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isles future vs oilers future

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Old
12-08-2012, 11:39 AM
  #51
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Oilers have way more forward depth. After Tavares, the next 5 best forwards are Hall, RNH, Eberle, Hemsky and Yakupov. On defense, I think Justin Schultz is on another level and they have better depth with Smid, Petry, Marincin and Klefbom coming up. Goaltending, Dubnyk is a very good young goalie who tore it up after the new year. Coaching and management along with financial flexibility goes to the Oilers as well.

Brooklyn may attract some FAs though, so who knows. But as of now, I take Oilers AINEC. The Islanders development of talent outside of Tavares is very alarming when they hog up a lot of draft picks. Also think center depth is in favor of the Isles, which may turn the whole argument around.

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12-08-2012, 01:21 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Hall rnh. Eberle
Smyth gagner yakupov
Hartikainen horcoff hemsky
Pajaarvi Belanger jones
Eager. Lander.

No way isles forward depth is better than that. It's not league best or anything but its surprisingly good at all positions, especially if Harti and prv develop as we expect and horcoff and hemsky can stay healthy.
tavares center
okposo
bailey
grabner
nielsen center
moulson
martin
nino
strome center
nelson center
lee center
ullstrom center
perrson center
sundstrom center
halmo
the center depth is just absolutely ridiculous

and big bodied skilled centers like nelson or lee arent as common as oiler fans are making them out to be

isles are far better as far as center goes, oilers are better as far as wingers go but not by as wide of a margin and forwards overall it depends on the value you put on centers over wingers

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12-08-2012, 01:32 PM
  #53
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Hmm very tough to say...

But I will say the Isles are VERY solid down the middle, and hopefully solid on D in a few seasons once all of our D prospects develop.

I just hope we see these two teams battling it out every season in the SCF.

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12-08-2012, 01:45 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Poulin 0n My St1ck View Post
Hmm very tough to say...

But I will say the Isles are VERY solid down the middle, and hopefully solid on D in a few seasons once all of our D prospects develop.

I just hope we see these two teams battling it out every season in the SCF.
Agreed. Oilers/Isles in the finals for a few years would be amazing.

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12-08-2012, 08:36 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
tavares center
okposo
bailey
grabner
nielsen center
moulson
martin
nino
strome center
nelson center
lee center
ullstrom center
perrson center
sundstrom center
halmo
the center depth is just absolutely ridiculous

and big bodied skilled centers like nelson or lee arent as common as oiler fans are making them out to be

isles are far better as far as center goes, oilers are better as far as wingers go but not by as wide of a margin and forwards overall it depends on the value you put on centers over wingers
Persson is not a center. Lee, if he makes the NHL, will most likely not be a center. Same goes for Ullstrom.

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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
Agreed. Oilers/Isles in the finals for a few years would be amazing.
It really would. The history, the (hopefully) competition between teams with great prospects, and the constant comparisons of how we're each other's counterparts would make a great SCF.

Taylor Hall and Tavares battling it out would be something to watch.

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12-08-2012, 09:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Oilers have way more forward depth. After Tavares, the next 5 best forwards are Hall, RNH, Eberle, Hemsky and Yakupov. On defense, I think Justin Schultz is on another level and they have better depth with Smid, Petry, Marincin and Klefbom coming up. Goaltending, Dubnyk is a very good young goalie who tore it up after the new year. Coaching and management along with financial flexibility goes to the Oilers as well.

Brooklyn may attract some FAs though, so who knows. But as of now, I take Oilers AINEC. The Islanders development of talent outside of Tavares is very alarming when they hog up a lot of draft picks. Also think center depth is in favor of the Isles, which may turn the whole argument around.
That's pretty amusing. You are aware that Hemsky has only eclipsed the 20-goal mark twice in his career(high of 23), while Moulson has put up 30 or more for three years straight(30, 31, 36)? Not to mention guys like Okposo and Grabner who are clearly better players than Hemsky at the moment. Even in a down year for Grabner last year, he still had twice as many goals as Hemsky.

