HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Players Starting to Ask Uncomfortable Questions of NHLPA Leadership

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-08-2012, 11:14 PM
  #101
colchar
Registered User
 
colchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
750. So far only a few, but the big take away from this article is that it looks like a public statement from a group of players is forth coming shortly.

So this guy is drawing conclusions after hearing negative comments from 1.6% of the membership? And you're buying into it?

colchar is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:17 PM
  #102
colchar
Registered User
 
colchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Just like most people here expected, players are starting to crumble.

Do you not realize that the players he claims to have heard from only constitute 1.6% of the union?

colchar is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:22 AM
  #103
Ernie
Registered User
 
Ernie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,048
vCash: 500
yawn. press release? go for it. if these guys were that organized they'd have actually gotten involved.

it's funny that a retired writer gets such a huge scoop, while the guys who cover the league full time have mentioned no such sentiments emanating from the players.

Ernie is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:24 AM
  #104
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I already dealt with this above. 50/50 has been agreed to.

Where's the issue?
The issue began right here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Did you also forget that this past year there was 'record revenues' after they burned it down 8 years ago?
To which it was pointed out that those revenues were largely negated by record expenses. If that simple logic is not understood by everyone in the conversation, and frequent one-sided references to "record revenue" indicate that it isn't understood, then there is indeed an issue.

tarheelhockey is online now  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:30 AM
  #105
Ernie
Registered User
 
Ernie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,048
vCash: 500
oh, another thing; what HAS been put on the record is that the players have put a 6 year deal on the table with an option for two more, with the league has asked for a 8 year deal with an option for 2 more.

Any dummy could see that they could easily settle at 7. That's not the issue holding things back. The 5 year contract limits are.

Ernie is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:35 AM
  #106
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 29,120
vCash: 50
I have a hard time seeing any press release from a group of players. It wouldn't make any sense. If there is pressure, it will be within the union. The players don't need to go to the press to tell Fehr what they think.

A press release would only hurt the players since it would signal weakness. It would serve no purpose unless Fehr had gone rogue and was preventing players from making their voices heard and I don't think he is.

Freudian is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:42 AM
  #107
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
There's a reason why they're demanding the players share gets reduced - and it's not so that the majority of the league can put more profits into their bank accounts.

You're looking at the players share, and ignoring the underlying reason behind the demand to have it reduced.
Have you ever acknowledged, that even with the radical demands offered by the owners, they still aren't crafting an offer that will change the fundamental problems with the NHL's economics?

Everything about this CBA leads me to believe we're going to be sitting here watching the Proskauer Rose team "Let's Reset the Wages to The Lowest Common Denominator" whenever the CBA expires.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:45 AM
  #108
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I have a hard time seeing any press release from a group of players. It wouldn't make any sense. If there is pressure, it will be within the union. The players don't need to go to the press to tell Fehr what they think.

A press release would only hurt the players since it would signal weakness. It would serve no purpose unless Fehr had gone rogue and was preventing players from making their voices heard and I don't think he is.

If it's a splinter group, and the union isn't listening to them, well, so what? he NHL hasn't done much listening to Dolan and Snider either.


If a majority of players feel this way, then it's up to the union leadership to convey that message to Fehr or to change union leaders.

The idea of Fehr going "rogue" is preposterous.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:47 AM
  #109
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I already dealt with this above. 50/50 has been agreed to.

Where's the issue?
Love that avatar.
I can hear his voice.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 12:57 AM
  #110
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It would serve no purpose unless Fehr had gone rogue and was preventing players from making their voices heard and I don't think he is.
I don't think he's preventing the players from making their voices heard... I think he's just ignoring those that don't agree with his philosophy/agenda. The only way something will happen is if more and more players start voicing their opinion in such a way that Fehr can't ignore it. That doesn't mean they have to go public. But those that are not happy need to be very vocal about it internally if they want things to change.

__________________
"Itís not as if Donald Fehr was lying to us, several players said. Rather, itís as if he has been economical with information, these players believe, not sharing facts these players consider to be vital."
Riptide is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 01:11 AM
  #111
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I don't think he's preventing the players from making their voices heard... I think he's just ignoring those that don't agree with his philosophy/agenda. The only way something will happen is if more and more players start voicing their opinion in such a way that Fehr can't ignore it. That doesn't mean they have to go public. But those that are not happy need to be very vocal about it internally if they want things to change.
I think it's naive to suggest Fehr is "ignoring" opinions he doesn't like.

Take a look at the contract Fehr offered last week. Does that look like the kind off offer that was made by someone who's got a personal agenda?
He's obviously got some sort of pulse of the PA, or he wouldn't be offering major concessions in every area. I personally believe that if the players gave Fehr the OK, he'd have demanded the end of the salary cap on the very first offer. But he's listening to players.
Players constantly say they'll give up this or that to play. So Fehr is making offers that give up this or that.
He's not given up 100 percent of what the owners wanted. But he's about 95 percent there.

