HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Players Starting to Ask Uncomfortable Questions of NHLPA Leadership

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-08-2012, 03:30 PM
  #26
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
That makes no sense whatsoever. What is Fehr gaining here in personal terms?
A bigger ego.

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 04:07 PM
  #27
Boltsfan2029
Registered User
 
Boltsfan2029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In deleted threads
Country: United States
Posts: 6,286
vCash: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
That makes no sense whatsoever. What is Fehr gaining here in personal terms?
His "legacy."

Boltsfan2029 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 04:14 PM
  #28
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,521
vCash: 1071
I think a large number of players from the start haven't been behind Fehr . If i'm a 3rd/4th liner , bottom pair D or a back up goalie i knew these negotiations weren't about me so why should they support Fehr .

hotpaws is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 04:19 PM
  #29
DuklaNation
Registered User
 
DuklaNation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,827
vCash: 500
A lot of lawyers like dragging things out to boost their fees (indirect as well). Wouldnt surprise me if thats Fehr's true motive.

DuklaNation is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 04:30 PM
  #30
Boltsfan2029
Registered User
 
Boltsfan2029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In deleted threads
Country: United States
Posts: 6,286
vCash: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
A lot of lawyers like dragging things out to boost their fees (indirect as well). Wouldnt surprise me if thats Fehr's true motive.
Except that he's not getting paid.

Will he receive compensation at the conclusion of the negotiations? That's an interesting thought - is he working on some sort of percentage the way plaintiffs' attorneys do (they get a percentage of any eventual settlement, the amount being governed by the local rules/statutes/whatever)?

Boltsfan2029 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 04:40 PM
  #31
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
So, I guess this means you have a strategy of convincing the owners to accept 57/43 and unlimited term
Owners already proposed 57/43 back in july, players didn't like it.

Pepper is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 05:01 PM
  #32
RC51
Registered User
 
RC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,650
vCash: 500
I cant understand why Fehr always says the players have done the vast majority of concession. He makes it sound like the players have given to league over a billion to start with. This is NOT true. It's a complete misrepresentation of facts. The last CBA is over. it's not longer valid. Everyone starts at zero. The Players don't have a 57% share and are willing to give up 7% and therefore over a billion in money. As of the end of the last CBA the players have exactly zero. Now if we were in the 4th year of a 6 year deal and the players give back a Billion the statement when then be true. This idea that the players are giving back anything is a false assumption. The players currently don't have anything to give.
This is a new CBA not an extension of a current CBA.

RC51 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 05:02 PM
  #33
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
His view is that as many as 6 teams are on the brink of folding if no season is played this year, and he names them. Claims contraction is more likely to come versus relocation, followed eventually by the issuance of expansion franchises to QC & GTA.

https://soundcloud.com/thecharlesadl...est-on-the-nhl
The Hurricanes just added a new ownership coalition, signed a new media deal, hit a STH record and inked two major player additions... they'd be profitable or break-even at worst under a new CBA... they're owned by a billionaire... but they're going to fold this summer.

Yeah, ok. Makes sense. Good thing this guy has his finger on the pulse of the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39
What the players should be asking Fehr is why he's giving their money away to negotiate for smaller victories than what they're losing.
The players appear to be falling back on the position that they're fighting for the next CBA and future generations.

Which is of course a great line to push when your decisions have caused immediate losses to everyone involved.

tarheelhockey is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 05:06 PM
  #34
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,041
vCash: 500
I find it funny... the very, very small amount of players that anonymously say stuff like this are never in any of the meetings, never reaching out to be more informed about what's happening, and then make comments based on what he says to the media.

It's very likely he said that for bargaining leverage... I mean the PA offered 8 years with a 6 year buyout... 2 years less than the NHL's proposal. Clearly they aren't that concerned about a short term CBA, yet if they say that they lose leverage to claim agreeing to a 10 year CBA is a concession. This is basic bargaining.

