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Chicago Wolves Discussion - Part VI

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Old
12-08-2012, 09:29 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
& Schroeder isn't strong? Have you seen a picture of him? He is built for a small guy. Schroeder has always been a pass first player. The thing Schroeder has on his side that Hodgson doesn't: Speed! Something that is important in the NHL.

That IS assuming though. I'll go with what he showed in his time in this system. Is it a surprise that he started to produce in the AHL this year when he was in another system? The same system that Kassian was producing in less then a year ago in? It surely isn't a coincidence IMO.
Doesn't matter if hes strong or not, well i guess it does, it atleast gives him a shot that he is. Otherwise he really wouldnt' stand a chance.

But it hardly matters because he is still small. A small frame is a small frame, you dont have the reach and he still plays like a soft non strong player. Hodgson gets away with it because hes got world class vision and skill. Schroeder is not Hodgson in terms of vision.

As it stands, schroeder has nothing that outweighs his size. Hes a small player who puts up decent numbers in a league that isn't the nhl. with a potential to maybe become nhl worthy.

Anyone who thinks more or. Well i dont know what to say. Show me a list of guys under 5'10 who aren't gritty who made the nhl without putting up a much better ppg than Schroeder?

Almost every case, the undersized player dominates the lower leagues. Hell even the undersized guys who do dominate still can't make the nhl. The AHL has so many skilled undersized players who couldn't cut it with the combination of skill and size that the nhl contains

5'9 - Speed - Half decent numbers in his third year in the AHL... is built pretty well for a small guy... well hes a sure bet for the nhl. you convinced me

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12-08-2012, 09:34 PM
  #277
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Doesn't matter if hes strong or not, well i guess it does, it atleast gives him a shot that he is. Otherwise he really wouldnt' stand a chance.

But it hardly matters because he is still small. A small frame is a small frame, you dont have the reach and he still plays like a soft non strong player. Hodgson gets away with it because hes got world class vision and skill. Schroeder is not Hodgson in terms of vision.

As it stands, schroeder has nothing that outweighs his size. Hes a small player who puts up decent numbers in a league that isn't the nhl. with a potential to maybe become nhl worthy.

Anyone who thinks more or. Well i dont know what to say. Show me a list of guys under 5'10 who aren't gritty who made the nhl without putting up a much better ppg than Schroeder?

Almost every case, the undersized player dominates the lower leagues. Hell even the undersized guys who do dominate still can't make the nhl. The AHL has so many skilled undersized players who couldn't cut it with the combination of skill and size that the nhl contains

Speed - Half decent numbers in his third year in the AHL... is built pretty well for a small guy... well hes a sure bet for the nhl. you convinced me
Why do you think Ebbett went from being a PPG player on other teams to producing less than Schroeder on the Wolves? Doesn't that tell you anything about what kind of team this is? I'm astounded that people don't factor this in when talking about players' production.

Here we've got Haydar, Ebbett, Kassian, Gordon, and more producing FAR less than they did with their previous teams and yet apparently that's not something that should be considered.

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12-08-2012, 09:35 PM
  #278
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You dont think people who watched Tambellini in his first ahl season said this guy can be a 2nd liner! hes skilled enough to make up for his size, he needs better linemates! hes got speed

Hes been a fringe nhl player. back n forth from the ahl his whole career

how is he any different? and tambo is a winger, which usually helps a little

and he dominated the ahl, as all skilled soft undersized players do who make it into the nhl

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12-08-2012, 09:35 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Why do you think Ebbett went from being a PPG player on other teams to producing less than Schroeder on the Wolves? Doesn't that tell you anything about what kind of team this is? I'm astounded that people don't factor this in when talking about players' production.

Here we've got Haydar, Ebbett, Kassian, Gordon, and more producing FAR less than they did with their previous teams and yet apparently that's not something that should be considered.
a team can do poorly and players still manage to put up their typical ppg pace. Happens alot. When canucks struggled, alot of players still managed to meet their standard ppg pace.

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12-08-2012, 09:37 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by pseudonymous01 View Post
a team can do poorly and players still manage to put up their typical ppg pace. Happens alot. When canucks struggled, alot of players still managed to meet their standard ppg pace.
Again, how do you explain Ebbett? He's in his prime and producing half of what he has on every other AHL team. You seem to enjoy the straw man, but I'm looking for an answer to this specific question.

