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Lockout Signings, Part II

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Old
12-08-2012, 11:32 AM
  #426
vorky
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
You know he could just leave russia and go play int he NHL if he wants... legal or not, what the khl gonna do about it.
NHL will not register his new NHL contract (Prokhorkin case) if he still have KHL contract.

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12-08-2012, 11:35 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Chesnokov is the undisputed #1 source for anything related to Russian hockey or Russian hockey players. I'm pretty sure he knows every Russian hockey player that has played in the NHL almost personally and I'm sure he has direct contact with just about every KHL team and the league itself.
And? His conclusion about Omark/Harju was false. His article about KHL RFA system is false. You dont have to know players, managers .. you need to know law, rules. Seems he did not (doesnt)

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12-08-2012, 11:42 AM
  #428
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Chesnokov is a good source, yet he's been proven wrong. Law is a special thing.

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12-08-2012, 11:44 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
Chesnokov is a good source, yet he's been proven wrong. Law is a special thing.
I agree.

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12-08-2012, 12:09 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
KHL/NHL memorandum doesn't make a difference between RFA and UFA IIRC (that's why the likes of Vladimir Tarasenko, KHL RFAs, could walk away freely). It is about whether player has a current contract or not. ROR doesn't.
This.

O'Reilly has no affiliation with the NHL without a contract... simply a restriction in the context of the non-existent NHLPA-NHL relationship which dictates that the Colorado Avalanche have the right to match any NHL contract he wishes to sign.

The Avs & NHL have absolutely no claim to the KHL about O'Reilly. He's a free agent an free to chose where he wants to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Two words, Denis Parshin.


I really don't understand why he couldn't notify them. On one hand people say he has no contract, so if he has no contract why would league rules apply to him? On the other he is a RFA, during a lockout season, so he hasn't been released from the club. His Dec 1st deadline has passed to play in the NHL this season, would that be a problem or not?

There's a billion technicality questions that this lockout causes, but the one which has yet to be answered is why the KHL would have dominion over our RFAs AND their own RFAs but the NHL clubs wouldn't.
Both the NHL and NHL Players have been instructed not to talk to each other. It circumvents the collective bargaining process.

The KHL doesn't have claim to free agents any more than the NHL does, unless signing a KHL contract gives the KHL team a mechanism to extend the contract without the player's consent. This would be similar to the NHL-Team elected arbitration, where by a certain date a team can force the extension of certain player's contracts at a salary as determined by arbitrator.


Last edited by seanlinden: 12-08-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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12-08-2012, 02:44 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
bananaz
Your statement says this: nhl players are slaves.
LOL. That's a bit dramatic

If I were to up and leave my current job without informing anyone, I wouldnt be expecting many kind words from my manager when they find out and I most certainly wouldnt try and go back to my original company asking for a new job later on. This doesnt make me a slave, it makes me a prudent human being.

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12-08-2012, 02:46 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drij View Post
You know he could just leave russia and go play int he NHL if he wants... legal or not, what the khl gonna do about it.
Well... Actually no he cannot.

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12-08-2012, 02:51 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
NHL will not register his new NHL contract (Prokhorkin case) if he still have KHL contract.
Oh but Alexander Radulov can sign in both leagues and get away with it?

and btw, the NHL didn't have a problem with Prokhorkin, the KHL did.

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12-08-2012, 03:04 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drij View Post
Oh but Alexander Radulov can sign in both leagues and get away with it?

and btw, the NHL didn't have a problem with Prokhorkin, the KHL did.
Radulov is past, there is MoU in place NOW. Dont bring Radulov case again, it is pointless TODAY and for FUTURE.

Yes, KHL had problem with Prokhorkin and NHL said "yes, he has valid KHL contract, we dont register his NHL one" All story.

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12-08-2012, 03:40 PM
  #435
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Kyle Turris has left his lockout team Kärpät, stating "personal reasons".

