HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lockout Discussion Thread 3.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-08-2012, 07:35 PM
  #1101
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Lol.

Incorrect. Again. You just keep IGNORING actual FACTS, don't you?

The players get their GUARANTEED contracts. They get paid exceedingly well, better than anyone else in the same career they have chosen. They get the best equipment, trainers, doctors, flights, hotels, food, etc, etc, etc...that money can buy and don't actually contribute a cent from their own pockets for any of it. The owners give them quite a bit.
Exactly. Wouldn't it be fair that players also split the bill from their own HRR? They claim that they want the fairest deal for everyone after all.

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:36 PM
  #1102
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Lol.

Incorrect. Again. You just keep IGNORING actual FACTS, don't you?

The players get their GUARANTEED contracts. They get paid exceedingly well, better than anyone else in the same career they have chosen. They get the best equipment, trainers, doctors, flights, hotels, food, etc, etc, etc...that money can buy and don't actually contribute a cent from their own pockets for any of it. The owners give them quite a bit.
not a fact.

ECWHSWI is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:38 PM
  #1103
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I think that the Prust think was taken out of context and then blown out of context. Prust was making a bit of a joke, a fan lost his temper due to misunderstanding it, and then Prust let some of his frustration show. Prust should not be shot down because he showed his human side. He has been doing a lot of stuff around town to make fans happy since signing here:showing up for impromptu skates, signing autographs without charging anyone, chatting with people, letting fans know he is excited to play for Montreal, etc... Please, guys, let us all take a step back and recognize that sometimes people lose their tempers. I try my best not to be too ignorant on these boards, but have also lost my temper at times and straight out attacked people who I have felt crossed the line with me. Prust just did that. Give the man some slack, please.
I'd give him slack if the fan's comment was uncalled for, but I hardly believe that.

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:38 PM
  #1104
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So, you're gonna cry all your life that it was unjust for you not to be raised by millionnaires ? I suggest you move on, better for your mental and physical health.

Sure, Molson, Jacobs and co care so much about the other workers, right ? Yeah, that's why they decided to lockout. to help em out...

poor decisions are made pretty much everyday by everyone, get over it. pretty sure that, like me and everyone else in here, you make stupid remark(s) everyday.

I dont care is G Molson is a retard, dont care either if Cole or Prust are retard, as long as they entertain me when I watch hockey I'm fine with it. If I want something "smarter", I'll watch or read something else.
It's important to remember that we don't know how old some of these people are.

I was full of envy and jealousy most of my teenage years. It's really not a good way to live, and I feel bad for some of the consequences. It's a human emotion, but not a productive one in most cases. Our emotions were optimized for the African savannah where we evolved, but behaving as paleolithic man is not a great way to live in this modern world.

Anyway, some of the posters saying "Hockey players have so much !!! they have more than me !!! they should shut up and play !!!!" might just be at that earlier stage of development. They could be 15, 16. I've criticized them, but I would have said the same things when I was 15.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
That trend isn't much different from Phoenix though. And there's a reason not even the NFL has seriously proposed going to Vegas.

First of all, the population tends to be transient meaning people have loyalties elsewhere; this has changed a bit but it's another American sunbelt city with massive sprawl.

The population centre is dominated by tourists, nobody is going to the desert to see the NHL. Vegas is already an entertainment capital, but what thrives there is special events like boxing and one time shows. It would be a great choice for an all star game or something, but a league season would get old quickly there.

Related to that, we aren't talking about an untapped market investment wise. You'd be competing for sponsorship money with the other events offered in Vegas, and there's no way hockey in the desert is going to take precedent over what Vegas is actually known for.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/23/comm...sbiz/index.htm

In fact the only advantage the NHL has over other sports teams in breaking that market, is hockey is so unpopular there that people don't even bet on it!
You've convinced me on Vegas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
By the way, I never stated the players SHOULDN'T get the perks they get. I only pointed out that they actually get them. That is not quite the definition of "envious".
Your entire history in this thread has been to argue that players should get less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Shouldn't an educated academic like you understand the difference???
Not sure why you're incapable of writing a post without referring to my professional status. I certainly don't comment on your being a schoolteacher in every post. It's not relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Nobody pays Molson for his autograph.
Why not? I thought owners were the real heroes in this business? Paying for all the costs and all the risks, and that nobody would notice a difference if all players were replaced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
UFO's

DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:44 PM
  #1105
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's important to remember that we don't know how old some of these people are.