The NHL had their little stunt last week and they got Goodenowed for $100 million that they'll have to leave on the table when this is settled in two weeks.

So the question now is, what else will the NHL give up to get 5 year contracts? Or, will they compromise at 7 years.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 01:39 AM
  #112
JoemAvs
Registered User
 
JoemAvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,828
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Have you ever acknowledged, that even with the radical demands offered by the owners, they still aren't crafting an offer that will change the fundamental problems with the NHL's economics?

Everything about this CBA leads me to believe we're going to be sitting here watching the Proskauer Rose team "Let's Reset the Wages to The Lowest Common Denominator" whenever the CBA expires.
Let me play devils advocate here
Why do the players refuse to care about it?
Its always: Wah Wah they want to take money from us.
They are not even challenging the owners on their financial reasoning behind those take aways. They basically agree that the league as a whole is not financially healthy but the PA does not care. The only thing they do is care about them not losing any money.

Why didn't they push for heavy revenue sharing?
That issue was settled amazingly quick.
The players don't give a crap about the NHL product as a whole. Even less than Bettman and the owners.

If they were truely interested in the game of hockey, both the NHL and NHLPA wouldve sat on a table and tried to fix the game and system as a whole. Everyone would benefit from a healthy prospering league.
But in the end both only care about their bottom line and wish that the other party rots in hell. That is why we have those lockouts all the friggin time.

JoemAvs is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 01:54 AM
  #113
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Let me play devils advocate here
Why do the players refuse to care about it?
Its always: Wah Wah they want to take money from us.
They are not even challenging the owners on their financial reasoning behind those take aways. They basically agree that the league as a whole is not financially healthy but the PA does not care. The only thing they do is care about them not losing any money.

Why didn't they push for heavy revenue sharing?
That issue was settled amazingly quick.
The players don't give a crap about the NHL product as a whole. Even less than Bettman and the owners.

If they were truely interested in the game of hockey, both the NHL and NHLPA wouldve sat on a table and tried to fix the game and system as a whole. Everyone would benefit from a healthy prospering league.
But in the end both only care about their bottom line and wish that the other party rots in hell. That is why we have those lockouts all the friggin time.

If the Owners are locking out the players for the third time in 4 CBAs, isn't it reasonable to expect them to try and come up with a CBA that fixes the problem?

They're the ones saying the situation is so bad that we must cancel the league schedule for the third time.

Aren't hockey fans sick of this BS?

How many times must Bettman and the owners lockout the players to "fix the system" before HFBOARDS realizes that either 1) These guys are too incompetent to fix the system or 2) They're not actually trying to fix the system.

Fool me once. Shame on you.
Fool me twice?
Fool me a third time?
Gah...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...A3LuFLHM7hR.99

Something to consider in between raging about player tweets.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 01:55 AM
  #114
smackdaddy
Hall-RNH-Eberle
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Let me play devils advocate here
Why do the players refuse to care about it?
Its always: Wah Wah they want to take money from us.
They are not even challenging the owners on their financial reasoning behind those take aways. They basically agree that the league as a whole is not financially healthy but the PA does not care. The only thing they do is care about them not losing any money.

Why didn't they push for heavy revenue sharing?
That issue was settled amazingly quick.
The players don't give a crap about the NHL product as a whole. Even less than Bettman and the owners.

If they were truely interested in the game of hockey, both the NHL and NHLPA wouldve sat on a table and tried to fix the game and system as a whole. Everyone would benefit from a healthy prospering league.
But in the end both only care about their bottom line and wish that the other party rots in hell. That is why we have those lockouts all the friggin time.
Welcome to north American unions. This is the systemic reason why many of the unions in NA have lost their employees countless jobs. They see themselves as an adversary when in reality they are entirely and wholly dependent on the ownership for their livelihood.

The only country I have ever heard of that does not share this incredibly selfish and destructive stance are the unions from Japan and even they are starting to face this crises.

smackdaddy is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 01:58 AM
  #115
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Welcome to north American unions. This is the systemic reason why many of the unions in NA have lost their employees countless jobs. They see themselves as an adversary when in reality they are entirely and wholly dependent on the ownership for their livelihood.

The only country I have ever heard of that does not share this incredibly selfish and destructive stance are the unions from Japan and even they are starting to face this crises.
How about Germany, where labor unions are often represented on the corporate Board of Directors?

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 02:35 AM
  #116
The Bob Cole
Ohhhh Baby.
 
The Bob Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Centre Ice
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post

Having been an executive director for the union of a major pro sports league is enough of a resume for any other union he'd want to ever work for.

Which is why NHL players hired him.
And goes back to my point of "What have you done for me lately..."

If he isn't performing and delivering to the PA, other groups that need representation may look at him and think twice. They'll look elsewhere if he comes up weak in this position, regardless of what he has delivered in the past. It's what his most recent resume which will likely do most of the speaking.

