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Lockout Thread 2: Deal reached in early morning hours

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12-08-2012, 02:31 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
NHL wanted to get games going here in December to get 60 games in (Thus full share on sponser $$$)

Because of Fehr that wont happen

Many believe 48 games is minimum the NHL can play (So a deal needs to be in place early Jan)

But the NHL will reduce there make whole (If they put it back on table) because Fehr just cost them alot of money and the NHLPA would probably complain so the likelyhood is there wont be a season now because of Fehr
I must agree. Before Thursday I had Dec 22 pegged as the season start. Little did I know what went done Wednesday late afternoon, the moment the mention of Fehr's name the mood in that room had changed ... and sure enough he didn't disappoint. When he played the moving target game after the moderates had offered a fabulous deal, the season could very well have ended there and then. There's still feint hope but only if the players are smart enough to realize what they need to do. Soft peddle back to Wednesday's offer and tell Fehr to shut the **** up until they ask for his opinion. Surely they have been a part of the proceedings enough to realize that Fehr is holding everything back to getting a deal done, with his own agenda.

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12-08-2012, 02:40 PM
  #152
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The mood didnt change when his name was mentioned. The mood changed when the league found out the players were going to be giving them a couter proposal. It was a take it or leave it offer...thats why talks fell apart.

If you honestly think that the deal fell apart because Fehr showed up and not because the players didnt accept their take it or leave it offer, then you are out to lunch.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-with-Don.html

Mathieu Schneider breaks down the meeting here.

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12-08-2012, 02:58 PM
  #153
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The mood didnt change when his name was mentioned. The mood changed when the league found out the players were going to be giving them a couter proposal. It was a take it or leave it offer...thats why talks fell apart.

If you honestly think that the deal fell apart because Fehr showed up and not because the players didnt accept their take it or leave it offer, then you are out to lunch.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-with-Don.html

Mathieu Schneider breaks down the meeting here.
^
NHLPA exec breaks it down

The truth as confirmed by numerous players to various credible writters ,, They players thought they were close to deal and were happy to be ready to play

Then Fehr advised them to hold out for more ,, Thus why the mood change happened Wed that owners talked about and the strategy changed

Fehr is reason the process died ,, They were on path to a deal until he talked to players and reentered the talks

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12-08-2012, 03:07 PM
  #154
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Quotes from Ron Hainsey:

"There was clearly a communication issue with what transpired across the table," added Hainsey. "They hadn't understood it properly I guess, or it just hadn't been communicated right and there was an issue there and so that was when I thought it was troublesome. We needed to think about getting the lead guys back in there; both sides not just our side because being clear and getting this done we felt was there to do."
Hainsey and the players indicated that the small group dynamic was over, that Don Fehr was coming back in. He says the owners told them that could be a deal breaker. NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly clarified the league's position via e-mail to TSN, saying "totally within their rights to do, but response of our owners was "if that's the case, don't expect us to stay involved."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411173

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12-08-2012, 05:41 PM
  #155
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...e-cba-wreckage

Burnside on what went down.

Quote:
Junk Example 1
Fehr came to the media Thursday night and went on and on about how close he thought they were to a deal, when he had to know that the owners were going to reject the proposal because it didnít meet their three areas of concern. The league asked for a yes-or-no answer from the playersí association on three pivotal issues: capping contracts at five years, a 10-year term for a new CBA and no buyouts or caps on escrow as part of the transition to a new deal. Instead of responding as the league asked, the union tried to negotiate those issues. Forget whether those issues are valid or not. Fehrís act with players in attendance was shameful, a blatant attempt to paint the owners as the villains who walked away with a deal in the offing. It simply wasnít true. Have to wonder what Sidney Crosby, a major player in these talks and one of the reasons for the rush of optimism that attached itself to talks earlier in the week, thought about the sad little drama that played out in a Manhattan hotel Thursday. Those are the kinds of petty stunts that can quickly erode a leaderís base of support.

