM
  #331
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I think GSP should move up to MW if he wants to leave a legacy.

He should move up and fight a few guys at MW before fighting Silva next xmas. He should get used to the weight class before fighting the champ

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12-01-2012, 12:08 PM
  #332
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I think GSP should move up to MW if he wants to leave a legacy.

He should move up and fight a few guys at MW before fighting Silva next xmas. He should get used to the weight class before fighting the champ
Why would he do that? Why risk getting a beating a MW if you only really want 1 fight? Not worth the risk, not to his body or his legacy he created at 170lbs.

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12-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #333
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...t-gsp/1738577/

Who would you guys prefer to see fight GSP next? Diaz or Hendricks? Hendricks seems like the logical opponent, but you never know with how the UFC works.

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12-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #334
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Why would he do that? Why risk getting a beating a MW if you only really want 1 fight? Not worth the risk, not to his body or his legacy he created at 170lbs.
Because its a real challenge. There is nothing left for him at WW

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12-01-2012, 02:50 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by PhysicX View Post
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...t-gsp/1738577/

Who would you guys prefer to see fight GSP next? Diaz or Hendricks? Hendricks seems like the logical opponent, but you never know with how the UFC works.
Diaz doesnt deserve a shot. He lost his last fight and got a drug suspension. Now he thinks he should be rewarded with a title fight?

It should be Hendricks or move up to MW

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12-02-2012, 12:11 PM
  #336
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Diaz doesnt deserve a shot. He lost his last fight and got a drug suspension. Now he thinks he should be rewarded with a title fight?

It should be Hendricks or move up to MW
Didn't stop the ufc from giving Chael Sonnen 2 title shots, plus another one coming soon.

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12-02-2012, 01:40 PM
  #337
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Didn't stop the ufc from giving Chael Sonnen 2 title shots, plus another one coming soon.
Thats a fair point but the situation is not exactly the same. Sonnen came close to beating Silva and is a good trash talker. Whether they like him or hate him, people will buy the PPV to watch him fight. So he gets the big fights.

Except for his family, I dont think many people will buy the PPV just cause Diaz is fighting. He failed a drug test, does not show up for mandatory press gigs for the UFC and is basically a huge pain the the UFCs butt.

Why would they reward him with a title fight when all he does it cause trouble?

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12-02-2012, 04:09 PM
  #338
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Thats a fair point but the situation is not exactly the same. Sonnen came close to beating Silva and is a good trash talker. Whether they like him or hate him, people will buy the PPV to watch him fight. So he gets the big fights.

Except for his family, I dont think many people will buy the PPV just cause Diaz is fighting. He failed a drug test, does not show up for mandatory press gigs for the UFC and is basically a huge pain the the UFCs butt.

Why would they reward him with a title fight when all he does it cause trouble?
Because the other guy available is Hendricks.

Diaz didn't dominate Condit, neither did Condit though. It wasn't that great of a fight.
Sonnen dominated A.Silva, but he was under roids and it was also rumored Anderson was injured.
Diaz came in as a Champion of another org. He's just as much of a trash talker as Sonnen, if not more.

A Diaz - GSP would be easier to market and likely gross more.

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12-03-2012, 10:25 AM
  #339
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Why would they reward him with a title fight when all he does it cause trouble?
Nick and Chael both get more chances than anyone, not like any of the ufc is based on a system of fairness. Rampage got more chances than he deserved, even after running his truck down the sidewalk while jacked up. BJ Penn gets the fights he wants, even though he didn't deserve a lot of them. My point being, we can go back through a lot of popular fighters and spot the hypocracy Dana has let flow in the UFC.

Hendricks deserves the shot, but a Diaz/GSP event would probably be the bigger sale on ppv. These two have never fought, and Nick has been calling out Georges for a few years. I would like to see a Diaz/Condit 2 and a GSP/Hendricks myself, all on the same card. Diaz wins, he gets the title shot against the winner of GSP/Hendricks.

I think in a round about way, we are agreeing with each other.

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12-03-2012, 04:44 PM
  #340
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I just don't buy his comment. There is nothing in the WW division. Who's there? Hendricks? Nick Diaz? Not before he climbs back up the ladder. Is that really what needs to be done? After those two, there'll always be someone else.

If GSP was favored to win this fight, I'm pretty sure his decision would be different.

I also found it ironic when he said he wants to be like the Gretzky of the UFC. Well, beating Silva would do exactly just that. Beating Hendricks or Diaz won't do it by lying on top of them for 5 round won't really do that.
Well, the fact that you later commented about the possibility and the interest (from fans) for a Diaz-GSP fight shows there are still fights for GSP in the WM division ---> Still lots of money for him to make. This thing is as much about business (if not more) as it is about records and status in the sport.

Of course if GSP was favored, the decision to fight Silva would have been much easier. That's just common sense. This is much more of a challenge to GSP than it is to Silva and GSP has more to lose than Silva does. So it's completely legitimate to want to take his time and do it on his own terms. I really don't see the problem here.

Wanting to be the Gretzky of the UFC and not wanting to fight Silva in the short term are not contradictions. Better to take your time, make more money and do it on your own terms than to bend to public pressure, take the plunge too quickly, aim too high, screw up and lose everything.

Edit: I just read that the latest rumour has GSP asking for $50M for the fight. If true, not surprised one bit.

"[The source] said that Georges has 10 fights left in his career at $8m a fight. But he believes that Anderson could actually hurt him, could physically hurt him and end his career.

