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Old
12-08-2012, 06:47 PM
  #226
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Well that would at least be entertaining
Sure, if Kesler and a draft pick were coming to Toronto along with Roberto.

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12-08-2012, 06:51 PM
  #227
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Sure, if Kesler and a draft pick were coming to Toronto along with Roberto.
Wouldn't that go against your "lose at all cost so we can draft superstars" frame of mind?

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12-08-2012, 07:04 PM
  #228
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Sure, if Kesler and a draft pick were coming to Toronto along with Roberto.
Sure just add lupul gardiner jvr and Reilly

I wouldn't trade kesler alone for kessel let alone kesler luongo's and a pick! Lol

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12-08-2012, 07:08 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Might as well close the thread until then.
More than anything im saying we cant just say "this could happen in the next cba, so it 100% lowers Lu's trade value".

Im just opposed to saying "this is for sure going to be in the next cba" when negotiations have been as wihy washy as they can get.

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12-08-2012, 07:10 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Sure just add lupul gardiner jvr and Reilly

I wouldn't trade kesler alone for kessel let alone kesler luongo's and a pick! Lol
I would without looking back, but that's besides he point

I like Bozak and Kadri as 2/3 pieces, I just want that first included but I know how much it means to to Toronto in this draft

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12-08-2012, 07:17 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Wouldn't that go against your "lose at all cost so we can draft superstars" frame of mind?
That's not my frame of mind at all and I'm not sure where I said such a thing. In today's NHL, one of the key ingredients to success is bringing talent along in a system that is synchronized with the parent club. That takes time and patience.

You don't throw away the pieces that "grew up" with your team, especially ones that show improvement over time, for an aging veteran.

Growing as a team, vying for the playoffs, accumulating draft picks >>>>>>>>>>>> trading it for one year of good (maybe) goaltending.

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12-08-2012, 07:20 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
That's not my frame of mind at all and I'm not sure where I said such a thing. In today's NHL, one of the key ingredients to success is bringing talent along in a system that is synchronized with the parent club. That takes time and patience.

You don't throw away the pieces that "grew up" with your team, especially ones that show improvement over time, for an aging veteran.

Growing as a team, vying for the playoffs, accumulating draft picks >>>>>>>>>>>> trading it for one year of good (maybe) goaltending.
Wow...so Luongo is done at 34. Don't tell Brodeur...he might start to decline.

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12-08-2012, 07:21 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I would without looking back, but that's besides he point

I like Bozak and Kadri as 2/3 pieces, I just want that first included but I know how much it means to to Toronto in this draft
Who would be our 2C then? Max lapierre? Jordan Schroeder? We need a 2C more than a top line right winger and we have one of the best 2nd line centres in the league kessel puts up maybe an extra 10-20 points a year but kesler makes up for that with his selke caliber defense

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12-08-2012, 07:24 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
That's not my frame of mind at all and I'm not sure where I said such a thing. In today's NHL, one of the key ingredients to success is bringing talent along in a system that is synchronized with the parent club. That takes time and patience.

You don't throw away the pieces that "grew up" with your team, especially ones that show improvement over time, for an aging veteran.

Growing as a team, vying for the playoffs, accumulating draft picks >>>>>>>>>>>> trading it for one year of good (maybe) goaltending.
How does Luongo, an elite goaltender who just helped bring his team two president trophies, only give you "maybe" one good year? Moreover, would it not implore Toronto to actually develop a winning environment to attract some UFAs? Evidently, accumulating picks was not apart of Burke's MO, as he traded two to acquire Kessel.

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12-08-2012, 07:26 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
More than anything im saying we cant just say "this could happen in the next cba, so it 100% lowers Lu's trade value".

Im just opposed to saying "this is for sure going to be in the next cba" when negotiations have been as wihy washy as they can get.
So you believe teams will still be able to bury players in the minors and avoid the cap hit? I know that situation makes nucks fans feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but do honestly believe for one minute, this will be allowed to continue?

