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Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI

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Old
12-08-2012, 05:36 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
Honestly I think aqib has it right. Jamison himself is probably the weakest link in all this. My feeling is that Jamison won't close and this whole thing collapses for good on January 31st.
For the good of the league and the City of Glendale, let's hope so.

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12-08-2012, 05:47 PM
  #602
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Perhaps.... or perhaps the new Mayor & Council decide to "study" the issue. Conduct a search for a new City Manager to beat the bushes & negotiate with the NHL & prospective owners. Maybe get really smart and employ the services of SportsCorp to do it instead. Buy themselves more time. Another reprieve. Get their houses in order. All kinds of limitless possibilities & plot turns.
Its been 2 weeks since the counsel approved the deal and we haven't heard anything about any progress on the sale. It will get interesting to see what happens when the new counsel gets sworn in. We also have no updates on how the signature drive is going. Plus there is the chance the world ends on 12/21 rendering this whole thing moot.

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12-08-2012, 05:48 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Where have you been? Incoming mayor already softening his stance. The people of Glendale aren't storming city hall. If they were truly upset I'd expect to see mass rallies outside cityhall. I don't buy that the general population hasn't heard of the money being spent. It appears to be a Meh who cares situation, for most of the citizens down there. So let the deal pass who cares, most of us don't live there. I'm pretty sure the deal won't be kiboshed by the city or it's citizens. Everyone tunes in to see a train wreck, so stay tuned and enjoy.
He has publicly softened right now while he can't do anything about it. Lets see what happens 1/31 if he has to extend it.

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12-08-2012, 06:44 PM
  #604
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Subject of cheap Coyotes tickets was brought up earlier and it ended up a victim of "Superstorm Sandy"....

But for the sake of making sense of the following......

They cut the 2 for 1 promos and nearly all bottom end ticket prices out. Only exception was to military personnel who walked up to the window an hour prior to puck drop. They also ran a promo that provided free tickets, but it was only free to the recipient. The money to pay for them (at the group rate) came from donations by STHs, corporate sponsors.... etc.

Most Yotes fans recognize the average ticket prices need a bump up. Most STHs I know wouldn't mind it at all given the current ice product because they see it can get better. Couldn't say that with previous ownership/management.


Last edited by TheLegend: 12-08-2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: qtd deletions Legend; good thing I bought flood insurance. ;)
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Old
12-08-2012, 06:52 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
The two biggest problems Jamison will face IMO going forward are:

- Not just getting people to go to games, but specifically go to the Monday - Thursday games. People will go to games on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, that's not the problem. It's those other days. And the only way to accomplish this is to increase the ST base to at least 10,000 full time people. That way when Carolina comes to town on a Tuesday you still have a decent number of tickets sold.

- Increase ticket revenues. The NHL is still a gate driven league so ticket prices are your bread and butter. The thing is Jamison can't just come in day 1 and double ticket prices... not in a market where prices have been lower than average for a long time. So he is going to have to do something like raise prices 5-7% each season and hope he doesn't face any kind of a backlash. As well, make it very attractive to be a full STH.

I'm not sure how flexible the NHL schedule maker can be, but what might help the Coyotes would be to have the Monday - Thursday games against teams like Detroit and Chicago which you know are big draws and have your weekend games against teams that are normally not your big draws.
I agree with all the above.... and add a third..... booking more non-hockey events (ie concerts, alternative sporting events) that will bring in positive revenues. That will benefit both Jamison and Glendale.

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12-08-2012, 07:05 PM
  #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
No, 10 bucks is the cheapest and if you're in for the season you can get more discounts.
http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=79059
Let's clarify that a bit more.

It's $10 IF you bought it as a season ticket plan. The walkup/single game price is more.

Also it's limited to roughly 1% of the arena's seating capacity.

If you are an STH you CAN purchase additional tickets at the STH price.

Currently the lowest priced ticket (if you look at Ticketmaster) is $20.


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12-08-2012, 07:21 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Its been 2 weeks since the counsel approved the deal and we haven't heard anything about any progress on the sale. It will get interesting to see what happens when the new counsel gets sworn in. We also have no updates on how the signature drive is going. Plus there is the chance the world ends on 12/21 rendering this whole thing moot.
After four years of this you're going to complain about a couple of weeks????