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12-08-2012, 10:52 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Both the NHL and NHL Players have been instructed not to talk to each other. It circumvents the collective bargaining process.
Yeah, about the LOCKOUT. I guess Crosby and Birkle circumvented the CBA process a few weeks back when they got together to try and bridge the gap. I guess when Wild management talked to Harding about his unfortunate diagnosis, that was circumventing the CBA as well. lol get real

Just like agents and GMs don't talk to each other BEFORE 12 noon on July 1st. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bure View Post
Well... Actually no he cannot.
Since you smart guys have all 'figured out' that O'Reilly CANNOT leave his Russian team without being offered a better deal than the one he signed in the NHL, do you think that:

A) He signed a reasonable deal based on the negotiations he had during the summer with the Avs (so somewhere between $3M-$4M per season)?

or

B) He broke the bank knowing full well that there's a chance the Avs might not want to pony up that ca$h, all the while alienating himself to the team who will either let him 'rot' over in Russia or trade him a few months later after having matched the Russian offer?

My bet is on "A" although there is a lesser chance that it's "B". I think O'Reilly is a smart kid that's in a pretty good situation in Colorado. He's the ultimate team guy and I'd be very surprised based on his character, if he ever put the organization in a 'bad spot' so-to-speak. What's more likely is that he put a FLOOR on what he expects to be paid going forward and that's likely a number the Avs won't have any problem paying.

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12-09-2012, 02:15 AM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Yeah, about the LOCKOUT. I guess Crosby and Birkle circumvented the CBA process a few weeks back when they got together to try and bridge the gap. I guess when Wild management talked to Harding about his unfortunate diagnosis, that was circumventing the CBA as well. lol get real

Just like agents and GMs don't talk to each other BEFORE 12 noon on July 1st. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.



Since you smart guys have all 'figured out' that O'Reilly CANNOT leave his Russian team without being offered a better deal than the one he signed in the NHL, do you think that:

A) He signed a reasonable deal based on the negotiations he had during the summer with the Avs (so somewhere between $3M-$4M per season)?

or

B) He broke the bank knowing full well that there's a chance the Avs might not want to pony up that ca$h, all the while alienating himself to the team who will either let him 'rot' over in Russia or trade him a few months later after having matched the Russian offer?

My bet is on "A" although there is a lesser chance that it's "B". I think O'Reilly is a smart kid that's in a pretty good situation in Colorado. He's the ultimate team guy and I'd be very surprised based on his character, if he ever put the organization in a 'bad spot' so-to-speak. What's more likely is that he put a FLOOR on what he expects to be paid going forward and that's likely a number the Avs won't have any problem paying.
I'm betting B, why else would he sign a two year deal when every other player is signing lockout deals and not 2 yr ones. I have no doubt its his agents idea and O'Reilly might not realize the outcome if the Aves take this as an insult.

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12-09-2012, 02:39 AM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I'm betting B, why else would he sign a two year deal when every other player is signing lockout deals and not 2 yr ones. I have no doubt its his agents idea and O'Reilly might not realize the outcome if the Aves take this as an insult.
The other players who have been signing lockout deals are contracted NHL players, O'Reilly does not currently have an NHL contract therefore wouldn't be able to sign that kind of deal. And even if he could Magnitogorsk I believe already have the max number of lockout contracts that the KHL has allowed.

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Old
12-09-2012, 02:55 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
The other players who have been signing lockout deals are contracted NHL players, O'Reilly does not currently have an NHL contract therefore wouldn't be able to sign that kind of deal. And even if he could Magnitogorsk I believe already have the max number of lockout contracts that the KHL has allowed.
I find it hard to believe he couldn't find a team to sign him to a 1 yr deal with the same clause this one has. I wish we could find out what he signed for but I bet its not an amount the Aves will be happy about. I'm not saying he won't come back right away when the NHL comes back, I just think he's using this as a negotiation tactic.

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12-09-2012, 03:03 AM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I find it hard to believe he couldn't find a team to sign him to a 1 yr deal with the same clause this one has. I wish we could find out what he signed for but I bet its not an amount the Aves will be happy about. I'm not saying he won't come back right away when the NHL comes back, I just think he's using this as a negotiation tactic.
Couldn't agree with you more. The thing is, even if the Avs won't offer him enough, I'm sure there'll be a team more than happy to offersheet him and give up a couple picks for a sure thing

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12-09-2012, 03:28 AM
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I find it hard to believe he couldn't find a team to sign him to a 1 yr deal with the same clause this one has. I wish we could find out what he signed for but I bet its not an amount the Aves will be happy about. I'm not saying he won't come back right away when the NHL comes back, I just think he's using this as a negotiation tactic.
so believe it. Russian based clubs have limit for foreigners (5 per team) and all of them have already 5 foreigners. Magnitogorsk had 4, now have 5.