So to take that chance he wants $50m and that's exactly the number he's going to go to Dana White with."

http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/181989.html


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 12-03-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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12-03-2012, 06:15 PM
  #341
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Well, the fact that you later commented about the possibility and the interest (from fans) for a Diaz-GSP fight shows there are still fights for GSP in the WM division ---> Still lots of money for him to make. This thing is as much about business (if not more) as it is about records and status in the sport.

Of course if GSP was favored, the decision to fight Silva would have been much easier. That's just common sense. This is much more of a challenge to GSP than it is to Silva and GSP has more to lose than Silva does. So it's completely legitimate to want to take his time and do it on his own terms. I really don't see the problem here.

Wanting to be the Gretzky of the UFC and not wanting to fight Silva in the short term are not contradictions. Better to take your time, make more money and do it on your own terms than to bend to public pressure, take the plunge too quickly, aim too high, screw up and lose everything.

Edit: I just read that the latest rumour has GSP asking for $50M for the fight. If true, not surprised one bit.

"[The source] said that Georges has 10 fights left in his career at $8m a fight. But he believes that Anderson could actually hurt him, could physically hurt him and end his career.

So to take that chance he wants $50m and that's exactly the number he's going to go to Dana White with."

http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/181989.html

Yahh, not going to happen.

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12-03-2012, 06:28 PM
  #342
Poulet Kostopoulos
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Basically, it's a super lousy deal for GSP at this point unless he's getting crazy money for the fight. Right now, GSP makes more money and is more popular than any MMA fighter by a landslide. He doesn't need this fight at this moment. Silva, on the other hand, can propel himself to GSP's current status as the most popular fighter, and make GSP money, by doing this fight and beating GSP. The risk/reward proposition for Silva is much much more attractive and makes more sense.

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12-03-2012, 09:01 PM
  #343
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Well, the fact that you later commented about the possibility and the interest (from fans) for a Diaz-GSP fight shows there are still fights for GSP in the WM division ---> Still lots of money for him to make. This thing is as much about business (if not more) as it is about records and status in the sport.

Of course if GSP was favored, the decision to fight Silva would have been much easier. That's just common sense. This is much more of a challenge to GSP than it is to Silva and GSP has more to lose than Silva does. So it's completely legitimate to want to take his time and do it on his own terms. I really don't see the problem here.

Wanting to be the Gretzky of the UFC and not wanting to fight Silva in the short term are not contradictions. Better to take your time, make more money and do it on your own terms than to bend to public pressure, take the plunge too quickly, aim too high, screw up and lose everything.

Edit: I just read that the latest rumour has GSP asking for $50M for the fight. If true, not surprised one bit.

"[The source] said that Georges has 10 fights left in his career at $8m a fight. But he believes that Anderson could actually hurt him, could physically hurt him and end his career.

So to take that chance he wants $50m and that's exactly the number he's going to go to Dana White with."

http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/181989.html
The fact he is asking that much shows just how confident he is in winning. There's respecting the opponent, and than there's fright. I think GSP is scared and intimidated.

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12-03-2012, 09:16 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Basically, it's a super lousy deal for GSP at this point unless he's getting crazy money for the fight. Right now, GSP makes more money and is more popular than any MMA fighter by a landslide. He doesn't need this fight at this moment. Silva, on the other hand, can propel himself to GSP's current status as the most popular fighter, and make GSP money, by doing this fight and beating GSP. The risk/reward proposition for Silva is much much more attractive and makes more sense.
Actually, I think it's mainly because there really is nobody left for Silva to fight in his division. You know who's the #2 ranked MW? Michael freaking Bisping.
So who else is there really? Stephen Bonnar? That was a joke.

There's really only two guys. Jones or GSP.

I don't think it has much to do with Silva wanting to propel himself to GSP's popularity.

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12-06-2012, 08:04 PM
  #345
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GSP is fighting Nick Diaz next,theres an article about it on RDS

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12-07-2012, 08:09 PM
  #346
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The fact he is asking that much shows just how confident he is in winning. There's respecting the opponent, and than there's fright. I think GSP is scared and intimidated.
If you want to see fright, go read up on Mayweather vs Pacquio. I think this demand is reasonable. I don't think he's intimidated by Silva, but as he said, he knows that he could potentially end his career. He has no reason to go out of his way to fight him right now. He still has lots of money to make in the welterweight division.

Also, that thing is just a rumor. I think GSP mentioned it wasn't true.

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12-07-2012, 08:36 PM
  #347
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I edited the thread title to keep this as an on-going fighting/related thread. Cool?

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12-07-2012, 09:49 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by PhysicX View Post
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...t-gsp/1738577/

Who would you guys prefer to see fight GSP next? Diaz or Hendricks? Hendricks seems like the logical opponent, but you never know with how the UFC works.
Dana White said that GSP asked for Diaz. So that's probably what's going to happen next.

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12-07-2012, 10:10 PM
  #349
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The fact he is asking that much shows just how confident he is in winning. There's respecting the opponent, and than there's fright. I think GSP is scared and intimidated.
Well the size difference is a bit ridiculous. Plus, Silva's the most dangerous striker in the game and GSP has shown he can get hurt when his opponents are able to hit him significantly. I think it's smart of him to keep away from that fight personnally. Some will call him a chicken because of that, but he's fought everyone in his weight class without a second one, saying he's afraid because he won't fight a guy who could easily be 2 weight classes above him is just stupid IMO.

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12-08-2012, 06:55 PM
  #350
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Dana White said that GSP asked for Diaz. So that's probably what's going to happen next.
Hurray for more take-downs and a bit of ground and pound!
Next!

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