Junk Example 2
There is no doubt that someone from the ownersí side told the players that if they wanted to bring Fehr back to the table after a couple of days of promising talks with just owners and players in the room, it was a potential deal-breaker. The league can spin how it went down, but it is clear such a message was conveyed to the players and there is no excuse for that. The owners may hate Fehr, and itís clear he has got under the skin of the ownership group, but suck it up. Heís their guy and, if thereís a deal to be had here, it will be with Fehr at the table. The continued efforts to hack away at Fehrís credibility with the players only galvanizes a membership that is mostly desperate to play hockey again. Another example of the leagueís failed strategy.
The owners are being idiots 1st. Almost like a shady detective trying to get a suspect to sign off on a confession without his attorney.

Fehr compounds this with a cheap publicity stunt. The owners fire back by rejecting the PA's offer via VM, during his presser I might add. I don't think any of this is a coincidence. Both sides are idiots and care more about their egos than getting this solved.


Last edited by HawksFan74: 12-08-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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12-08-2012, 05:47 PM
  #156
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The league said Fehr was a deal breaker to look better on the PR side of things. They were never willing to negotiate off of their last offer, it was a take it or leave it, and lots of players didnt want it, so they put together another proposal. The league had no interest in negotiating, thats why it fell apart.

Not only that, the players cant close a deal without Fehr anyway. If they wanted to take the deal, they would of told Fehr to take it.

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12-08-2012, 05:58 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
The league said Fehr was a deal breaker to look better on the PR side of things. They were never willing to negotiate off of their last offer, it was a take it or leave it, and lots of players didnt want it, so they put together another proposal. The league had no interest in negotiating, thats why it fell apart.

Not only that, the players cant close a deal without Fehr anyway. If they wanted to take the deal, they would of told Fehr to take it.
Alot of players wanted to take it ,, Fehr talked them out of it

And the NHLPA has not wanted Bettman part of process so what difference is there?

Its no coincidance that Tuesday night the moderate owners left meeting thinking they were on path to a deal

Wed the NHLPA after consulting with Fehr were refusing to make deal

Simple reality as confirmed by Dater's interview with a player ,, Fehr killed the deal

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12-08-2012, 06:05 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Alot of players wanted to take it ,, Fehr talked them out of it

And the NHLPA has not wanted Bettman part of process so what difference is there?

Its no coincidance that Tuesday night the moderate owners left meeting thinking they were on path to a deal

Wed the NHLPA after consulting with Fehr were refusing to make deal

Simple reality as confirmed by Dater's interview with a player ,, Fehr killed the deal
Where do you get the term alot? That is pure speculation. The Dater interview has no player attached to it, it limits credibility. Has no bearing on whether it would pass a vote.

The PA did not take the position the NHL did vs. Fehr. That was wrong on their part.

You guys can point the finger and say who's right or wrong. It's not black and white.

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12-08-2012, 06:14 PM
  #159
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Where do you get the term alot? That is pure speculation. The Dater interview has no player attached to it, it limits credibility. Has no bearing on whether it would pass a vote.

The PA did not take the position the NHL did vs. Fehr. That was wrong on their part.

You guys can point the finger and say who's right or wrong. It's not black and white.
Bobby Mac himself said many players liked the 10 yr offer of owners

Dater is very credible ,, You really gonna accuse him of lying? (He writtes for SI , Covers the Avs and has been long established)

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12-08-2012, 06:19 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Bobby Mac himself said many players liked the 10 yr offer of owners

Dater is very credible ,, You really gonna accuse him of lying? (He writtes for SI , Covers the Avs and has been long established)
1 player with no name attached lends no credibility to the argument. Maybe there is 1 owner who would sign the PA's deal. It doesn't matter if nether side can pass the deal. We don't even know the entire context of the conversation.

They still didn't like the entire deal enough to vote on it. All of this is pure speculation. Until a player comes forward and actually speaks out, it's all B.S. If there was a good portion of the PA that felt the NHL deal was fair, it would be done by now. There is not.

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12-08-2012, 07:04 PM
  #161
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1 player with no name attached lends no credibility to the argument. Maybe there is 1 owner who would sign the PA's deal. It doesn't matter if nether side can pass the deal. We don't even know the entire context of the conversation.

They still didn't like the entire deal enough to vote on it. All of this is pure speculation. Until a player comes forward and actually speaks out, it's all B.S. If there was a good portion of the PA that felt the NHL deal was fair, it would be done by now. There is not.
^
A well respected writter saying an NHL player told him that Fehr told the NHLPA to hold out and not accept deal is not credible?