I really don't know what is worse... saying Hemsky is a better player than Moulson, or a kid who has never played an NHL game in Yakupov.

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12-08-2012, 09:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Persson is not a center. Lee, if he makes the NHL, will most likely not be a center. Same goes for Ullstrom.



It really would. The history, the (hopefully) competition between teams with great prospects, and the constant comparisons of how we're each other's counterparts would make a great SCF.

Taylor Hall and Tavares battling it out would be something to watch.
Man, that would be such a treat.

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12-08-2012, 09:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
Man, that would be such a treat.
Or maybe seeing a replay of this:


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12-08-2012, 09:09 PM
  #59
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Or maybe seeing a replay of this:

Hamonic might have to keep his head up too.




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12-08-2012, 09:15 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
Hamonic might have to keep his head up too.



Touche.

I was expecting you to respond with the fact that Hall scored a goal after that hit... which was impressive. Either way - poor Brodin.

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12-08-2012, 11:34 PM
  #61
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Tavares isn't even that much better than Eberle according to the stats. While Eberle is a little older than Tavares and was drafted earlier, Johnny has played three seasons in the NHL to Jordan's two.

Tavares
11-12 GP82 G31 A50 P81 .99PPG
10-11 GP79 G29 A38 P67 .85PPG
09-10 GP82 G24 A30 P54 .65PPG

Eberle
11-12 GP78 G34 A42 P76 .97PPG
10-11 GP69 G18 A25 P43 .62PPG
ahh but eberle is so much fun too watch! tavares is amazing in front of the net though! the best is the proven 30 goal scorer matt moulson.... er sumthing? wtf matt moulson he lucky to even get drafted thats what makes me laugh. draft steal of the decade?

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12-08-2012, 11:39 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
That's pretty amusing. You are aware that Hemsky has only eclipsed the 20-goal mark twice in his career(high of 23), while Moulson has put up 30 or more for three years straight(30, 31, 36)? Not to mention guys like Okposo and Grabner who are clearly better players than Hemsky at the moment. Even in a down year for Grabner last year, he still had twice as many goals as Hemsky.

I really don't know what is worse... saying Hemsky is a better player than Moulson, or a kid who has never played an NHL game in Yakupov.
Matt moulson is a better hockey player than ales hemsky? Ugh. Goal totals don't tell even half the story here. Moulson doesn't touch hemskys skill. You are severely misinformed or ignorant.

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12-09-2012, 12:40 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
That's pretty amusing. You are aware that Hemsky has only eclipsed the 20-goal mark twice in his career(high of 23), while Moulson has put up 30 or more for three years straight(30, 31, 36)? Not to mention guys like Okposo and Grabner who are clearly better players than Hemsky at the moment. Even in a down year for Grabner last year, he still had twice as many goals as Hemsky.

I really don't know what is worse... saying Hemsky is a better player than Moulson, or a kid who has never played an NHL game in Yakupov.
That's fine, considering Hemsky has been more of a play maker than a goal scorer.

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12-09-2012, 12:56 AM
  #64
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That's pretty amusing. You are aware that Hemsky has only eclipsed the 20-goal mark twice in his career(high of 23), while Moulson has put up 30 or more for three years straight(30, 31, 36)?
Yes, I am completely aware of this. Not sure why you're assuming that goals makes a player better.

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Not to mention guys like Okposo and Grabner who are clearly better players than Hemsky at the moment.
Not even close. Hemsky's really only had one mediocre season in his career and it was his most recent season. Even with Hemsky's disaster of a season by his standard, his PPG eluded to 42 pts, which is only 3 less than Okposo over an 82 game season and 9 pts ahead of Grabner. I'm not sure what makes either of them 'clearly better players' when they haven't proven to dominate at a level Hemsky has his career.


Quote:
Even in a down year for Grabner last year, he still had twice as many goals as Hemsky.
And what exactly is your point? Goals are the only tool to compare forwards? I'm sure you also though Grabner was a superstar after his rookie season and that he was a top 10 NHL player due to his goal totals.