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12-08-2012, 09:38 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Again, how do you explain Ebbett? He's in his prime and producing half of what he has on every other AHL team. You seem to enjoy the straw man, but I'm looking for an answer to this specific question.
i believe their point per game pace has dropped because THEY aren't playing up to par. I think Schroeder is playing as well as last year, coach expects more. gets benched. hes a year older, a chance to make it into the nhl, higher expectations

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12-08-2012, 09:39 PM
  #282
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i believe their point per game pace has dropped because THEY aren't playing up to par. I think Schroeder is playing as well as last year, coach expects more. gets benched. hes a year older, a chance to make it into the nhl, higher expectations
So you're saying that Kassian regressed from last year? Ebbett too? As someone who has watched AHL for a while, neither has regressed. Both are in fact playing better.

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12-08-2012, 09:41 PM
  #283
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Also, Sedins regressed to 18 points in 28 games when the team was playing poorly. I guess they became 50 point players overnight.

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12-08-2012, 09:43 PM
  #284
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A PK...dammit.

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12-08-2012, 09:43 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
A PK...dammit.
Miskovic bit so hard on that deke. Edit: now I realize you didn't see and are just listening so I'm probably making no sense, haha.

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12-08-2012, 09:43 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
So you're saying that Kassian regressed from last year? Ebbett too? As someone who has watched AHL for a while, neither has regressed.
So you think by saying that one player is under his point per game average, means that proves another player is also? Not sure what youre suggesting. I watched schroeder last year and this guy, neither year he has dominated and shown he can make it in the nhl YET

I watched kassian last year and this year, he has showed signs of being able to dominate when he wants. And to be honest, i do not think a player who knows and has made the nhl has as much drive to prove anything in a lower league that they are in due to a lockout. I think kassian knows where he belongs. Those flaws will be ironed out in the nhl.

Sadly schroeders cannot be

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12-08-2012, 09:45 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Also, Sedins regressed to 18 points in 28 games when the team was playing poorly. I guess they became 50 point players overnight.
What are you talking about? That was my point, they regressed, our team played poorly. That would be your equivalent to ebbett and haydar.

Do you think all our 2nd and 3rd liners regressed? I bet that is NOT the case

Just because your star players are playing poorly and your team suffers doesn't mean your other players are incapable of meeting their typical PPG pace

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12-08-2012, 09:46 PM
  #288
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Good move by Arneil not putting Friesen on the PK

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12-08-2012, 09:50 PM
  #289
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2-1 win, with Climie saving our bacon.

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12-08-2012, 09:53 PM
  #290
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I'll agree Schroeder will fail as an NHL player when I see him fail in an NHL game. Because of the lockout, depth (Hodgson was in front of him previously) there's no data to support that argument.

There is however data to support that this environment is not exactly enabling its players to succeed offensively. Not that I'm not concerned about Schroerder's size, but Tiranis has a point.


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12-08-2012, 10:02 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
2-1 win, with Climie saving our bacon.
I watched the first 3/4 of yesterdays game and he looked good then too.

Good to hear.

I find it odd that nobody is too worried about Lacks injury considering i think management thinks of him as a top prospect for our organization. Ive even heard our top prospect

I guess because we have schneider, still, A valuable piece.

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12-08-2012, 10:06 PM
  #292
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If Rodin is hurt again it is real bad sign. Took a couple of tough hits andd its a concern that he can stand up to the tough going in the NA pro game.

Great game for Climie. Ebbett with a better effort.

Still evident that the Wolves lack much finish. Missed some great chances and made Hutton look better than was in this game. The play on the 5 on 3s was especially distressing. Pk was a little better as long as they kept Friesen out of it. I really don't understand why Friesen is playing instead of Mallet. Neither is particularly ready but there is much more strength and speed in Mallet's play. With Friesen you are down in your end hoping to survive.

Some of the prospects showed well well. Thought Kassian, Tanev and Connauton had strong games. Connauton definitely established that he is not to be messed with. Really tuned Morin who must have ended up in the quiet room.

Game confirmed that Beach is still an ass clown with some serious mental issues

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12-08-2012, 10:10 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
When you see the points Hodgson put up while in our farm system then what he was able to do with actual talent I think it speaks to the level of offensive talent on the farm. Schroeder isn't far off on the ppg that Hodgson put up & from reports Schroeder is more committed to playing an all around game. Maybe I'm an optimist but I think he can still succeed & be a good NHL player but one that will always leave you thinking he has more to offer.
This, this a thousand times this.

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Hodgson isn't undersized. Hodgson is 6 foot and 194. He is built strong and is getting rapidly stronger , his strength is slowly catching up to his frame.