I was full of envy and jealousy most of my teenage years. It's really not a good way to live, and I feel bad for some of the consequences. It's a human emotion, but not a productive one in most cases. Our emotions were optimized for the African savannah where we evolved, but behaving as paleolithic man is not a great way to live in this modern world.

Anyway, some of the posters saying "Hockey players have so much !!! they have more than me !!! they should shut up and play !!!!" might just be at that earlier stage of development. They could be 15, 16. I've criticized them, but I would have said the same things when I was 15.


You've convinced me on Vegas.


Your entire history in this thread has been to argue that players should get less.


Not sure why you're incapable of writing a post without referring to my professional status. I certainly don't comment on your being a schoolteacher in every post. It's not relevant.


Why not? I thought owners were the real heroes in this business? Paying for all the costs and all the risks, and that nobody would notice a difference if all players were replaced?


Dude, it seems like you take every post out of context and it's so frustrating, even if I'm not the one arguing with you. You just completely miss the point on purpose.

Actually, you're the only one in this thread bringing up envy and jealousy when it's completely unnecessary. Pure gaslighting.

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:48 PM
  #1106
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Lol.

Incorrect. Again. You just keep IGNORING actual FACTS, don't you?

The players get their GUARANTEED contracts. They get paid exceedingly well, better than anyone else in the same career they have chosen. They get the best equipment, trainers, doctors, flights, hotels, food, etc, etc, etc...that money can buy and don't actually contribute a cent from their own pockets for any of it. The owners give them quite a bit.
First of all, a lot of costs are subtracted from HRR, I'm not sure why you're saying players don't pay a cent; they pay 57% of costs that are subtracted.

Second, yes, teams pay for the best equipment. Any team that wants to pay for inferior equipment can lose games and finish last. No team will give Corey Perry a contract next summer and then ask him to play with a $10 hockey stick and $30 skates.

Could you imagine Lewis Hamilton driving around the Formula 1 racetrack in a used 1992 Ford Tempo? How do you think he would do?

The same is true of doctors, flights, food, and hotels.

Bottom line: your point on players getting the best equipment doesn't come off as a great point. They would get the same equipment with decertification, the same doctors, and the same hotels.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:55 PM
  #1107
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Dude, it seems like you take every post out of context and it's so frustrating, even if I'm not the one arguing with you. You just completely miss the point on purpose.
I'm sorry if you can't follow me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Actually, you're the only one in this thread bringing up envy and jealousy when it's completely unnecessary.
A lot of people have noticed and commented on the fact anti-union sentiment is rooted in envy.

It's necessary to describe things as they are. A lot of posters are envious of the players and that leads to their conclusions. Some have been very explicit, so if you can't see something so blatant then I can't help you.

Here's one example:
Quote:
All I'm saying is if you're getting paid $560/minute(minimum wage) while you work (game time), and paying NOTHING to travel North America every week or so, get lodged in nice hotels, get free meals and training sessions, access to state of the art training facilities and countless other perks, stop f'ing whining about 5 year max contract terms and insignifigant things of the sort...

DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:15 PM
  #1108
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm sorry if you can't follow me.


A lot of people have noticed and commented on the fact anti-union sentiment is rooted in envy.

It's necessary to describe things as they are. A lot of posters are envious of the players and that leads to their conclusions. Some have been very explicit, so if you can't see something so blatant then I can't help you.

Here's one example:

Quite condescendent remark.

Second, I don't see how the envy is blatant in what you just posted. All I see is a person who's opinion is that players are spoiled, which is true. For you to come and call anyone who thinks that way envious and jealous is nothing but you trying to disorient someone's opinion.

You do bring up some good points in your position, but your arrogance and your twisting of opinions are annoying.

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:28 PM
  #1109
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
I don't see how the envy is blatant in what you just posted.
And that is why you get condescended to.

