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Newly sharpened skates are an issue

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:41 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
No I didn't miss the point at all, he's wrong. The blades are wider.... the radius is how wide the hollow is. Naturally the radius is wider for a goalie skate than a player skate. A 3/4 radius for a goalie skate is similar to a 1/2 or a 5/8 player cut. A 1/2 cut is similar to a 3/8 player cut. Etc. Going all the way down to 3/8 for a goalie is very drastic. Some goalies may like that but it's still drastic.


I have no idea where you play but that is unheard of... 1/4 is insane. Never in my life have I seen it.


Yeah 1/2 is pretty normal but I wouldn't call it the majority.
You do know the last two top of the line Bauer goalie models both had 3mm holders right?

3/8th's is EXTREMELY common among goalies nowadays because of how much their game has changed. To say 3/4th's is common among the new modern goalie is flat out wrong.

To reiterate myself yet again, you are wrong on this topic. The days of goalies with shallow hollows is largely gone. I personally know of goalies who get 3/8ths and have a taller raised inside edge so they can get even more of a bite.

If sample size and reality based evidence isn't enough for you, just think about it. What are the basic advantages of sharper skates? What explicit gains do you get from moving to it? If you can answer that question, then it becomes extremely obvious why new techniques lend themselves to a sharper cut.

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12-08-2012, 11:57 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
You do know the last two top of the line Bauer goalie models both had 3mm holders right?

3/8th's is EXTREMELY common among goalies nowadays because of how much their game has changed. To say 3/4th's is common among the new modern goalie is flat out wrong.

To reiterate myself yet again, you are wrong on this topic. The days of goalies with shallow hollows is largely gone. I personally know of goalies who get 3/8ths and have a taller raised inside edge so they can get even more of a bite.

If sample size and reality based evidence isn't enough for you, just think about it. What are the basic advantages of sharper skates? What explicit gains do you get from moving to it? If you can answer that question, then it becomes extremely obvious why new techniques lend themselves to a sharper cut.
Ive seen the new bauers and I'm well aware of what a sharper edge can do for a goalie. That still doesn't change the fact of what is what. The average goalie cannot use 3/8... Their ankles are not strong enough and their technique is not good enough. 3/8 is drastic, if an advanced player wants it because of the extra ability to stop and push off than great. Goalies that good are not the average though, they're far better than most which leading back to my first post said, if they're good enough it makes sense but that is far from the normal.

What this seems like is you're dealing with or are part of a strong group of players rather than the everyday public. It'd be like me telling the lowest level beer leaguers that what I may do is the norm because people at my calibre often do it.

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12-08-2012, 02:22 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Ive seen the new bauers and I'm well aware of what a sharper edge can do for a goalie. That still doesn't change the fact of what is what. The average goalie cannot use 3/8... Their ankles are not strong enough and their technique is not good enough. 3/8 is drastic, if an advanced player wants it because of the extra ability to stop and push off than great. Goalies that good are not the average though, they're far better than most which leading back to my first post said, if they're good enough it makes sense but that is far from the normal.

What this seems like is you're dealing with or are part of a strong group of players rather than the everyday public. It'd be like me telling the lowest level beer leaguers that what I may do is the norm because people at my calibre often do it.
I was discussing the modern day advanced goalie. Ie the new young emerging group of goalies who are brought up with the butterfly.

Not your beer league benders who recover by pulling themselves up on the net.

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12-08-2012, 03:49 PM
  #54
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Well I seriously doubt anyone on here is at the junior level or higher and discussing what they should do with their skates.

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12-08-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
No I didn't miss the point at all, he's wrong. The blades are wider.... the radius is how wide the hollow is. Naturally the radius is wider for a goalie skate than a player skate. A 3/4 radius for a goalie skate is similar to a 1/2 or a 5/8 player cut. A 1/2 cut is similar to a 3/8 player cut. Etc. Going all the way down to 3/8 for a goalie is very drastic. Some goalies may like that but it's still drastic.


I have no idea where you play but that is unheard of... 1/4 is insane. Never in my life have I seen it.


Yeah 1/2 is pretty normal but I wouldn't call it the majority.
I think you have to admit that you're missing the point... you can sharpen goalie skates at whatever hollow you want REGARDLESS of how wide the blade is. Most of the goalies in my rink (whom I sharpen skates for) use anything within the 5/8-1/4 range. More of them seem to be going 1/2" and deeper nowadays.