Hodgson got 17 goals in 52 games and schroeder had 10 in 62 and hodgson would have eventually went on to dominate that league. schroeder hasnt improved nearly as much as hodgson would have. you can say thats assuming but i think most would agree hodgson would have been a point per game or real damn close in his 2nd full year

undersized players need to produce more than the average player. fact

coaches love to give players with potential chances, if you know a player has the frame and potential to be a great player for you, youre goin to give him the chance. when yorue undersized, youre never going to get bigger, so you focus on how well they are offensively and thats it, they dont have anything comign in the future to help
Schreoder was actually the strongest player in his draft year at the combine in a number of tests including Bench press. Size does not matter as much as strength.

He again has also been out producing Hodgson when he was playing in our system. Hodgson never "dominated" the AHL on the scoreboard.

Schreoder can arguably be said to have improved as well, seeing as how it has been pointed out how much better he is defensively in comparison to Hodgson.

You can't argue that the entire team is producing less than they have for the rest of their AHL career, then in our system, Kassian, Haydar, Ebbet, all of them. Therefore we can reasonably say producing at pace X on our farm team is not that bad. Again look at Hodgson as a perfect example, he produced at a .55 ppg clip in his AHL career for us. Scheoder has been producing at a .60 clip. This is better is it not?

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12-08-2012, 10:20 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
This, this a thousand times this.



Schreoder was actually the strongest player in his draft year at the combine in a number of tests including Bench press. Size does not matter as much as strength.

He again has also been out producing Hodgson when he was playing in our system. Hodgson never "dominated" the AHL on the scoreboard.

Schreoder can arguably be said to have improved as well, seeing as how it has been pointed out how much better he is defensively in comparison to Hodgson.

You can't argue that the entire team is producing less than they have for the rest of their AHL career, then in our system, Kassian, Haydar, Ebbet, all of them. Therefore we can reasonably say producing at pace X on our farm team is not that bad. Again look at Hodgson as a perfect example, he produced at a .55 ppg clip in his AHL career for us. Scheoder has been producing at a .60 clip. This is better is it not?
I already argued this point

"Hodgson got 17 goals in 52 games and schroeder had 10 in 62 and hodgson would have eventually went on to dominate that league. schroeder hasnt improved much, hodgson would have. you can say thats assuming but i think most would agree hodgson would have been a point per game or real damn close in his 2nd full year'"

This is the reason he was called up. his talent and vision was miles above the rest, which made up for his shortcomings.

Schroeder hasn't been called up because this is not the case

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12-08-2012, 10:43 PM
  #295
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I already argued this point

"Hodgson got 17 goals in 52 games and schroeder had 10 in 62 and hodgson would have eventually went on to dominate that league. schroeder hasnt improved much, hodgson would have. you can say thats assuming but i think most would agree hodgson would have been a point per game or real damn close in his 2nd full year'"

This is the reason he was called up. his talent and vision was miles above the rest, which made up for his shortcomings.

Schroeder hasn't been called up because this is not the case
Your argument is built on speculation that Hodgson would have dominated the AHL on the moose/wolves.

You have no actual basis for this. Just because you type it doesn't make it true.

Kassian's production drop in this system speaks to Schroeder's struggle to put up numbers.

I'm sure we can all agree that Hodgson's position on the Canucks last season wasn't based solely on Merrit, there were many many factors why he was there.

Schroeder was far more impressive in last years preseason (I know I'm not the only who he saw this).

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12-08-2012, 10:51 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Your argument is built on speculation that Hodgson would have dominated the AHL on the moose/wolves.

You have no actual basis for this. Just because you type it doesn't make it true.

Kassian's production drop in this system speaks to Schroeder's struggle to put up numbers.

I'm sure we can all agree that Hodgson's position on the Canucks last season wasn't based solely on Merrit, there were many many factors why he was there.

Schroeder was far more impressive in last years preseason (I know I'm not the only who he saw this).
Almost every post on here is built on opinion. You think you can show me anything of this year and say its the truth because the stats sheet says so? Its been 20 games. Truthfully I dont think Schroeder will end the year with as many points as Kassian. Secondly, kassian is twice the player, which is the reason he'll be on the canucks and made the team last year.

thirdly, anybody who watched hodgson early on in his career and time with the moose and can judge early talent at all could see that Hodgson was miles above the rest. The coaches said this. They agreed with the canucks management about bringing him up

If you want to compare players like Schroeder to hodgson and kassian and talk about him being on par, why isn't he in the nhl?

Schroeder is lacking in an area that can't be worked on in the nhl.