Let's bring it up again:
Quote:
All I'm saying is if you're getting paid $560/minute(minimum wage) while you work (game time), and paying NOTHING to travel North America every week or so, get lodged in nice hotels, get free meals and training sessions, access to state of the art training facilities and countless other perks, stop f'ing whining about 5 year max contract terms and insignifigant things of the sort...
He's completely exaggerating the players' benefits (i.e. they're only working when they're on the ice during a game; spending 80 nights a year in hotels is a gift), and thus concludes that the players should shut up and accept whatever the owners are demanding. Basically, his conclusions, that the players should submit, are explicitly derived from his envy. You're wearing some heavy blinders if you don't see it.

As an aside, I travel as part of my work, not as often as hockey players of course, but still too often imo.

The first time it happened, I had to go to Victoria, BC. I was very, very excited, it felt like a massive perk. I thought I was incredibly lucky. Now, fast forward six years, and it doesn't feel like the greatest thing in the world. For the most part, I hate airports, I hate airplanes, and I hate hotels; searching for a parking spot and then waiting in line like a sheep, the cramped seats, the horrible food, low air quality got old really fast. They're uncomfortable and unproductive. Players are not living the high life to be forced away from work all the time; it's definitely part of their job and I'm sure most of them would rather be at home. However, the game would not be possible without travel, and thus they travel for work reasons.

Some friends of mine went to Rome recently. If you're 15, 20 or even 25 you might see that as a great perk. In truth, they got on the plane the day after their business was done. Rome is beautiful, but they wanted to get back to their families and kids, which you need to do when you fly dozens of times a year.

Point is, it's not a gift that players need to fly 50 or 60 times a year. It's a job requirement.


Last edited by DAChampion: 12-08-2012 at 08:37 PM.
DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:50 PM
  #1110
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
And that is why you get condescended to.

Let's bring it up again:

He's completely exaggerating the players' benefits (i.e. they're only working when they're on the ice during a game; spending 80 nights a year in hotels is a gift), and thus concludes that the players should shut up and accept whatever the owners are demanding. Basically, his conclusions, that the players should submit, are explicitly derived from his envy. You're wearing some heavy blinders if you don't see it.

As an aside, I travel as part of my work, not as often as hockey players of course, but still too often imo.

The first time it happened, I had to go to Victoria, BC. I was very, very excited, it felt like a massive perk. I thought I was incredibly lucky. Now, fast forward six years, and it doesn't feel like the greatest thing in the world. For the most part, I hate airports, I hate airplanes, and I hate hotels; searching for a parking spot and then waiting in line like a sheep, the cramped seats, the horrible food, low air quality got old really fast. They're uncomfortable and unproductive. Players are not living the high life to be forced away from work all the time; it's definitely part of their job and I'm sure most of them would rather be at home. However, the game would not be possible without travel, and thus they travel for work reasons.

Some friends of mine went to Rome recently. If you're 15, 20 or even 25 you might see that as a great perk. In truth, they got on the plane the day after their business was done. Rome is beautiful, but they wanted to get back to their families and kids, which you need to do when you fly dozens of times a year.

Point is, it's not a gift that players need to fly 50 or 60 times a year. It's a job requirement.
See, this is where you fail to use reason:

All of those things; benefits, perks or job requirements as you say, are given to the players and some of it is given back, fact. The person who posted that was bringing up the fact that the players get what they need to do their job at a high level, the highest in the world, yet they're still petty over issues as contract length, which has nearly no effect to their working conditions, except that players with 5+ year deals (which is only like 12% of players) who will under perform after 2-3 years of their contract, wont likely get paid for many more years after that. That's more like being accountable of your performance.

I don't think I have a blinder on, I don't think you have a blinder on either. I just think that we have a different perspective and opinion regarding that. I'm a hockey fan, but in no way I'm envying the life that the players live, why? Because I have my own goals and dreams in life, and playing hockey in the NHL is none of them.

So for you to be calling people envious over remarks like that is short-sighted IMHO, you don't even know that person's story.


Last edited by Myron Gaines*: 12-08-2012 at 08:56 PM.
Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:58 PM
  #1111
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
See, this is where you fail to use reason:

All of those things, benefits, perks or job requirements as you say, are given to the players and some of it is given back, fact. The person who posted that was bringing up the fact that the players get what they need to do their job at a high level, the highest in the world, yet they're still petty over issues as contract length, which has nearly no effect to their working conditions, except that players with 5+ year deals (which is only like 12% of players) who will under perform after 2-3 years of their contract, wont likely get paid for many more years after that. That's more like being accountable of your performance.