I think you're mind is just still thinking old-school when goalies needed to slide across the crease on their skates. Now, goalies love that extra bite that 3/8" would give them because they can launch themselves across the crease harder and faster while they're in butterfly (sliding on the pads as opposed to on the skates). This is at least what a bunch of goalies have told me.

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12-08-2012, 04:11 PM
  #56
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I think you have to admit that you're missing the point... you can sharpen goalie skates at whatever hollow you want REGARDLESS of how wide the blade is. Most of the goalies in my rink (whom I sharpen skates for) use anything within the 5/8-1/4 range. More of them seem to be going 1/2" and deeper nowadays.

I think you're mind is just still thinking old-school when goalies needed to slide across the crease on their skates. Now, goalies love that extra bite that 3/8" would give them because they can launch themselves across the crease harder and faster while they're in butterfly (sliding on the pads as opposed to on the skates). This is at least what a bunch of goalies have told me.
Of course you CAN. I never said you couldn't do it at any radius, I said it was extreme at that radius which it is. Just like in that Penguins list posted... Gonchar gets his skates done at 1" which is very extreme as evidenced by the comparables around the team. Doesn't mean you CAN'T sharpen at that, just that it's uncommon.

Whether or not narrower hollows are becoming more frequent for goalies is irrelevant as 1/4 is still extreme and far from the norm. I've sharpened maybe 2 pairs of goalie skates at 1/4 in my life whereas nearly every pair of goalie skates that comes in here is at something wider than 1/2".

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12-08-2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Of course you CAN. I never said you couldn't do it at any radius, I said it was extreme at that radius which it is. Just like in that Penguins list posted... Gonchar gets his skates done at 1" which is very extreme as evidenced by the comparables around the team. Doesn't mean you CAN'T sharpen at that, just that it's uncommon.

Whether or not narrower hollows are becoming more frequent for goalies is irrelevant as 1/4 is still extreme and far from the norm. I've sharpened maybe 2 pairs of goalie skates at 1/4 in my life whereas nearly every pair of goalie skates that comes in here is at something wider than 1/2".


just to check, you know when your measuring radius, your not measuring across the blade, your measuring from the depth of the cut into the blade

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12-08-2012, 04:46 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by hyster110 View Post
just to check, you know when your measuring radius, your not measuring across the blade, your measuring from the depth of the cut into the blade
Yes and no. The idea behind the radius is a narrower hollow results in a deeper edge, but really the deepness depends on how many times the blade is passed through the stone. This picture shows it perfectly



So yes you're measuring how deep the cut is but it also effects how wide the cut is as well.

Another picture to elaborate:



Last edited by TieClark: 12-08-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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12-08-2012, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Of course you CAN. I never said you couldn't do it at any radius, I said it was extreme at that radius which it is. Just like in that Penguins list posted... Gonchar gets his skates done at 1" which is very extreme as evidenced by the comparables around the team. Doesn't mean you CAN'T sharpen at that, just that it's uncommon.

Whether or not narrower hollows are becoming more frequent for goalies is irrelevant as 1/4 is still extreme and far from the norm. I've sharpened maybe 2 pairs of goalie skates at 1/4 in my life whereas nearly every pair of goalie skates that comes in here is at something wider than 1/2".
Love how you've changed your mind, in a previous post you said "never in my life have I seen it" and now you've seen it twice?

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12-08-2012, 05:07 PM
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Love how you've changed your mind, in a previous post you said "never in my life have I seen it" and now you've seen it twice?
Mistake on my part, I've sharpened 3/8 maybe twice... once last weekend actually. I've never seen 1/4 for either a player or a goalie.

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12-08-2012, 05:31 PM
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The point I'm trying to make is that it IS common nowadays... just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean that it's not common. Almost every Junior goalie that comes through my rink gets their skates sharpened at a deeper hollow than 1/2". And the depth of a hollow has nothing to do with how many passes you make. Obviously you have to take a certain amount of passes to make the hollow whole and even, but after that, you're just taking off more steel on the whole.



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Mistake on my part, I've sharpened 3/8 maybe twice... once last weekend actually. I've never seen 1/4 for either a player or a goalie.
Well now... the fact that you've never seen a 1/4" cut for even a player must say that either your experience is very limited or the people who's skates you're sharpening don't really know much about hollows. I see at least one person ask for a 1/4" cut per week.

