Larry Tanenbaum, Chairman of the Board, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment
"I was pleased to be asked to join the Player/Owner negotiation sessions. I had hoped that my perspective both as a businessman and as one of the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs would be helpful to the process. Like all other teams, this work stoppage has hurt our fans, our employees and our business. Neither the owners nor the players will ever recover the losses incurred with this work stoppage.
I understand how important it is to have a strong league and 30 healthy teams. I must admit that I was shocked at how things have played out over the last 48 hours. The sessions on Tuesday felt cooperative with an air of goodwill. I was optimistic and conveyed my optimism to the Board of Governors at our Wednesday meeting. However, when we reconvened with the players on Wednesday afternoon, it was like someone had thrown a switch. The atmosphere had completely changed. Nevertheless, the owners tried to push forward and made a number of concessions and proposals, which were not well-received. I question whether the union is interested in making an agreement.
I am very disappointed and disillusioned. Had I not experienced this process myself, I might not have believed it. Like all hockey fans, I am hopeful this situation can be resolved as soon as possible. I miss our game."
This is from the Leafs representative. The team that stands to lose the most money from the lockout, the one group that the NHLPA probably thought it could use to work around Bettman, that would bend over backwards to get a deal signed. And he's good and pissed at the PA and Fehr.
The season is done. Let's hope somebody sees the light before next September.
Guys, just between you, me, and the internet, I don't think Fehr would set out to try to become a villian (any more than he's already seen to be). It doesn't make sense.
What I think might have happened was that they didn't realize how much hope had already been built up among the media and therefore the fans as they were expecting Donald Fehr to come out and potentially announce something that would indicate the lockout was about to end, which is what they thought they got.
As the players said when they came down to watch Bettman's conference, they don't have TSN upstairs.
Making a good PR move in this is heavily reliant on where people's emotions are at the moment. If people were their usual cynical selves, this probably would have worked in the PA's favor, like any other time they've said that they were close.
Well, all I can say is as long as I've seen Bettman get up at the podium and blah blah blah same 'ol crap, this is the first time I've seen him pissed and personally I don't blame him. Just like everyone else, I'm not privy to any inside info and I've never liked Bettman but I hate Fehr even more and I think the players are getting bad advice (again). Right now it's just a joke and becoming more embarrassing. Take what you can and get the bleep back on the ice.
I followed the lockout closely at first, lost interest, and regained it last week or so. Can someone explain what decertification is to me? The union break off from the NHL? How does that benefit them? Or am I understanding this completely wrong?
I followed the lockout closely at first, lost interest, and regained it last week or so. Can someone explain what decertification is to me? The union break off from the NHL? How does that benefit them? Or am I understanding this completely wrong?
From my extremely rudimentary understanding, this is what would happen.
The NHLPA either files for decertification or files a disclaimer of interest. If another offer is not tabled and negotiations don't start back up, we go to...
The PA is dissolved. Don Fehr is no longer executive director because there is no union, however he would most likely still be a consultant to various players.
The players, either individually or in groups, file anti-trust court cases against the league.
At this point in time it's the wild wild west. If it continues this far, all current contracts are done. No draft, no cap, no guaranteed contracts. I have no idea how far it would go, as far as I know no players association in pro-sports have ever carried it through to the end. A resolution has always been reached. But this is the NHL we're talking about.
Anybody feel free to correct any mistakes I made or add details.
I want to elaborate a bit on the decertifiation -> replacement player route.
Because the union would be decertified, the players who are brought in as replacements would be cast as only filling the spots of players who refuse to play (which would be yet another PR move to put those players in a bad light).
It won't work as a PR move because no one sees the league as the stewards of the game. We see the players as it.
I've wanted a conclave since at least the last time we went through this. If the NHL or PA wants a precious PR stunt, be the first one to suggest it. Either side will win major supporters.
To CC321's last comment: I don't think 'uncomfortable' is quite the right word. From watching the video of that event, it's much more of a crushing dissapointment.
Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-07-2012 at 08:02 AM.
I'm still confident that a season will happen. A full cancellation seems to be dreaded by both sides, and they aren't that far apart with only a few issues acting as a barrier. The theatrics of last night had a very bad appearance, but both sides aren't going to miss a whole season over a few disagreements in term length.
Don't be worried guys, while I think season cancellation-decertification-replacement players is the route we'll see, there's a CBA out there for all of us.
It'll be proposed when you least expect it.
Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-07-2012 at 10:47 AM.
Don't be worried guys, while I think season cancellation-decertification-replacement players is the route we'll see, there's a CBA out there for all of us.
A question I'd like to ask the league is if they'd be okay with accepting less than their contracts had been signed for.
If the league wants to know why fans don't sympathize with them, basically it's because it looks like the owners are stealing the players wallet and then trying to sell it back to them.
Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-07-2012 at 04:08 PM.
The Lightning right wing said it is "mind-boggling" the league angrily broke off talks with the Players' Association on a new collective bargaining agreement, and called it a "bully tactic" for Bettman to say owners wanted only a yes or no to their latest offer and no negotiations.