It fits exactly with what the owners said... Went to sleep Tuesday thinking they were on verge of deal and come Wed (After players consulted Fehr) the entire attitude had changed from NHLPA

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12-08-2012, 07:10 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
^
A well respected writter saying an NHL player told him that Fehr told the NHLPA to hold out and not accept deal is not credible?

It fits exactly with what the owners said... Went to sleep Tuesday thinking they were on verge of deal and come Wed (After players consulted Fehr) the entire attitude had changed from NHLPA
Um, we know Fehr/PA didn't accept the deal. They countered, that's a fact. I don't see what your point is. Both sides agree to this version of events. What does this have to do with the Drater report?

Why can't the league sit and continue to negotiate when they receive an offer? Why do they have to throw a tantrum and go home?

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12-08-2012, 07:51 PM
  #163
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How dare you counter our proposal.

We're out of here!

GET TO THE CHOPPAS!

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12-08-2012, 07:53 PM
  #164
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How dare you counter our proposal.

We're out of here!

GET TO THE CHOPPAS!
NHLPA countered it using #'s from 10 yr deal

That is no go ,, 300M make whole and other financial aspects were contingent on 10 yr deal

NHLPA took all those and apply them to 8 yr deal (Which really would be 6 yr CBA with NHLPA opt out clause)

So it was easily absurd in NHL's eyes

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12-08-2012, 09:09 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
NHLPA countered it using #'s from 10 yr deal

That is no go ,, 300M make whole and other financial aspects were contingent on 10 yr deal

NHLPA took all those and apply them to 8 yr deal (Which really would be 6 yr CBA with NHLPA opt out clause)

So it was easily absurd in NHL's eyes
Yep, we know. It's accept their deal or go home. The same thing they did the last time they walked out but you know what, they changed their offer. What's the point of walking out every time, stay there and negotiate.

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12-08-2012, 09:20 PM
  #166
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Yep, we know. It's accept their deal or go home. The same thing they did the last time they walked out but you know what, they changed their offer. What's the point of walking out every time, stay there and negotiate.
Why didn't the PA just say yes or no like the owners asked them to? Then they could continue to negotiate after that. The PA wasted a whole day on purpose. Fehr just wanted to get under the owner's skins.

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12-08-2012, 09:24 PM
  #167
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Why didn't the PA just say yes or no like the owners asked them to? Then they could continue to negotiate after that. The PA wasted a whole day on purpose. Fehr just wanted to get under the owner's skins.
Because they were posturing. What else?

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12-09-2012, 04:44 AM
  #168
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I don't think it was the counter proposal that drove of the NHL. I think it was how the PA negotiated that day then the Fehr presser that drove them off.

First progress was being made and they where indeed very close. But then the PA wants to bring back the mediators. WHY? You bring in mediators when your at a stand still, when talks have been going in circles and nothing is getting accomplished. Not when you have made progress and are closer then ever.

Then there was the presser. That was the straw. If with no word to the media and quitely they NHLPA made a counter offer I don't think the NHL pulls their deal, but when Fehr is up there lying to everyone about the talks that just pissed them off.

Say what you will but more and more it's coming out Fehr may have just gone once too far. Rob Scuderi said today he thinks many players would have accepted the NHL's offer and Jeremy Roenick who as we all know is no friend of Bettman thinks Fehr is pushing too far.

It's one thing to get the best deal, it's another to just keep pushing because eventually you'll push to hard and the other side will push back.

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12-09-2012, 07:37 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I don't think it was the counter proposal that drove of the NHL. I think it was how the PA negotiated that day then the Fehr presser that drove them off.

First progress was being made and they where indeed very close. But then the PA wants to bring back the mediators. WHY? You bring in mediators when your at a stand still, when talks have been going in circles and nothing is getting accomplished. Not when you have made progress and are closer then ever.

Then there was the presser. That was the straw. If with no word to the media and quitely they NHLPA made a counter offer I don't think the NHL pulls their deal, but when Fehr is up there lying to everyone about the talks that just pissed them off.