I don't think I have a blinder on, I don't think you have a blinder on either. I just think that we have a different perspective and opinion regarding that. I'm a hockey fan, but in no way I'm envying the life that the players live, why? Because I have my own goals and dreams in life, and playing hockey in the NHL is none of them.

So for you to be calling people envious over remarks like that is short-sighted IMHO, you don't even know that person's story.
they "need", so what you're saying actually is that what you guys call benefits are actually tools.

neither side would be fighting over points that have "no effect".

ECWHSWI is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:06 PM
  #1112
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
See, this is where you fail to use logic:

All of those things, benefits, perks or job requirements as you say, are given to the players and some of it is given back, fact. The person who posted that was bringing up the fact that the players get what they need to do their job at a high level, the highest in the world, yet they're still petty over issues as contract length, which has nearly no effect to their working conditions, except that players with 5+ year deals (which is only like 12% of players) who will under perform after 2-3 years of their contract, wont likely get paid for many more years after that.
I think contract limits and salary variations would be good for the game. However, it's a concession from the players to the owners. I have no problem with that in principle, but the owners should give something back. They might argue, for example, "we'll raise our offer from 57% to 58% if you accept the contract limits", or " we'll raise the minimum salary from $500,000 to $750,000" or "we'll reduce the frequency on roster trades", but they're not offering anything in return.

Here is the tally of proposed changes:
- Contract limits, advantage owners
- Reduced player share of HRR, advantage owners
- An extra year of restricted free agency, advantage owners
- limits on year-to-year salary variations, advantage owners
- revenue sharing to grow very slowly, neutral
- end to re-entry waivers, with AHL salaries now counting towards the cap, neutral

It's just take, take, take, take from the NHL. There's no proposed change that can be described as advantage players except possibly the last one, which is the smallest change. Hence the players are frustrated.

It's quite ignorant for posters to write "the players have everything they could possibly want !!! stop whining and start playing !!!!" It's a position rooted in envy. He's losing all consideration for the situation and just seeing men bathing in gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
I don't think I have a blinder on, I don't think you have a blinder on either. I just think that we have a different perspective and opinion regarding that. I'm a hockey fan, but in no way I'm envying the life that the players live, why? Because I have my own goals and dreams in life, and playing hockey in the NHL is none of them.
Congratulations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
So for you to be calling people envious over remarks like that is short-sighted IMHO, you don't even know that person's story.
I know his tone, and he had several other posts to that effect.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:10 PM
  #1113
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
they "need", so what you're saying actually is that what you guys call benefits are actually tools.

neither side would be fighting over points that have "no effect".
Call it whatever you want, but the players still actually benefit from it.

And tell me what effect in working conditions does having a 5 year contract length limit have? None.

It's all about the NHLPA showing solidarity to Sidney Crosby's and Ovechkins, at least publically, and that's fine.

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:13 PM
  #1114
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
It's all about the NHLPA showing solidarity to Sidney Crosby's and Ovechkins, at least publically, and that's fine.
Long-term contracts are a perk to the best players, those who can earn them. It's basically equivalent to tenure for school teachers for example. It's a reward for excellence.

I'm entirely in favor of removing lifetime contracts, I think it will be good for the game, but the owners should offer something in return.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:16 PM
  #1115
HankyZetts
Twi2ted
 
HankyZetts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Quite condescendent remark.

Second, I don't see how the envy is blatant in what you just posted. All I see is a person who's opinion is that players are spoiled, which is true. For you to come and call anyone who thinks that way envious and jealous is nothing but you trying to disorient someone's opinion.

You do bring up some good points in your position, but your arrogance and your twisting of opinions are annoying.
How can a player be spoiled when he IS the money? This opinion is crazy to me, same reason I hate banks, they just rob you under the guise of protecting/helping you. I have to pay them in order for them to profit off me, all the while charging someone else to borrow my money. Ridiculous, but that's the way the world works and the sheeple stand strong. Owners profit off of the players, not the other way around.