"They're trying to squeeze five more cents out of a deal that can be done," Crombeen said Friday. "It's very frustrating. They're just saying it's our way or the highway. You look at the deal we had and the deal we're going to get, every single aspect we're giving up a lot."
Quote:
"We moved drastically in almost every area and their big gift was to give us back free agency and salary arbitration and entry-level contracts to what they are right now," Crombeen said. "It's mind-boggling that they expect us to think that's a fair and equitable deal. It's the wrong way to go about negotiations."
Quote:
The good news, Crombeen said, is Tampa Bay's Jeff Vinik, one of six owners in on face-to-face talks with players, was "good" and "reasonable."
So far we've seen Hamrlik and Neuvirth give negative responses to the union...and get cold shouldered and obliquely threatened for doing so. The talk has always been that the union is 750 brothers, standing shoulder to shoulder, strong and unbending. But maybe not so much now.
Don’t get misled for one second by the images of players appearing on your television screens saying all the right things about how they’ve been conceding and conceding and conceding, only to be rejected by a voice-mail message, of all things. These are all people who still trust their executive director Donald Fehr’s statements that there’s a better deal to be had, just wait and see, the league will come back crawling, with tears in its owners’ eyes, begging us to please accept our own offer.
The fact is that Donald Fehr’s message to the troops after the Thursday night bloodbath has been along the same lines: just don’t you worry, guys, we know what we’re doing.
The fact is, too, that the number of players who are getting more and more sceptical with each of their leader’s pronouncements has been growing constantly.
I’ve talked to more than a dozen such players with growing concerns of one kind or another about the union’s direction. Some of them have begun talking to their colleagues, not only their teammates but to other players from other teams, too, comparing notes and coming up with interesting conclusions.
Such as: how come, when there are two binding offers on the table, do we not get to read them so we can decide whether we want to vote on either or both of them? The explanation they get is it’s their negotiating committee that makes those calls and recommends whether this or that should be put to a vote. Trust your negotiating committee.
Judging by a number of conversations with players from several NHL teams, the unconditional trust that the NHLPA brass used to enjoy is no longer there. And that includes the negotiating committee membership, also. So, these players persist: stop telling us there’s a better deal to be had, just let us know precisely where we’re at right now. Not yesterday. Not tomorrow. Right now.
Bobby Mac alluded to some of this the other day as well. The rank and file, the 3rd and 4th liners, 6th and 7th defencemen and not happy with Fehr, or with the players on the negotiating committee. I do wish a few of them would actually give their names, but probably they don't want to be Hamrlikd.
So far we've seen Hamrlik and Neuvirth give negative responses to the union...and get cold shouldered and obliquely threatened for doing so. The talk has always been that the union is 750 brothers, standing shoulder to shoulder, strong and unbending. But maybe not so much now.
Bobby Mac alluded to some of this the other day as well. The rank and file, the 3rd and 4th liners, 6th and 7th defencemen and not happy with Fehr, or with the players on the negotiating committee. I do wish a few of them would actually give their names, but probably they don't want to be Hamrlikd.
Somebody posted this link on the BOH board. Part of a radio show with a sports business guy calling in. This one has enough crap in it to drive everybody nuts.
He hates Don Fehr. Thinks the NHL should have never expanded into Florida at all (and actually says that's on Bettman, even though of course he was not responsible for either Florida team), and that 2 to 6 teams will contract if the lockout goes an entire season. Including of course our Lightning. Of course on the BOH board, it's solid gold. Not even worth the effort to try and dismiss it.
Somebody posted this link on the BOH board. Part of a radio show with a sports business guy calling in. This one has enough crap in it to drive everybody nuts.
He hates Don Fehr. Thinks the NHL should have never expanded into Florida at all (and actually says that's on Bettman, even though of course he was not responsible for either Florida team), and that 2 to 6 teams will contract if the lockout goes an entire season. Including of course our Lightning. Of course on the BOH board, it's solid gold. Not even worth the effort to try and dismiss it.
I won't say anything about his agenda for the same reason I have mine.
Well I don't think very many of us are agenda free in this mess. Ours don't matter of course, but we still have them. However, if you're going to make the rather bold statement that up to six teams could be contracted, you might want to have something a bit more persuasive than the blanket US economy is bad, NHL isn't as popular as the other big 3, and people in Florida don't like hockey. I like my agendas to come with a bit more factual evidence. For debating purposes if nothing else.
Well I don't think very many of us are agenda free in this mess. Ours don't matter of course, but we still have them. However, if you're going to make the rather bold statement that up to six teams could be contracted, you might want to have something a bit more persuasive than the blanket US economy is bad, NHL isn't as popular as the other big 3, and people in Florida don't like hockey. I like my agendas to come with a bit more factual evidence. For debating purposes if nothing else.
but he did a study!
and Donald Fehr talking to the CAW is relevant!
Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-09-2012 at 05:24 AM.