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12-08-2012, 07:24 PM
  #608
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Are people really arguing over whether the cheapest tickets are 10 or 20 dollars??? Does it really matter? Bottom line is that these are unsustainable prices for NHL tickets, simply because the "market" isn't willing to pay what more viable markets up north pay. Their frugalness is partly to blame for why they are in the position they are in now.

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12-08-2012, 09:21 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
The two biggest problems Jamison will face IMO going forward are:

- Not just getting people to go to games, but specifically go to the Monday - Thursday games. People will go to games on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, that's not the problem. It's those other days. And the only way to accomplish this is to increase the ST base to at least 10,000 full time people. That way when Carolina comes to town on a Tuesday you still have a decent number of tickets sold.

- Increase ticket revenues. The NHL is still a gate driven league so ticket prices are your bread and butter. The thing is Jamison can't just come in day 1 and double ticket prices... not in a market where prices have been lower than average for a long time. So he is going to have to do something like raise prices 5-7% each season and hope he doesn't face any kind of a backlash. As well, make it very attractive to be a full STH.

I'm not sure how flexible the NHL schedule maker can be, but what might help the Coyotes would be to have the Monday - Thursday games against teams like Detroit and Chicago which you know are big draws and have your weekend games against teams that are normally not your big draws.
Nashville faced a lot of these same issues.

You fix them by having a consistent winner, and hiring good business/hockey people who can sell the experience and woo sponsors...

and for a couple of years the NHL did let nashville have as many saturday home games as possible, so they may do it for Phoenix as well

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12-08-2012, 10:06 PM
  #610
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Because Winnipeg was in the same financial strap that Glendale is, back then. The dollar was ****** at best, and no one wanted to own the team (with their own money, the powers at be did ask for a government subsidy, it was denied).

And Phoenix is last in attendance, what's your point?

Our arena has 15,005 who have purchased season tickets for minimum 3 years, with another 8000 waiting to get into that prestigeous club of owning season tickets. The same can't be said for the Coyotes fans, there just isn't enough of them unfortunately.
still only 15005 fans a game. which is still 25th in the league. and they can't be helping the league with tv contract negotiation as they are a tiny market.

what happens when the canadian dollar goes back to be worthless again? the real solution is to fix the system. not move teams around constantly.

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12-08-2012, 10:19 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by atomic View Post
still only 15005 fans a game. which is still 25th in the league. and they can't be helping the league with tv contract negotiation as they are a tiny market.

what happens when the canadian dollar goes back to be worthless again? the real solution is to fix the system. not move teams around constantly.
You mean like that totally awesome TV contract they have now? Strong franchises will bring a strong TV contract.

25th in the league in attendance and still a revenue sharing contributor tells you something about the market, and other markets now doesn't it?


Last edited by DyerMaker66: 12-08-2012 at 10:35 PM. Reason: not req'd...
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12-08-2012, 10:19 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
For the good of the league and the City of Glendale, let's hope so.
Come on Puck, we let the cat out of the bag a long time ago. none of us Canadians really care about Glendale and whats good for Glendale, we just want the hockey team out of Glendale and into a Canadian city.

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12-08-2012, 10:36 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
You mean like that totally awesome TV contract they have now? Strong franchises will bring a strong TV contract.

25th in the league in attndance and still a revenue sharing contributor tells you something about the market, and other markets now doesn't it?
no markets like winnipeg will not bring a big tv contract. Don't they have canadian hockey night or something in canada? If it is popular why doesn't it contribute masses of sums of money to the nhl? because no one lives in canada.

how hard is that to understand. you have no population. we have states with more people than your country. you have 3 real cities Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

Rochester and Binghamton New York both have more population in their metro areas than your 4th biggest city. MOD

winnipeg has like 600,000 people in their metro area, phoenix 4.2 million. and you wonder why the nhl doesn't want a team to leave phoenix?


Last edited by Killion: 12-09-2012 at 12:31 AM. Reason: not reqd...
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12-08-2012, 10:39 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Come on Puck, we let the cat out of the bag a long time ago. none of us Canadians really care about Glendale and whats good for Glendale, we just want the hockey team out of Glendale and into a Canadian city.
I'm actually serious. Now that I'm going through the same **** in Edmonton where my property tax dollars are at risk over a sweetheart deal, I do feel for those down south who could potentially get bent over hard, and then become bankrupt. No facade here. I really do feel for them.