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12-09-2012, 03:39 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
so believe it. Russian based clubs have limit for foreigners (5 per team) and all of them have already 5 foreigners. Magnitogorsk had 4, now have 5.
Does his contract count as a " foreign contract" when he does not have a NHL contract? It sounds like he signed a regular KHL contract with a stipulation that he could return the the NHL if he gets a better offer from the Aves.

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12-09-2012, 03:46 AM
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
Does his contract count as a " foreign contract" when he does not have a NHL contract?
yes

Quote:
It sounds like he signed a regular KHL contract
yes

Quote:
with a stipulation that he could return the the NHL
verbal one, not binding

Quote:
if he gets a better offer from the Aves.
that is only a statement for media, not legally binding. He can leave Magnitogorks if he gets worse offer from NHL - LEGALLY. But ROR and Magnitogorsk have verbal-not binding-deal that Magnitogorsk will consider termination of contract only if he gets better offer from NHL.

For more info re-read previous pages of this thread, I dont want to write the same thing again.

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12-09-2012, 10:26 AM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
Oh but Alexander Radulov can sign in both leagues and get away with it?
Radulov is the reason that both leagues now honor the others contracts. His case set the precedent, he was the last player that would be allowed to have a contract in both leagues.

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12-09-2012, 10:39 AM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I find it hard to believe he couldn't find a team to sign him to a 1 yr deal with the same clause this one has. I wish we could find out what he signed for but I bet its not an amount the Aves will be happy about. I'm not saying he won't come back right away when the NHL comes back, I just think he's using this as a negotiation tactic.
Yeah, well, the other teams don't have his brother.

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12-09-2012, 11:09 AM
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
I find it hard to believe he couldn't find a team to sign him to a 1 yr deal with the same clause this one has.
What would be the benefit of that for him? if he has a release clause (assuming it's honoured) then it doesn't matter whether the contract is one or two years, it doesn't hamper him playing in the NHL either way. But with a two year contract the advantage for him I guess is that he has somewhere to play if the lockout were to stretch into next season (and if that happened presumably there would be more NHL'ers looking for work overseas than there are now and hence more competition for contracts).

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12-09-2012, 02:25 PM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
Does his contract count as a " foreign contract" when he does not have a NHL contract? It sounds like he signed a regular KHL contract with a stipulation that he could return the the NHL if he gets a better offer from the Aves.
Foreign contract refers to the number of foreigners on the team.

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12-09-2012, 02:39 PM
  #448
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Matt Duchene will play with Ambri Piotta (Switzerland). He signed a contract until the 31.12.

http://www.hcap.ch/it/article/1855/m...he-nhl-ad-ambr

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12-09-2012, 03:09 PM
  #449
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Have you seen me answering the question in that post? I just said that no matter what, KHL considers O'Reilly a free agent, free from any obligations to the Avs...
Okay, thanks. It was worth pointing out the difference between laws (of a country resp. different countries) and rules arising from agreements between leagues though. The categorial difference is often overlooked in KHL/NHL contract debates and both categories get mixed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Radulov is the reason that both leagues now honor the others contracts. His case set the precedent, he was the last player that would be allowed to have a contract in both leagues.
Radulov signed in Russia mere days before the international agreement was made and the signing was only announced afterwards. I think that suggests the agreement was already worked out before the Radulov affair itself and his case was not the precedent for the agreement.

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12-09-2012, 03:11 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
Okay, thanks. It was worth pointing out the difference between laws (of a country resp. different countries) and rules arising from agreements between leagues though. The categorial difference is often overlooked in KHL/NHL contract debates and both categories get mixed up.



Radulov signed in Russia mere days before the international agreement was made and the signing was only announced afterwards. I think that suggests the agreement was already worked out before the Radulov affair itself and his case was not the precedent for the agreement.
I seem to remember it differently. The agreement was done soon after, almost winging it as if Radulov kicked something lose. It was not mere days, it was a few (very few) weeks.

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