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12-08-2012, 07:26 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Wow...so Luongo is done at 34. Don't tell Brodeur...he might start to decline.
Roberto has certainly been showing signs of losing the dominance that he was known for, for most of his career.

In the situation that the Leafs currently find themselves in, it would be a mistake to trade any of their youth for a goaltender on the decline.

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12-08-2012, 07:27 PM
  #237
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I would without looking back, but that's besides he point

I like Bozak and Kadri as 2/3 pieces, I just want that first included but I know how much it means to to Toronto in this draft
Bozak, Kadri and a later pick (2nd/3rd). I doubt 'nucks, Leaf fans would be happy with that however

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12-08-2012, 07:29 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Evidently, accumulating picks was not apart of Burke's MO, as he traded two to acquire Kessel.
Indeed. It's not every day that young, consistent thirty goal scorers are made available for trade and it's important to note that Burke didn't part with the picks for an aging veteran.

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12-08-2012, 07:30 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Bozak, Kadri and a later pick (2nd/3rd). I doubt 'nucks, Leaf fans would be happy with that however
We would not. A first, yes but otherwise that value is just too low. I'd come off the first if Lupul were involved but Bozak and Kadri do not add enough impact without said pick.

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12-08-2012, 07:41 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Roberto has certainly been showing signs of losing the dominance that he was known for, for most of his career.

In the situation that the Leafs currently find themselves in, it would be a mistake to trade any of their youth for a goaltender on the decline.
I think the people who actually watch him play regularly would disagree that he's slowing down. However you're free to fabricate whatever scenario floats your boat.

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12-08-2012, 07:43 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Except he does not have a bad contract no matter the way you attempt to word it. While term may be lengthily, there are a number of options structured into the deal to make it more than manageable. As has been suggested repeatedly, trading him to a cap floor cap is probably one of the best. We have nothing else for us to "know" because we already know our options.
What logic is involved in a cap floor team wanting Lou. First off, Lou has a NTC. Second of all, why would a team aquire a goalie under contract until the age of 42? The contract is likely not insured, and a team that floats around the cap floor, usually means they dont have alot of money, yet they will take on a contract for a player till 42? I guess they do this to help out the Nucks, just cause, and of course some Nucks fans also expect a significant return as well. What a joke.

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12-08-2012, 07:46 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
What logic is involved in a cap floor team wanting Lou. First off, Lou has a NTC. Second of all, why would a team aquire a goalie under contract until the age of 42? The contract is likely not insured, and a team that floats around the cap floor, usually means they dont have alot of money, yet they will take on a contract for a player till 42? I guess they do this to help out the Nucks, just cause, and of course some Nucks fans also expect a significant return as well. What a joke.
Yeah, why would Luongo waive his (limited) NTC to Florida?

And just because you don't understand that teams have to have a certain amount of cap hits in order to reach the cap floor, so if a smaller market team could get a higher cap hit with a lower salary, then the owners save money, as they pay less to reach the cap floor, doesn't make it a joke.

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12-08-2012, 07:56 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Kessel for Luongo str8 up, HF then explodes
value is close, maybe add a third round pick from the leafs.

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12-08-2012, 07:57 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
What logic is involved in a cap floor team wanting Lou. First off, Lou has a NTC. Second of all, why would a team aquire a goalie under contract until the age of 42? The contract is likely not insured, and a team that floats around the cap floor, usually means they dont have alot of money, yet they will take on a contract for a player till 42? I guess they do this to help out the Nucks, just cause, and of course some Nucks fans also expect a significant return as well. What a joke.
You recall how Florida had to overpay scrub UFAs to reach the cap floor this past season? Luongo would be ideal for them, seeing while his cap remains, the dollar value is less over the final three years than Upshall's for one. If Lu was declining by this point, he would be easily obtainable for little cost to boot. The NTC is of little consequence, just waive him if he threatened to refuse a trade.

Cap floor teams love contracts like this.

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12-08-2012, 07:58 PM
  #245
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Yeah, why would Luongo waive his (limited) NTC to Florida?