Look, I get that the league needs a bit of help from the players, but it should not be forgotten that literally everything removed from the last CBA should be considered as a concession from the players. If they've agreed to take the hit(make whole), then they should be able to negotiate off some of the owners other drastic demands( 5 yr UFA, 10 yr CBA).

HankyZetts is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:49 PM
  #1116
Habbadasher
Registered User
 
Habbadasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My couch
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,680
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post

Here is the tally of proposed changes:
- Contract limits, advantage owners
- Reduced player share of HRR, advantage owners
- An extra year of restricted free agency, advantage owners
- limits on year-to-year salary variations, advantage owners
- revenue sharing to grow very slowly, neutral
- end to re-entry waivers, with AHL salaries now counting towards the cap, neutral
Contract Limits: You have argued that for every overpaid player there is an underpaid one. Contract limits minimizes this problem. Neutral.

Extra Year of Restricted Free Agency: Advantage the fans. It bothers me, as a fan, to see a player become FA just as he enters his prime (generally considered 27 -30). Players are signing big $ contracts before they become FA, so it does not hinder their earning ability.

Limits on year-to-year salary variations: Neutral. Players can count on a steady stream of income, and teams can no longer get around the cap.

Revenue Sharing to Grow Very Slowly: ????? 33%, or 3.3%/year on a 10 year deal, is still much higher than inflation, about double in fact. Though I have said before it should increase with revenue (so increase 33% now, then with increases or decreases with revenue). More teams making money means more jobs. Advantage players.

Reality is that unions are taking it the teeth these days, they either give back some of their excessive salaries, and benefits, or find a new job. Reality is, life is not fair, the guy with the deeper pockets always wins, and more profitable teams means more jobs.

Habbadasher is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:50 PM
  #1117
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Call it whatever you want, but the players still actually benefit from it.

And tell me what effect in working conditions does having a 5 year contract length limit have? None.

It's all about the NHLPA showing solidarity to Sidney Crosby's and Ovechkins, at least publically, and that's fine.
just like a Computer tech benefits from not having to work with a 386. Is that a benefit, really ?

ECWHSWI is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:53 PM
  #1118
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Contract Limits: You have argued that for every overpaid player there is an underpaid one. Contract limits minimizes this problem. Neutral.

Extra Year of Restricted Free Agency: Advantage the fans. It bothers me, as a fan, to see a player become FA just as he enters his prime (generally considered 27 -30). Players are signing big $ contracts before they become FA, so it does not hinder their earning ability.

Limits on year-to-year salary variations: Neutral. Players can count on a steady stream of income, and teams can no longer get around the cap.

Revenue Sharing to Grow Very Slowly: ????? 33%, or 3.3%/year on a 10 year deal, is still much higher than inflation, about double in fact. Though I have said before it should increase with revenue (so increase 33% now, then with increases or decreases with revenue). More teams making money means more jobs. Advantage players.

Reality is that unions are taking it the teeth these days, they either give back some of their excessive salaries, and benefits, or find a new job. Reality is, life is not fair, the guy with the deeper pockets always wins, and more profitable teams means more jobs.
and yet, with the 5 years limit, it may happen a little more.

ECWHSWI is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:55 PM
  #1119
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Contract Limits: You have argued that for every overpaid player there is an underpaid one. Contract limits minimizes this problem. Neutral.

Extra Year of Restricted Free Agency: Advantage the fans. It bothers me, as a fan, to see a player become FA just as he enters his prime (generally considered 27 -30). Players are signing big $ contracts before they become FA, so it does not hinder their earning ability.

Limits on year-to-year salary variations: Neutral. Players can count on a steady stream of income, and teams can no longer get around the cap.

Revenue Sharing to Grow Very Slowly: ????? 33%, or 3.3%/year on a 10 year deal, is still much higher than inflation, about double in fact. Though I have said before it should increase with revenue (so increase 33% now, then with increases or decreases with revenue). More teams making money means more jobs. Advantage players.

Reality is that unions are taking it the teeth these days, they either give back some of their excessive salaries, and benefits, or find a new job. Reality is, life is not fair, the guy with the deeper pockets always wins, and more profitable teams means more jobs.
lower salaries does NOT mean teams will go from losing 20 mil a year to making 20 mil profits... PHX, CLB and the Florida teams will still lose money.