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12-08-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Yes and no. The idea behind the radius is a narrower hollow results in a deeper edge, but really the deepness depends on how many times the blade is passed through the stone. This picture shows it perfectly



So yes you're measuring how deep the cut is but it also effects how wide the cut is as well.

Another picture to elaborate:

your second picture illustrates my point. skate hollow (sharpness) is the radius of the circle, hence why another name is Radius of hollow. doesnt matter if your blade is one inch or 3 inches wide if the radius is still a 1/2 inch



oh and i used to manage a CIS team, one goalie liked his skates at 3/8th, and the other as close to 1/4 as we could get them. the shop i worked in also sharpened goalie skates at sharper than 1/2


Last edited by hyster110: 12-08-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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12-08-2012, 05:40 PM
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The point I'm trying to make is that it IS common nowadays... just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean that it's not common. Almost every Junior goalie that comes through my rink gets their skates sharpened at a deeper hollow than 1/2". And the depth of a hollow has nothing to do with how many passes you make. Obviously you have to take a certain amount of passes to make the hollow whole and even, but after that, you're just taking off more steel on the whole.
Again... junior goalies. As in players that are very good and playing at a very high level which I said in the original post. Junior goalies are not the average customer.

The depth of the hollow absolutely has to do with the amount of passes you take. If you do 5 passes instead of 7, you're hollow is not as deep and the sharpen is not as sharp. If you do 9 instead of 7 the hollower is deeper and you're sharpen is sharper.


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Well now... the fact that you've never seen a 1/4" cut for even a player must say that either your experience is very limited or the people who's skates you're sharpening don't really know much about hollows. I see at least one person ask for a 1/4" cut per week.
Experience isn't limited at all... 1/4" cut for a player is just stupid. You're creating far, far too much friction on the ice therefore limiting speed and expending far more energy in the process.

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Originally Posted by hyster110 View Post
your second picture illustrates my point. skate hollow (sharpness) is the radius of the circle, hence why another name is Radius of hollow. doesnt matter if your blade is one inch or 3 inches wide if the radius is still a 1/2 inch
The width of the blade 100% does matter. That 1/2 inch is far more drastic on a wide blade than the same cut on a smaller blade.

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12-08-2012, 05:43 PM
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Again... junior goalies. As in players that are very good and playing at a very high level which I said in the original post. Junior goalies are not the average customer.

The depth of the hollow absolutely has to do with the amount of passes you take. If you do 5 passes instead of 7, you're hollow is not as deep and the sharpen is not as sharp. If you do 9 instead of 7 the hollower is deeper and you're sharpen is sharper.
not at all, you have your stone set at a certain radius, say 1/2, and after a few passes it will start shaving the whole width of the blade, making the radius a maximum of 1/2.

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12-08-2012, 05:49 PM
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Again... junior goalies. As in players that are very good and playing at a very high level which I said in the original post. Junior goalies are not the average customer.
He didn't say what level. He could just be meaning juniors in general i.e teenagers. They could be junior A or junior C or even house players.

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12-08-2012, 05:57 PM
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not at all, you have your stone set at a certain radius, say 1/2, and after a few passes it will start shaving the whole width of the blade, making the radius a maximum of 1/2.
I'm not sure if you sharpen skates or not, but take a look at goalie skate sharpened at 1/2" and compare it to a players skate. It's far more drastic because the blade is wider.

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He didn't say what level. He could just be meaning juniors in general i.e teenagers. They could be junior A or junior C or even house players.
Junior in Canada means either CHL (OHL, WHL, QMJHL) or Junior A-D. Minor hockey would be house players

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12-08-2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I'm not sure if you sharpen skates or not, but take a look at goalie skate sharpened at 1/2" and compare it to a players skate. It's far more drastic because the blade is wider.


Junior in Canada means either CHL (OHL, WHL, QMJHL) or Junior A-D. Minor hockey would be house players
i do sharpen skates, and next time look at the part of the post i was replying to

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12-08-2012, 06:03 PM
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i do sharpen skates, and next time look at the part of the post i was replying to
Sorry, that's still not true however. Eventually it gets to a point where you're not getting any deeper, but 5 passes compared to 7 and 7 to 9 does effect how deep the hollow is. Ideally you're getting a full 1/2" cut right down the middle every time. That isn't the case though, especially in stores that sharpen 100~ skates a day.