TieClark is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:09 PM
  #35
Kingler
 
Kingler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 890
vCash: 500
IMO the problem is that any deal that NHLPA will accept now will undoubtedly be worst off than the original 82 games deal offered by the NHL in late October. If the union would have taken that offer or seriously use that offer and tweak it, then perhaps entire season (and paychecks) would have been saved

But Fehr and the negotiating committee held out for more. The rep told their teammates that there will be more, much more. In the end they did get more but the bottom-line money is less. And IMO they are stuck. If they accept the deal by NHL now, then most players will be left to wonder why had they not accepted the deal in October. They would have been better off in term of actual paycheck. So now, i think, Fehr will have to find "an out" because just going for more money in the make whole isn't enough. His reputation would be ruin

He essentially need a "moral victory" here. Some term in the new CBA that is unquantifiable. IMO that's the contract length. So now, he's telling players like Backes how less years mean less money for the middle guys. He's probably telling them if they get 8 years it would actually mean more to them than the salary lost thus far. The math is quite simple too, loss 1 year gain 3 years (owner offers 5 years). Of course not many players will get 8 years

So now Fehr is probably showing the players the worst case scenario. (not saying that it might not happen). And the players will keep fighting....but IMO they are essentially fighting for Fehr reputation at this point

Kingler is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:15 PM
  #36
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,394
vCash: 5602
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
A bigger ego.
Once again, he is using the players for personal gain because __________.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
His "legacy."
Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

GKJ is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:22 PM
  #37
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
I cant understand why Fehr always says the players have done the vast majority of concession. He makes it sound like the players have given to league over a billion to start with. This is NOT true. It's a complete misrepresentation of facts. The last CBA is over. it's not longer valid. Everyone starts at zero. The Players don't have a 57% share and are willing to give up 7% and therefore over a billion in money. As of the end of the last CBA the players have exactly zero. Now if we were in the 4th year of a 6 year deal and the players give back a Billion the statement when then be true. This idea that the players are giving back anything is a false assumption. The players currently don't have anything to give.
This is a new CBA not an extension of a current CBA.
You come up to me and grab the sandwich out of my hands, I say "you stole my sandwich" and you suggest that you are merely "relocating excess foodstuffs in order to better address hunger in alternative segments of the population." Your framing of the situation may be in some respects accurate but that doesn't change the fact that as far as I am concerned you are eating my sandwich and I don't much like that.

Powdered Toast Man is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:27 PM
  #38
castle
HFBoards Sponsor
 
castle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 776
vCash: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
You come up to me and grab the sandwich out of my hands, I say "you stole my sandwich" and you suggest that you are merely "relocating excess foodstuffs in order to better address hunger in alternative segments of the population." Your framing of the situation may be in some respects accurate but that doesn't change the fact that as far as I am concerned you are eating my sandwich and I don't much like that.
the more appropriate analogy would be...

your and your boss signed a contract so that every day you and your boss get a foot long sandwich delivered. the boss pays for delivery, the dining room, and incidentals. you split the sandwich 57/43 in your favour. the contract ended and the boss says... I don't like that contract. let's go 50/50.


Last edited by castle: 12-08-2012 at 06:38 PM.
castle is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:29 PM
  #39
frankthefrowner
Registered User
 
frankthefrowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,660
vCash: 500
Does someone have any idea in terms of Dollars how much the players would have lost by taking 50/50 per player? Would it be as much as 1 seasons salary? Especailly in terms of guys like Richards and Kovalchuk with tremendously front loaded contracts.

frankthefrowner is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:33 PM
  #40
Cirris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Crackport
Country: United States
Posts: 2,777
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Cirris
Here's an interesting question to ponder.

Would you think that Donald Fehr would want the NHLPA to blow it up and de-certify and then challenge the NHL in anti-trust courts??

Because in the past NHLPA seems like the only sports union that's been willing to lose entire seasons and would be stubborn enough to holdout long term.

Other sports unions have used decertification as a ploy. But they've never used it as a long term strategy and seen the court process to fruition.

Cirris is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:36 PM
  #41
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by castle View Post
the more appropriate analogy would be...

your and your boss signed a contract so that every day you and your boss get a foot long sandwich delivered. the boss pays for delivery, the dining room, and incidentals. you split the sandwich 74/43 in your favour. the contract ended and the boss says... I don't like that contract. let's go 50/50.
The players are facing making a rather significant amount less than they were yesterday. That's how they see it and how they will continue to see it. There is such a thing as different perspectives. One is not necessarily right.

Powdered Toast Man is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:37 PM
  #42
Boltsfan2029
Registered User
 
Boltsfan2029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In deleted threads
Country: United States
Posts: 6,286
vCash: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Yeah, I'm sure that's it.
That's my opinion. I don't insist that anyone agree with it.

Boltsfan2029 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:39 PM
  #43
MoreOrr
B4
 
MoreOrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mexico
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Stuff like this is exactly why the players are going to lose again.