ECWHSWI is online now  
Old
12-08-2012, 09:58 PM
  #1120
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
just like a Computer tech benefits from not having to work with a 386. Is that a benefit, really ?
Are you really comparing luxury labour commodities to actualized computers to tech guys? If you wanna make that comparison, give hockey players 20$ hockey sticks and old used padding.

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:01 PM
  #1121
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Contract Limits: You have argued that for every overpaid player there is an underpaid one. Contract limits minimizes this problem. Neutral.
Then why does the NHLPA oppose contract limits and owners support it?

Contract limits: advantage owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Extra Year of Restricted Free Agency: Advantage the fans. It bothers me, as a fan, to see a player become FA just as he enters his prime (generally considered 27 -30). Players are signing big $ contracts before they become FA, so it does not hinder their earning ability.
The players are not chattel.

And fans are not a bargaining party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Limits on year-to-year salary variations: Neutral. Players can count on a steady stream of income, and teams can no longer get around the cap.
Not really, a front-loaded 40 million dollars is worth more than an evenly-spaced 40 million dollars due to the time-value of money. Front-loading is also more immune to future rollbacks. Shea Weber, Ryan Suter, etc are all thrilled they got front-loading, as the front-loading is not subject to rollbacks.

As for steady income stream, players are allowed to request that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Revenue Sharing to Grow Very Slowly: ????? 33%, or 3.3%/year on a 10 year deal, is still much higher than inflation, about double in fact.
The inflation rate for the NHL is about 8%/year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
excessive salaries, and benefits


Last edited by DAChampion: 12-08-2012 at 10:08 PM.
DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:04 PM
  #1122
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Are you really comparing luxury labour commodities to actualized computers to tech guys?
I just got a macbook air for my workplace, with wireless mouse, keyboard, and $1200 thunderbolt monitor. I also have remote access to supercomputer nodes.

It's a job requirement, not a luxury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
If you wanna make that comparison, give hockey players 20$ hockey sticks and old used padding.
Give Lewis Hamilton a used 1992 Ford Tempo to drive around the Formula 1 racetrack.

Give Novak Djokovic a wooden Tennis racket.

Give some sandals to Christiano Ronaldo.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:10 PM
  #1123
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I just got a macbook air for my workplace, with wireless mouse, keyboard, and $1200 thunderbolt monitor. I also have remote access to supercomputer nodes.

It's a job requirement, not a luxury.


Give Lewis Hamilton a used 1992 Ford Tempo to drive around the Formula 1 racetrack.

Give Novak Djokovic a wooden Tennis racket.

Give some sandals to Christiano Ronaldo.
Congrats on your new mac.

And yeah, that's exactly what I said and alluded to in my post. Players should play with toy equipement and drive themselves from state to state to play the game.

You can't be serious.

There's a difference between hockey equipement, medical attention and luxury hotels/private masseuses.

Give the players free food, free housing and million dollar cars too.

See what I'm doing?

Myron Gaines* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:14 PM
  #1124
Corky
Registered User
 
Corky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 341
vCash: 500
Unions are a plague and the NHL lockout proves it once again. In hockey like in any other industry, unionized employees are blindingly following a few hot head leaders and end up losing big.

If any of these players had an ounce of rational thinking, they would go back to work ASAP. What they are losing right now will never be gained back. Hockey players have very short careers and they should make the most of it. A lockout is terrible for them economically whichever way you look at it.

The players will lose that fight, it's written in the sky. Most NHL owners are not making money with the current system, how hard is it to comprehend that. The owners can easily afford to go one year without hockey. The players can afford it as well, but take on a much larger hit.

It's so simple but unfortunately, the players have been brainwashed to a point of no return (See Erik Cole vs Roman Hamrlik).

It's not even about taking a side, it's simple economics...

End of rant.

Corky is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:15 PM
  #1125
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Are you really comparing luxury labour commodities to actualized computers to tech guys? If you wanna make that comparison, give hockey players 20$ hockey sticks and old used padding.
no problems, dont complain they arent as productive as they were though.

ECWHSWI is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.