For example when someone asks for a 1/2" cut but not too sharp, you run it through the stone less times in order to make it less sharp. You don't change it to a 5/8" cut.

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12-08-2012, 06:05 PM
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Junior in Canada means either CHL (OHL, WHL, QMJHL) or Junior A-D. Minor hockey would be house players
Junior C and D is still pretty crap

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12-08-2012, 06:07 PM
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Junior C and D is still pretty crap
Not really. That's still mostly "AA" and up players with a few "A" players in there and they're committed enough to be playing several days a week and traveling all over the place.

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12-08-2012, 06:25 PM
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Not really. That's still mostly "AA" and up players with a few "A" players in there and they're committed enough to be playing several days a week and traveling all over the place.
I'd say it's a good representation of "average"

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12-08-2012, 06:29 PM
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Sorry, that's still not true however. Eventually it gets to a point where you're not getting any deeper, but 5 passes compared to 7 and 7 to 9 does effect how deep the hollow is. Ideally you're getting a full 1/2" cut right down the middle every time. That isn't the case though, especially in stores that sharpen 100~ skates a day.

For example when someone asks for a 1/2" cut but not too sharp, you run it through the stone less times in order to make it less sharp. You don't change it to a 5/8" cut.
see when i sharpen my skated before i start counting passes, i make sure the whole blade is being touched by the stone, usually meaning that its not getting deeper. as far as i go, if someone finds the blades too sharp i make the hollow less deep. that way they are still getting even edges

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12-08-2012, 06:43 PM
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I'd say it's a good representation of "average"
Not really. It'd be far and away the best level my rink offers and my rink hosts the largest mens league in the GTA league wise.

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Originally Posted by hyster110 View Post
see when i sharpen my skated before i start counting passes, i make sure the whole blade is being touched by the stone, usually meaning that its not getting deeper. as far as i go, if someone finds the blades too sharp i make the hollow less deep. that way they are still getting even edges
We always grind the blade down for a fresh start first, and then make sure the line is straight. After that it's just counting passes.

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12-08-2012, 08:21 PM
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I am 5-10.5" and weigh 168 lbs (just lost 36 pounds ) and have have skated/played for 2.5 years.

The issue is that after I get my skates sharpened, I have to grind down the blades for about 20 minutes by side-scraping them on the ice so that I can easily hockey stop. When I try to hockey stop on either side, the back foot "chucks" on the ice and does not flow smoothly like the leading skate.

I originally started with a 7/16" cut and now use a 9/16th" but think I should try a 5/8" or even flatter so that the skates are comfortable right after a sharpening. I've read that there should not be an adjustment period needed after they are sharpened. I have to admit that I might be waiting too long between sharpenings, but it is this initial discomfort period that I am trying to avoid.

Am I using too deep a cut and should go flatter to say, the 5/8", or could it be my technique? I realize without video this will be a guess but I was hoping to gain some thoughtful insights.
5/8" is fine, use what you feel comfortable with. I'm 205lbs & use a 5/8", been skating all my life (I get my skates re-sharpened every 3 games or sooner if I lose an edge). As your skating ability improves, move a bit deeper @ your weight 1/2" or less shouldn't be a problem, & you'll become much more agile. & congrats on the weight loss.

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12-09-2012, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post

The depth of the hollow absolutely has to do with the amount of passes you take. If you do 5 passes instead of 7, you're hollow is not as deep and the sharpen is not as sharp. If you do 9 instead of 7 the hollower is deeper and you're sharpen is sharper.
Absolutely and totally 100% wrong.

It does not matter at all how many passes you make on a blade, a 1/2" hollow is a 1/2" hollow....period.

More passes just takes off excessive amounts of steel. It's basic math and the depth will always be the same no matter how many passes you make. You are just plain wrong on that statement.

Additionally, goalies are going sharper and sharper just as people are saying. We consistently do 1/2" or less on goal skates, even on kids and beginners. As a matter of fact, we even have some kids asking for inside edge high sharpening for an even more pronounced edge for pushing off in the butterfly.

And these aren't high end junior players, but your average mid Atlantic single and double a travel 10 to 16 year olds.

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