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Any drafted "prospect" that you'd take over RNH? (Read more)

View Poll Results: Is there any drafted player that has played less than 82gms that you'd take over RNH?
Yes 58 38.67%
No 92 61.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-09-2012, 01:51 AM
  #76
4EDM14OIL93
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Kreider>RNH

Funniest thing I've heard all day

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Old
12-09-2012, 01:52 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 4EDM14OIL93 View Post
Your posts make my brain hurt. So you would rather have goalies who have the potential to have a SV% about 5% higher than a goalie like Dubnyk, over RNH? Just doing the math in my head, that equates to about 12-13 less goals per year than Dubnyk, while RNH can potentially hit the 100 point mark a few times in his career. That makes zero sense.
Yes. Because Dubnyk might not be able to steal games. If Lehner and Markstrom work out, they could be game changers. I mean would you take RNH over Lundqvist? That's the way I look at it.

Again, I will always take the goaltender over the goal scorer. I don't care how many goals a goal scorer can score. If the goaltender gives up more goals than the team can score, what good is having a RNH?

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Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
I can understand wanting to build your team around a young up-and-comer like Schneider or Rask but Lehner and Markstrom are way too unproven to take over a potential first line center in RNH. Forwards and defensemen like RNH, Hamilton, Yakupov, etc. are far, FAR safer bets.
True, forgot about Schneider. Thought he played a bit more than 60+ games.

While they are safer bets to actually MAKE the NHL, it doesn't mean they are safer bets to make an impact like a good goaltender can.

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12-09-2012, 01:52 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
All those 'soft minutes 5 on 5' were against the best defensive pairings in the league.

He doesn't start in his own zone very much. Neither does Henrik Sedin.

How would you expect a 170 lb 18 year old to be deployed?
RNH barely got any d zone face offs except on icings. so yes i would call those soft minutes

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12-09-2012, 02:08 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Yes. Because Dubnyk might not be able to steal games. If Lehner and Markstrom work out, they could be game changers. I mean would you take RNH over Lundqvist? That's the way I look at it.

Again, I will always take the goaltender over the goal scorer. I don't care how many goals a goal scorer can score. If the goaltender gives up more goals than the team can score, what good is having a RNH?
Well first of all, you are just assuming that the goalie will allow more than the team scores. Second, if Lunqvist played on the Oilers, he would likely be around a 20 goal improvement on Dubnyk. RNH will certainly provide much more than 20 goals to the team. And this is Lundqvist not ****ing Lehner or Markstrom


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-09-2012 at 02:12 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
12-09-2012, 02:13 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Yes. Because Dubnyk might not be able to steal games. If Lehner and Markstrom work out, they could be game changers. I mean would you take RNH over Lundqvist? That's the way I look at it.
So, Lehner/Markstrom "working out" = Lundqvist?

Not to mention that RNH hasn't even played his sophomore season yet. Only heavens know how good he'll be.

You're talking as if Lehner and Markstrom turning into elite goalies is a sure thing, while RNH can't get any better while being younger than the two Swedes!

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12-09-2012, 02:41 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 4EDM14OIL93 View Post
Well first of all, you are just assuming that the goalie will allow more than the team scores. Second, if Lunqvist played on the Oilers, he would likely be around a 20 goal improvement on Dubnyk. RNH will certainly provide much more than 20 goals to the team. And this is Lundqvist not ****ing Lehner or Markstrom
And you're making assumptions. But I rather have a goalie than a goal scorer. Unless RNH turns out to be the next Malkin, Crosby or Ovechkin, I rather hedge by my bets on having a good goaltender. Hell even Steven Stamkos couldn't do crap on the Lightning due to their poor goaltending.

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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
So, Lehner/Markstrom "working out" = Lundqvist?

Not to mention that RNH hasn't even played his sophomore season yet. Only heavens know how good he'll be.

You're talking as if Lehner and Markstrom turning into elite goalies is a sure thing, while RNH can't get any better while being younger than the two Swedes!
Actually even if RNH turns into Stamkos, I rather have a goaltender like Lehner or Markstrom over someone like him as both of them have shown tremendous upside.

Also how many goals did RNH score against Hackett? How many goals has he scored in the AHL? 8 goals, 12 assists in 19 games? He's not exactly lighting it up in the AHL against some mediocre competition.

The question is, any drafted prospect that you'd take over RNH. And why?

Because a good goaltender can get you to the playoffs. A bad goaltender can keep you out. And truth be told, it's harder to find a good goaltender than guys that can score 20-30 goals and 50 assists a year.

I don't care if RNH turns into the next Stamkos. I care if the goaltender in my net turns into the next Lundqvist/Howard because that can and will make a difference.

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12-09-2012, 02:44 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
And you're making assumptions. But I rather have a goalie than a goal scorer. Unless RNH turns out to be the next Malkin, Crosby or Ovechkin, I rather hedge by my bets on having a good goaltender. Hell even Steven Stamkos couldn't do crap on the Lightning due to their poor goaltending.



Actually even if RNH turns into Stamkos, I rather have a goaltender like Lehner or Markstrom over someone like him as both of them have shown tremendous upside.