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I really don't know what is worse... saying Hemsky is a better player than Moulson, or a kid who has never played an NHL game in Yakupov.
Hemsky is easily the better offensive talent than Moulson. Moulson is probably a 30g scorer on any other team in the league, but Hemsky's career PPG blows away Moulson's.

Hemsky: 0.77 PPG
Moulson: 0.66 PPG

And this is to mention that Hemsky's played his prime year with garbage linemates. He is not a superstar, but I think he is capable of being a top tier playmaker in the league.

As for the Yakupov comment, I obviously included him assuming we are considering future upside.

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12-09-2012, 01:33 AM
  #65
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Hemsky is far better than Moulson, Grabner, and Okposo. Obviously his health is an issue, but when he's on the ice, it's really not that close. He has been nearly a PPG for years until this season, that's a ridiculous statement.

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12-09-2012, 08:56 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Matt moulson is a better hockey player than ales hemsky? Ugh. Goal totals don't tell even half the story here. Moulson doesn't touch hemskys skill. You are severely misinformed or ignorant.
Matt Moulson also doesn't touch Rob Schremp's skill.

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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
That's fine, considering Hemsky has been more of a play maker than a goal scorer.
That's great.

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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Yes, I am completely aware of this. Not sure why you're assuming that goals makes a player better.



Not even close. Hemsky's really only had one mediocre season in his career and it was his most recent season. Even with Hemsky's disaster of a season by his standard, his PPG eluded to 42 pts, which is only 3 less than Okposo over an 82 game season and 9 pts ahead of Grabner. I'm not sure what makes either of them 'clearly better players' when they haven't proven to dominate at a level Hemsky has his career.




And what exactly is your point? Goals are the only tool to compare forwards? I'm sure you also though Grabner was a superstar after his rookie season and that he was a top 10 NHL player due to his goal totals.



Hemsky is easily the better offensive talent than Moulson. Moulson is probably a 30g scorer on any other team in the league, but Hemsky's career PPG blows away Moulson's.

Hemsky: 0.77 PPG
Moulson: 0.66 PPG

And this is to mention that Hemsky's played his prime year with garbage linemates. He is not a superstar, but I think he is capable of being a top tier playmaker in the league.

As for the Yakupov comment, I obviously included him assuming we are considering future upside.
Hemsky's PPG are higher. He was a very good player years ago. But looking at his last 3 seasons, he missed 3 quarters of the season, he missed half the season, then he had a bad season most recently(which is interesting considering all of the talent that has joined that team). Meanwhile Moulson has been one of the most consistent goal scorers in the league during that period. I really don't care what Hemsky had done in 2008. Right now, he's not a better player than Matt Moulson.

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Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
Hemsky is far better than Moulson, Grabner, and Okposo. Obviously his health is an issue, but when he's on the ice, it's really not that close. He has been nearly a PPG for years until this season, that's a ridiculous statement.
So an Oilers fan, and Oilers fan, an Isles hater and an Oilers fan disagree... I must be wrong.

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12-09-2012, 10:32 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
Hemsky is far better than Moulson, Grabner, and Okposo. Obviously his health is an issue, but when he's on the ice, it's really not that close. He has been nearly a PPG for years until this season, that's a ridiculous statement.
i would rather have moulson grabner or okposo on my tam because they will hlp my team on a more consistent basis

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12-09-2012, 10:48 AM
  #68
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That's great.
Goal totals > Points??

Quote:
Hemsky's PPG are higher. He was a very good player years ago. But looking at his last 3 seasons, he missed 3 quarters of the season, he missed half the season, then he had a bad season most recently(which is interesting considering all of the talent that has joined that team). Meanwhile Moulson has been one of the most consistent goal scorers in the league during that period. I really don't care what Hemsky had done in 2008. Right now, he's not a better player than Matt Moulson.