You want facts to back up my assumptions, the fact he is not in the nhl and wont even be when play resumes. And thats even with a hole where a center should be.

Also you can bring up the teams lack of success and lack of points over and over but because a top line isnt' producing is no excuse for schroeders lack of success. A top line can hurt a team and lower all their stats while not hurting 2nd and third line production. You think Higgins, Lapierre, etc all dropped their ppg rate when sedins slacked?

So you think when ebbett and haydar make up for their lack of production and end the seaosn with their typical ppg rate, schroeders rate will go up? lets wait and see. ill be ready to bring up this page/thread

I have to end this debate right here. I dont think ill ever get through to anybody who doesn't think Hodgson was on pace to be a point per game player in the ahl not far from when he was called up to the nhl. There is 0 doubt in my mind that he owuld have been one. As i have no doubt that yakupov will be a top player in the nhl. Some things are just obvious. Shame i dont have the proof to show you because the nhl and moose thought he was an nhl player so i wasn't able to prove to you

and regarding the kassian thing, bringing him up and comparing points is ridiculous. thats like comparing a D's points to a forwards. kassian brings everything else to the table, he could have the worst points per game this year and still make the nhl next year.

you are overanalyzing this teams drought and trying to make it seem like schroeder and kassian are doing fine. they are not. their points reflect their play. as simple as that. you can blame ebbett and haydar ,etc all you want.

one difference is that kassian's way of playing is an easy transition into the nhl.

15 points that are had by being big and strong and nonstop being in front of the goal. typically translates into 15 in the nhl. 15 points made by a soft perimeter undersized forward doesn't typically. 48 points of schroeders are NOT the same.

The same way all of Schultz points wouldnt' translate into the nhl

However if you had a player like bertuzzi in the ahl and he was getting 100 points a year, you can expect him to translate that into the nhl and be above a point per game player in the league.

Certain attributes translate better and that is why you see HFBoard users getting on schroeders case more often. Its not a coincidence or they just like Zack's name better


Last edited by Pseudonymous: 12-08-2012 at 11:10 PM.
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Old
12-08-2012, 11:10 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudonymous01 View Post
I already argued this point

"Hodgson got 17 goals in 52 games and schroeder had 10 in 62 and hodgson would have eventually went on to dominate that league. schroeder hasnt improved much, hodgson would have. you can say thats assuming but i think most would agree hodgson would have been a point per game or real damn close in his 2nd full year'"

This is the reason he was called up. his talent and vision was miles above the rest, which made up for his shortcomings.

Schroeder hasn't been called up because this is not the case
Well, that settles it...

Guess we can all put this to rest now.

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12-08-2012, 11:15 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Well, that settles it...

Guess we can all put this to rest now.


Are you trying to discredit my opinion and information given because i added an opinion into my post?

If i were to sit here and say tanev will get more minutes next year or kassian will improve on his points total, would you give that same condescending attitude?

On top of that opinion i gave, i showed their numbers from their first full seasons and one was much better. Hodgson has had a history of dominating every league hes been in. You dont think these facts have weight?

Lets say we were arguing about players making the nhl in their first year and you didn't think it was likely and i said, well yakupov is going to. would you say, well that hasn't happened yet and laugh at me? No. Why?

Sure guys, schroeder is the same as kassian and hodgson, his size isn't a factor and 48 points is good enough for a player of his stature. this what you want to hear? lol theyre holding him back because hes just too good and they dont want to let him go

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12-08-2012, 11:17 PM
  #299
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Yeah but saying "tanev will get more minutes next year" or "kassian will improve on his points total" isn't as bold/outrageous as saying someone would "dominate that league".... is it?

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12-08-2012, 11:20 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Yeah but saying "tanev will get more minutes next year" or "kassian will improve on his points total" isn't as bold/outrageous as saying someone would "dominate that league".... is it?
Bold?

Hodgson had 17 goals in 52 games. 30 points in 52 games. in his first year

You think its bold to say a player who had that ppg pace who had these recent stats

2008-2009 BRAMPTON BATTALION-OHL 53 43 49 92
2008-2009 CANADA-WJC-A 6 5 11 16
2009-2010 BRAMPTON BATTALION-OHL 13 8 12 20

was a 10th overall pick

, to put up a point per game in his second full season?

Maybe i shouldn't say dominate but i guess i consider a point per game for a young player dominating. Not sure if you call that dominating. But its showing you belong in the next level

Schroeder has never been an offensive force. I am sorry, he wont magically turn into one. And my prediction was FAR from bold.

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