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12-08-2012, 10:42 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by atomic View Post
no markets like winnipeg will not bring a big tv contract. Don't they have canadian hockey night or something in canada? If it is popular why doesn't it contribute masses of sums of money to the nhl? because no one lives in canada.

how hard is that to understand. you have no population. we have states with more people than your country. you have 3 real cities Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

Rochester and Binghamton New York both have more population in their metro areas than your 4th biggest city.MOD
Well Winnipeg might not bring a NBC Tv contract that is true but if the owner in Florida can make profit with on the side businesses while having an NHL team a guy in QC who owns more than 35% of the French TV market in Quebec will certainly find great uses of an NHL team and be ready to pay big bucks for it.

EDIT : Also you gotta consider that TV markets arent always the same as in US. While NYC and Birmingham may have their own local Fox/Nbc/Cbs/Abc/Espn, in Canada its a different story, we've got CBC covering coast to coast, same with TSN.

And don't take it personnaly but despite us being only 30ish mil in Canada our Monday night hockey game is watched by more people than a Phoenix vs "Any team" on any day of the week in Phoenix.


Last edited by Killion: 12-09-2012 at 12:31 AM.
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12-08-2012, 11:09 PM
  #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic View Post
winnipeg has like 600,000 people in their metro area, phoenix 4.2 million. and you wonder why the nhl doesn't want a team to leave phoenix?
There is no wonder, it is because Glendale is willing to pay big bucks to keep them there. That is the only reason the Coyotes are still in Arizona.

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Old
12-08-2012, 11:22 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by atomic View Post
no markets like winnipeg will not bring a big tv contract. Don't they have canadian hockey night or something in canada? If it is popular why doesn't it contribute masses of sums of money to the nhl? because no one lives in canada.

how hard is that to understand. you have no population. we have states with more people than your country. you have 3 real cities Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

Rochester and Binghamton New York both have more population in their metro areas than your 4th biggest city. MOD

winnipeg has like 600,000 people in their metro area, phoenix 4.2 million. and you wonder why the nhl doesn't want a team to leave phoenix?
By your logic the NHL should have 3 teams in Mexico City.


Last edited by Killion: 12-09-2012 at 12:31 AM.
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12-08-2012, 11:37 PM
  #618
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no markets like winnipeg will not bring a big tv contract. Don't they have canadian hockey night or something in canada? If it is popular why doesn't it contribute masses of sums of money to the nhl? because no one lives in canada.

how hard is that to understand. you have no population. we have states with more people than your country. you have 3 real cities Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

Rochester and Binghamton New York both have more population in their metro areas than your 4th biggest city. MOD

winnipeg has like 600,000 people in their metro area, phoenix 4.2 million. and you wonder why the nhl doesn't want a team to leave phoenix?
And yet Winnipeg is sold out for the next 3 years at a high ticket price. Toronto has an 8 year wait for season tickets and has the highest price in the league. You don't think that 8 year wait says that the GTHA could support another team?

Population clearly doesn't matter when you don't watch the sport (*cough* Atlanta *cough*)

Edmonton, Ottawa, and Calgary do pretty well and their teams are terrible.

MOD Your country doesn't watch hockey, and the NHL should stop trying to force it to until it is full of healthy franchises. A healthy league will help itself grow, not forcing failing franchises to stay in Phoenix and Atlanta.


Last edited by Killion: 12-09-2012 at 12:33 AM.
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12-09-2012, 01:45 AM
  #619
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And yet Winnipeg is sold out for the next 3 years at a high ticket price. Toronto has an 8 year wait for season tickets and has the highest price in the league. You don't think that 8 year wait says that the GTHA could support another team?

Population clearly doesn't matter when you don't watch the sport (*cough* Atlanta *cough*)

Edmonton, Ottawa, and Calgary do pretty well and their teams are terrible.

MOD Your country doesn't watch hockey, and the NHL should stop trying to force it to until it is full of healthy franchises. A healthy league will help itself grow, not forcing failing franchises to stay in Phoenix and Atlanta.
You almost sound as if you feel hockey doesn't belong in the US altogether????

Yes, Winnipeg is sold out over the next 3 years. But part of atomic's point is.... Winnipeg is maxed out now. It's not going to get any bigger unless TNSE jacks ticket prices up.