05-06: 77 pts in 81 games (On pace for 78 points)
06-07: 53 pts in 64 games (On pace for 67 points)
07-08: 71 pts in 74 games (On pace for 78 points)
08-09: 66 pts in 71 games (On pace for 75 points)
09-10: 22 pts in 22 games (On pace for 82 points)
10-11: 43 pts in 49 games (On page for 71 points)
11-12: 36 pts in 69 games (On pace for 42 points)


Yes, he remains is prone to injury, but he is far from a mediocre player. I'm a fan of Moulson as I believe he is a 30g guy on any team, but he hasn't proven to carry a line without Tavares. Hemsky on the other hand was the team's primary offensive star for many years and has his PPG reflect that. His 11-12 season is definitely an aberration to what he's proven thus far in his career. I don't know what the hell happened to Hemsky last year, but one mediocre season out of many good ones isn't going to turn him into garbage.

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12-09-2012, 12:12 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Goal totals > Points??




05-06: 77 pts in 81 games (On pace for 78 points)
06-07: 53 pts in 64 games (On pace for 67 points)
07-08: 71 pts in 74 games (On pace for 78 points)
08-09: 66 pts in 71 games (On pace for 75 points)
09-10: 22 pts in 22 games (On pace for 82 points)
10-11: 43 pts in 49 games (On page for 71 points)
11-12: 36 pts in 69 games (On pace for 42 points)


Yes, he remains is prone to injury, but he is far from a mediocre player. I'm a fan of Moulson as I believe he is a 30g guy on any team, but he hasn't proven to carry a line without Tavares. Hemsky on the other hand was the team's primary offensive star for many years and has his PPG reflect that. His 11-12 season is definitely an aberration to what he's proven thus far in his career. I don't know what the hell happened to Hemsky last year, but one mediocre season out of many good ones isn't going to turn him into garbage.
maybe he is just past his prime and will be even worse by the time these 2 teams are threats? all the injuries could be getting to him

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12-09-2012, 12:41 PM
  #70
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i would rather have moulson grabner or okposo on my tam because they will hlp my team on a more consistent basis
Not really. The difference in skill level is large enough that missing more games doesn't really matter.

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12-10-2012, 09:19 AM
  #71
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Not really. The difference in skill level is large enough that missing more games doesn't really matter.
the difference in skill level isn't very large and after last season it might not even be existent

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12-10-2012, 10:04 AM
  #72
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Lol at Oiler fans and Islander fans arguing whose garbage is better than the other guys.

Hemsky is NOT the future of the Oilers anymore than Moulson is the future of the Islanders.

Okposo has shown promise but seems to have trouble meeting expectations.

Grabner has shown he can contribute, but not as a front line player imo. Great pick up for free though.

The future of both franchises lies in their blue chip prospects and great young players. Unfortunately both teams are hampered by having slobbering morons in management and ownership.

And that can hinder future success more than anything.

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12-10-2012, 01:09 PM
  #73
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Lol at Oiler fans and Islander fans arguing whose garbage is better than the other guys.

Hemsky is NOT the future of the Oilers anymore than Moulson is the future of the Islanders.

Okposo has shown promise but seems to have trouble meeting expectations.

Grabner has shown he can contribute, but not as a front line player imo. Great pick up for free though.

The future of both franchises lies in their blue chip prospects and great young players. Unfortunately both teams are hampered by having slobbering morons in management and ownership.

And that can hinder future success more than anything.
Hard to argue with any of that...a lot will depend how the high upside players (nino, strome) pan out.

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12-10-2012, 02:45 PM
  #74
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Hard to argue with any of that...a lot will depend how the high upside players (nino, strome) pan out.
I think more depends on whether JT is able to imprint his identity and work ethic on the organization as a whole. That's a ton of leadership to ask from a young guy. But it could happen.

That's why I'd take the Isles group against the Oilers. It takes a special person to turn around the Islanders. Mere skill is a small matter in comparison.

Which isn't to say I disagree. What I mean is if JT succeeds (in the sense of becoming NYI's Stevie Yzerman), more Islanders prospects will succeed too.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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