Everyday I read posts that say completely contrary things. Yesterday, I read a dozen posts from different people saying that the players won in the last CBA, today posts that the owners won; everyday it's the same, just as many people arguing one side as the other. If WE here can't even agree on who "won" (assuming there was a "winner") in the last CBA (after 7 years of seeing the results), then how in the **** are we anywhere near qualified to know who's winning in this one. haha.

MoreOrr is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:43 PM
  #44
The Bob Cole
Ohhhh Baby.
 
The Bob Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Centre Ice
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Yeah, I'm sure that's it.
Why not? He's going to have future bargaining positions as a leader for other unions if he moves on from the NHLPA and he wants to be known as a hardliner for the union.

If we wants more $$$ in the future for his role (I'm sure he's already making astronomical amounts) he better keep up his persona and not back down, or else other unions may view him as a weak 'leader' and gives-in to the other side too easily. "What have you done [for me ] lately... "

The Bob Cole is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:50 PM
  #45
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,582
vCash: 500
Fehr came out of retirement for this gig after having a very, very successful run with the MLBPA. He may have wanted more accolades but he certainly didn't need them.

Michael Jordon playing for the Wizards may have hurt him a bit, but it certainly didn't kill his legacy.

Yes, I did just compare Fehr to Jordan.

Powdered Toast Man is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:51 PM
  #46
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,394
vCash: 5602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
That's my opinion. I don't insist that anyone agree with it.
Well that's fine, it just doesn't make any sense, and doesn't explain how he's "using the players." It was the players wanted his help, not him banging down their door.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stovepipe Cup View Post
Why not? He's going to have future bargaining positions as a leader for other unions if he moves on from the NHLPA and he wants to be known as a hardliner for the union.

If we wants more $$$ in the future for his role (I'm sure he's already making astronomical amounts) he better keep up his persona and not back down, or else other unions may view him as a weak 'leader' and gives-in to the other side too easily. "What have you done [for me ] lately... "
He was already Union head of the MLBPA, and came down to the NHLPA. There's no going up.

GKJ is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 06:59 PM
  #47
PlagerBros*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 572
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I find it funny... the very, very small amount of players that anonymously say stuff like this are never in any of the meetings, never reaching out to be more informed about what's happening, and then make comments based on what he says to the media.
How do you know they aren't in meetings? How do you know they aren't reaching out to be more informed? If I posted that these guys are a majority and that Fehr refused to keep them informed, you would call BS, but you choose to post assumptions based on nothing of fact.


Quote:
It's very likely he said that for bargaining leverage... I mean the PA offered 8 years with a 6 year buyout... 2 years less than the NHL's proposal. Clearly they aren't that concerned about a short term CBA, yet if they say that they lose leverage to claim agreeing to a 10 year CBA is a concession. This is basic bargaining.
Sorry, but the opt out shows what the PA truly is offering. The NHL wants 10 years to have stability and the Fehrs (errr, "PA") wants 6 to be able to try to make another money grab as soon as possible.

Fehr makes Bettman look like a loveable guy whose only concern is the fans, even at the expense of his bosses. Fehr has a well earned reputation as someone who looks out for himself first, the big names in his union second and the sport dead last. As long as he hurts a league bad he is happy, anything else is failure in his mind.

PlagerBros* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:01 PM
  #48
Gotaf7
Registered User
 
Gotaf7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winterpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirris View Post
Here's an interesting question to ponder.

Would you think that Donald Fehr would want the NHLPA to blow it up and de-certify and then challenge the NHL in anti-trust courts??

Because in the past NHLPA seems like the only sports union that's been willing to lose entire seasons and would be stubborn enough to holdout long term.

Other sports unions have used decertification as a ploy. But they've never used it as a long term strategy and seen the court process to fruition.
I think this has been Fehrs end game from the get go!

Gotaf7 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:02 PM
  #49
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The players appear to be falling back on the position that they're fighting for the next CBA and future generations.

Which is of course a great line to push when your decisions have caused immediate losses to everyone involved.
I've heard that, too, but if anything, I think hurting themselves financially in these negotiations more than necessary is going to weaken their resolve, and hence their leverage, in the next negotiations more than it strengthens them.

They may have hurt the owners, but they hurt themselves more, and leverage is a comparison between two sides.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:05 PM
  #50
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,582
vCash: 500
There is a happy medium between Fehr being Stalin reincarnated and everyone being completely satisfied with the PA's strategy up till now.

Powdered Toast Man is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.