And just because you don't understand that teams have to have a certain amount of cap hits in order to reach the cap floor, so if a smaller market team could get a higher cap hit with a lower salary, then the owners save money, as they pay less to reach the cap floor, doesn't make it a joke.
So he would waive for Forida; what other cap floor teams would he go to? 10 more maybe? You avoided the question again, why does Florida trade for a player who is under contract till the age of 42?? Where is the logic in that. I guess his salary is less than the cap hit at the end of his contract, but it doesnt matter if his play declines significantly in his late 30"s and early 40"s? What if he really declines in with 4 years or less on the contract? I guess the team can buy him out? They have alot of money afterall. I guess not being able to insure that contract is not an issue either? Again, skipping around the facts yet again.

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12-08-2012, 08:01 PM
  #246
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So he would waive for Forida; what other cap floor teams would he go to? 10 more maybe? You avoided the question again, why does Florida trade for a player who is under contract till the age of 42?? Where is the logic in that. I guess his salary is less than the cap hit at the end of his contract, but it doesnt matter if his play declines significantly in his late 30"s and early 40"s? What if he really declines in with 4 years or less on the contract? I guess the team can buy him out? They have alot of money afterall. I guess not being able to insure that contract is not an issue either? Again, skipping around the facts yet again.
It doesn't matter how good he is, he'd likely be a backup and veteran presence on the team. The whole point is that the owner saves $4 million by taking on his contract instead of having to pay full salary to reach the cap floor for however long he's there.

If you don't understand it then there's not much more I can do.

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12-08-2012, 08:01 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
You recall how Florida had to overpay scrub UFAs to reach the cap floor this past season? Luongo would be ideal for them, seeing while his cap remains, the dollar value is less over the final three years than Upshall's for one. If Lu was declining by this point, he would be easily obtainable for little cost to boot. The NTC is of little consequence, just waive him if he threatened to refuse a trade.

Cap floor teams love contracts like this.
Cap floor teams love contracts that have 9 years left, and the goalie will be 42 and the end of it, and the contract cannot be insured? So these are the contracts that are so sought after by cap floor teams??? You've proved me right again, this is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen here. Please provide proof and a quote how teams want 9 year contracts.

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12-08-2012, 08:03 PM
  #248
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So he would waive for Forida; what other cap floor teams would he go to? 10 more maybe? You avoided the question again, why does Florida trade for a player who is under contract till the age of 42?? Where is the logic in that. I guess his salary is less than the cap hit at the end of his contract, but it doesnt matter if his play declines significantly in his late 30"s and early 40"s? What if he really declines in with 4 years or less on the contract? I guess the team can buy him out? They have alot of money afterall. I guess not being able to insure that contract is not an issue either? Again, skipping around the facts yet again.
Okay, let us paint a pretty picture. Say Luongo declines around 39. Now the Leafs want to sell him off obviously. Would they be demanding a high price or maybe just a low pick to "buy capspace"? Odds are the latter. Therefore, a salary floor team would happily toss a second or third to save money. Bonus if they wish to acquire a mentor for their own prospect.

You are making far too big a deal over his "what if" contract. Contrary to HF belief. It does not suck.

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12-08-2012, 08:03 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Cap floor teams love contracts that have 9 years left, and the goalie will be 42 and the end of it, and the contract cannot be insured? So these are the contracts that are so sought after by cap floor teams??? You've proved me right again, this is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen here. Please provide proof and a quote how teams want 9 year contracts.
See proof above. Not that you read what I wrote here.

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12-08-2012, 08:12 PM
  #250
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So you believe teams will still be able to bury players in the minors and avoid the cap hit? I know that situation makes nucks fans feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but do honestly believe for one minute, this will be allowed to continue?
Until I hear that both sides agree to it, Im not gonna speculate that players wont be able to be sent to the minors.

Is it beyond a reasonable doubt that this will happen?

I wouldnt say so unless you've seen something substantially backing that idea.

Im just genuinely skeptical about anythinh said these negotiations... They are kind of the biggest joke ever.

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