Say what you will but more and more it's coming out Fehr may have just gone once too far. Rob Scuderi said today he thinks many players would have accepted the NHL's offer and Jeremy Roenick who as we all know is no friend of Bettman thinks Fehr is pushing too far.

It's one thing to get the best deal, it's another to just keep pushing because eventually you'll push to hard and the other side will push back.
And that's where we are. The push back we are going to see now will be hard ball. The moderates came oh so close but Fehr has pushed his luck and has likely cost the players millions in lost salary now and in the future.

Those that are intimate with the baseball situation in which Fehr was involved, to a man are not the least surprised of what is going down here. It's sad to watch this manipulative little man create such havoc for millions of people in and around the NHL.

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12-09-2012, 09:39 AM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I don't think it was the counter proposal that drove of the NHL. I think it was how the PA negotiated that day then the Fehr presser that drove them off.

First progress was being made and they where indeed very close. But then the PA wants to bring back the mediators. WHY? You bring in mediators when your at a stand still, when talks have been going in circles and nothing is getting accomplished. Not when you have made progress and are closer then ever.

Then there was the presser. That was the straw. If with no word to the media and quitely they NHLPA made a counter offer I don't think the NHL pulls their deal, but when Fehr is up there lying to everyone about the talks that just pissed them off.

Say what you will but more and more it's coming out Fehr may have just gone once too far. Rob Scuderi said today he thinks many players would have accepted the NHL's offer and Jeremy Roenick who as we all know is no friend of Bettman thinks Fehr is pushing too far.


It's one thing to get the best deal, it's another to just keep pushing because eventually you'll push to hard and the other side will push back.
We don't know that yet. Fehr has one job, to get the PA the best possible deal. Did he go too far? Well that depends on the deal the players eventually end up singing. If he would have accepted the offer back in November like many on here thought they should, he would of done a disservice to the PA. The offers have improved from the NHL even though the claim every proposal is their best possible offer & they walk away as soon as the PA doesn't work within the framework of their offer.

If they agree to deal in the next two weeks somewhere in the middle of the two, he's absolutely done his job. What's another few weeks when a 7-10 CBA is about to be locked in. If we lose a season then we can lynch Fehr, until then it's one giant witch hunt by this board. He's playing a game of chicken, pretty dangerous one but I respect that.

So why BWC and others want to blame Fehr for all that is wrong. The union can force a vote, it's not entirely his decision. They can replace him if they want. None of this has happened despite the lone player that cried out to the media. It was probably Sopel.


Last edited by HawksFan74: 12-09-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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12-09-2012, 11:31 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Alot of players wanted to take it ,, Fehr talked them out of it

And the NHLPA has not wanted Bettman part of process so what difference is there?

Its no coincidance that Tuesday night the moderate owners left meeting thinking they were on path to a deal

Wed the NHLPA after consulting with Fehr were refusing to make deal

Simple reality as confirmed by Dater's interview with a player ,, Fehr killed the deal
BS, not a lot of players wanted to take it. It was 1 depth player who THOUGHT the players were getting a deal done. Dater tweeted later that the players denied that Fehr told them to hold out for more, so do you believe that too, since you believe other Dater posts?

The player he was talking to wasnt even in the room, and that player is also fine with Fehrs decision, says Dater.

The players are much more willing to deal with Bettman than the owners are willing to deal with Fehr. It's funny how Selig says the last negotiations he had with Fehr were handled professionally and in the best interest of the game.

Fehr did not kill the deal, the owners killed it by making it a take it or leave it "package". The players wanted to negotiate off of it.

Who the hell negotiates with take it or leave it offers? Bettman and the big 4, thats who.

The players have given 1bil $ in concessions, and given in to some contractual rights. What have the owners given back to the PA?

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12-09-2012, 11:52 AM
  #172
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/\ yep ... you keep convincing yourself of that as the season wastes away.

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12-09-2012, 02:32 PM
  #173
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I ****ing hate Fehr. Fire him and we have a shortened season. Want my NHL back

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12-09-2012, 03:36 PM
  #174
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With Bears season coming to end in a few weeks

Really need NHLPA/NHL to come together ,, Gonna be a miserable start to 2013 with no Bears/Hawks

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12-09-2012, 03:43 PM
  #175
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Why? The Hawks' season would be coming to an end too as soon as they lose their first game.

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