The Bob Cole is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 03:34 AM
  #117
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,775
vCash: 500
Guillaume Latendresse said yesterday that he doesn't understand why 5 years limit on players' contract is an issue for the Union, saying guys that sign 5 years contracts are a rarity. About time players are waking up.

Kimota is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 04:05 AM
  #118
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,868
vCash: 500
They probably want to get back to working and receiving pay checks. I would. They only get one shot at this career. Time to cut the **** and get back to living their dream.

rt is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 06:03 AM
  #119
Nabokov20
Karlsson for Chuck
 
Nabokov20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,677
vCash: 1706
when will the players realize that they have it pretty good and that they wasted half a season over nothing and that they damaged the reputation of the sport? fehrwell nhl

Nabokov20 is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 06:54 AM
  #120
JoemAvs
Registered User
 
JoemAvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,828
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
How about Germany, where labor unions are often represented on the corporate Board of Directors?
I know quite a bit about Germany . It is certainly not close to being as bad as in the US it seems but it is not labour paradise either. Quite a lot of strikes going on usually.

To answer your statement about the 4 lockouts:
There are usually two guilty parties.

I just don't get why the Players are hell bent on keeping every single cent and not giving an inch and crying about being locked out again and than at the same time they want a shorter CBA and are not interested in the longterm health of the league.

I just don't get it. If the NHL makes money and is profitable after the next CBA, there will be no lockout. And if there is one, all of a sudden the players would be in the drivers seat.
The owners have nothing to lose by playing hardball as long as they are not making money.
So if I am the PA, I try my best to change this.
But Fehr and Co are not interested in this. They just want to fight for every penny even if it would break the league.

I just think that is foolish.

JoemAvs is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 07:23 AM
  #121
swimmer77
What's an ROW?
 
swimmer77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in water
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If it's free that only makes their absence worse.

IF they can't take a free trip to NY to get involved then they can keep their mouths shut.

Look I'm not on one side or the other, but I know how you're supposed to act in a union, and going public with your own little issues is not the right way to act.
So 700 guys take a trip to NYC?

Having said that - what do you see as the role of a player rep?

swimmer77 is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 07:49 AM
  #122
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabokov20 View Post
when will the players realize that they have it pretty good and that they wasted half a season over nothing and that they damaged the reputation of the sport? fehrwell nhl
They learned nothing from last time, and this time they are trying to play the victim, orchestrated by the Don...what's 1.8B time Zero again? Well played boys...

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 08:07 AM
  #123
grog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 49
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Welcome to north American unions. This is the systemic reason why many of the unions in NA have lost their employees countless jobs. They see themselves as an adversary when in reality they are entirely and wholly dependent on the ownership for their livelihood.

The only country I have ever heard of that does not share this incredibly selfish and destructive stance are the unions from Japan and even they are starting to face this crises.
Do yourself a favor and stop commenting, with an opinion as biased and uninformed as that nothing you say on the issue has credibility.

The rest of this thread is so full of nonsense it's embarrassing, yes, Fehr has a personal vendetta against big business and wants to destroy them even if it means taking the players down too. How incredibly ridiculous would you have to be to honestly believe that?

I know children, Fehr took away your toys and now you want them back! Both sides are playing the same game, the sun will rise tomorrow whether or not the NHLPA decides to accept what you think is fair for them. Get over it already.

grog is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 08:17 AM
  #124
grog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 49
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
They learned nothing from last time, and this time they are trying to play the victim, orchestrated by the Don...what's 1.8B time Zero again? Well played boys...
Why don't you tell them what they should get paid, go ahead, tell us all what they should make, it's not as though they earned what they did under some ownership controlled anything but free market over the past few yea...o wait.

Ill tell you what, if you don't like what they get paid, don't watch, because no matter how you slice it, the reason the cap went up is more people paid more money to watch those players that so many of you seem to have a hate on for. JUST STOP WATCHING, those players don't owe you a damn thing, or [mod] accept that everyone always wants as much as they can get and for better or worse this negotiation is just part of a process.


Last edited by Fugu: 12-09-2012 at 12:33 PM. Reason: make the point w/o the colorful adjectives, please
grog is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 08:26 AM
  #125
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grog View Post
Why don't you tell them what they should get paid, go ahead, tell us all what they should make, it's not as though they earned what they did under some ownership controlled anything but free market over the past few yea...o wait.

Ill tell you what, if you don't like what they get paid, don't watch, because no matter how you slice it, the reason the cap went up is more people paid more money to watch those players that so many of you seem to have a hate on for. JUST STOP WATCHING, those players don't owe you a damn thing, or [mod] accept that everyone always wants as much as they can get and for better or worse this negotiation is just part of a process.
MOD
Sounds like the negotiating hasn't gone the way you like it, but that's the way it goes...at the end of the day, I don't tell these guys anything, but the league and the owners do, and that's what they can't seem to accept?

BLONG7 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.