And part of the reason why it was able to contribute to rev sharing is that it has one of the lowest payrolls in the NHL. What happens when TNSE is forced to begin paying higher contracts to attract the marque players everyone contends is needed to win a cup, or reward top players within it's own system in order to keep them??

This was my one and only concern with Winnipeg getting a team back. How would they fare in over the long haul (10+ years) as player salaries continue to climb. I knew the fans would respond... I knew they would be successful out of the box. But you can only squeeze so much out of a market.

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12-09-2012, 04:04 AM
  #620
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It is pointless to argue with them. That this thread is a sticky on a general hockey discussion is ridiculous. Ticket prices are too high in hockey. Instead of them bashing the Coyotes for having reasonable prices on tickets perhaps they should be bashing the team that have ridiculous prices on tickets.
This is not "general hockey discussion," it is the "Business of Hockey" board. The discussion here centres on, or is supposed to centre on, the business of hockey and by extension, the business of the NHL and its teams.

On that front, the Coyotes are the star attraction. A team that has gone through bankruptcy, has been owned by the league for over three years, has had numerous woefully inadequate and often comedic suitors over the years, a government who's determined to put down hundreds of millions of subsidies despite their own financial struggles and state laws prohibiting them from doing so. That is why this thread is stickied.

Unfortunately, every so often, the discussion your currently participating in with other posters takes over; small market Canadian success stories vs. long-term US market gains, returning to the game's roots vs. 'growing the game.' It is an emotional argument that is often rooted in team loyalties and nationalism, which in turn leads to fan-base, city, and market bashing. It is also something that has been discussed again, and again, and again, and again over the years and is frowned upon by many of us regulars. To quote another poster...

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12-09-2012, 04:05 AM
  #621
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no markets like winnipeg will not bring a big tv contract. Don't they have canadian hockey night or something in canada? If it is popular why doesn't it contribute masses of sums of money to the nhl? because no one lives in canada.

how hard is that to understand. you have no population. we have states with more people than your country. you have 3 real cities Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

Rochester and Binghamton New York both have more population in their metro areas than your 4th biggest city. MOD

winnipeg has like 600,000 people in their metro area, phoenix 4.2 million. and you wonder why the nhl doesn't want a team to leave phoenix?
Interesting, you do know that it's generally accepted that the 23% of Canadian teams contributed over 33% of NHL revenue? You are also aware that the CBC gives 100 million per season for the Saturday night + partial playoff rights of 7 teams, while NBC is giving 200 million for 23 teams over the entire season, hmmm yeah Canadian teams bad. Canadian teams bad considering Canadian teams don't see 100% of that 100 million since it is shared amongst the American teams, I wonder if any of that NBC contract comes up north, I doubt it.

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12-09-2012, 04:15 AM
  #622
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Oh, this again?


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12-09-2012, 05:57 AM
  #623
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still only 15005 fans a game. which is still 25th in the league. and they can't be helping the league with tv contract negotiation as they are a tiny market.

what happens when the canadian dollar goes back to be worthless again? the real solution is to fix the system. not move teams around constantly.
Since they wouldn't be contributing to rev sharing, my guess is 5 U S teams fold.

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12-09-2012, 07:42 AM
  #624
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LOL @ potential (phoenix) > actual (winnipeg)

Dreamer, you know you are a dreamer
Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no!
I said dreamer, you're nothing but a dreamer
Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no!
OH NO!



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12-09-2012, 09:13 AM
  #625
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btw Winnipeg is 25th in attendance. Even the Devils had more fans per game.
It isn't how many fans per game you attract. It's how much you are able to charge those that attend. A team in Yellowknife could have a 1,000 seat arena, but if it could sell each ticket for $10,000, it would be very profitable and would have a ton of revenue. Winnipeg may "only" have a 15,000 seat arena, but it is able to sell their tickets for a much higher price than New Jersey (and most other teams, for that matter). This comes down to simple economics; supply and demand. There is a much greater demand for the 15,000 tickets available in Winnipeg than the 18,000 seats in Newark, therefore ticket prices are higher and Winnipeg brings in more revenue.

There is something else that Winnipeg figured out, probably by accident. It is cheaper to build a 15,000 seat arena than a 18,000 seat arena. The most expensive seat to build in an arena is going to be the one you sell for the cheapest price. So unless you're selling out every night, it makes no sense to have an 18,000 seat arena because you are wasting money.

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