Also how many goals did RNH score against Hackett? How many goals has he scored in the AHL? 8 goals, 12 assists in 19 games? He's not exactly lighting it up in the AHL against some mediocre competition.

The question is, any drafted prospect that you'd take over RNH. And why?

Because a good goaltender can get you to the playoffs. A bad goaltender can keep you out. And truth be told, it's harder to find a good goaltender than guys that can score 20-30 goals and 50 assists a year.

I don't care if RNH turns into the next Stamkos. I care if the goaltender in my net turns into the next Lundqvist/Howard because that can and will make a difference.


Aside from your ridiculous acclaim, this stood out for me the most. Out of all goalies, Jimmy Howard? Oh lord.

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12-09-2012, 02:56 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post


Aside from your ridiculous acclaim, this stood out for me the most. Out of all goalies, Jimmy Howard? Oh lord.
You do realize that Howard had a pretty good SV% and GAA last season and has been a pretty good goaltender the past few seasons?

And what is so ridiculous about the fact that in the past 4 drafts, most of the top 10 picks had bad goaltenders:

2008:
Tampa Bay Lightning
Los Angeles Kings
Atlanta Thrashers
St. Louis Blues
Toronto Maple Leafs
Columbus Blue Jackets
Nashville Predators
Phoenix Coyotes
Florida Panthers
Vancouver Canucks

2009:
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay Lightning
Colorado Avalanche
Atlanta Thrashers
Los Angeles Kings
Phoenix Coyotes
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Ottawa Senators
Edmonton Oilers

2010:
Edmonton Oilers
Toronto Maple Laafs
Florida Panthers
Columbus Blue Jackets
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay Lightning
Carolina Hurricanes
Atlanta Thrashers
Minnesota Wild
New York Rangers

2011:
Edmonton Oilers
Colorado Avalanche
Florida Panthers
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Ottawa Senators
Winnipeg Jets
Columbus Blue Jackets
Toronto Maple Leafs
Minnesota Wild

So you're telling me that teams like Toronto, Colorado, Florida, New York Islanders, Ottawa, Columbus, Tampa Bay, who have players like Phil Kessel, John Tavares, Steven Stamkos, Jason Spezza, Rick Nash, Vincent LeCavalier, Martin St. Louis, Michael Grabner that their problem wasn't/isn't the goaltender but the actual forwards they have?

I guess we should tell Colorado that they need better forwards and to get back Anderson in the net, and that Columbus' problem wasn't Mason but they didn't have better forwards or that Ottawa needs to replace Spezza.

The fact is this; RNH is a great forward. There is no one doubting his ability or that he is going to be a good forward. Just how good? Who knows. But if I had to pick between a stellar goaltender or RNH. I'm taking the goaltender and then building from the net out.

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12-09-2012, 03:11 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
You do realize that Howard had a pretty good SV% and GAA last season and has been a pretty good goaltender the past few seasons?
Yes, but he is in no way close to as valuable as a #1 center. Ask Detroit fans if they'd rather have Howard over a Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Quote:
And what is so ridiculous about the fact that in the past 4 drafts, most of the top 10 picks had bad goaltenders:

2008:
Tampa Bay Lightning
Los Angeles Kings
Atlanta Thrashers
St. Louis Blues
Toronto Maple Leafs
Columbus Blue Jackets
Nashville Predators
Phoenix Coyotes
Florida Panthers
Vancouver Canucks

2009:
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay Lightning
Colorado Avalanche
Atlanta Thrashers
Los Angeles Kings
Phoenix Coyotes
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Ottawa Senators
Edmonton Oilers

2010:
Edmonton Oilers
Toronto Maple Laafs
Florida Panthers
Columbus Blue Jackets
New York Islanders
Tampa Bay Lightning
Carolina Hurricanes
Atlanta Thrashers
Minnesota Wild
New York Rangers

2011:
Edmonton Oilers
Colorado Avalanche
Florida Panthers
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Ottawa Senators
Winnipeg Jets
Columbus Blue Jackets
Toronto Maple Leafs
Minnesota Wild

So you're telling me that teams like Toronto, Colorado, Florida, New York Islanders, Ottawa, Columbus, Tampa Bay, who have players like Phil Kessel, John Tavares, Steven Stamkos, Jason Spezza, Rick Nash, Vincent LeCavalier, Martin St. Louis, Michael Grabner that their problem wasn't/isn't the goaltender but the actual forwards they have?
Goaltending was definitely the problem, but it wasn't the only problem. Team defense isn't strong on the teams you listed, you can argue that they have better use for defensemen.

Even with Florida, they had a .925 Vokoun and they still picked in the lottery. What was their biggest problem and what has been their franchise's problem? Goal scoring and offense.

Quote:
I guess we should tell Colorado that they need better forwards and to get back Anderson in the net, and that Columbus' problem wasn't Mason but they didn't have better forwards or that Ottawa needs to replace Spezza.
Anderson is a pretty good starting goalie, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I somewhat understand Columbus, but Mason is the worst goalie in the league by a wide margin. They have a big need for offense, which was 3rd worst in the league. I don't understand the Spezza point you're referencing to.

Quote:
The fact is this; RNH is a great forward. There is no one doubting his ability or that he is going to be a good forward. Just how good? Who knows. But if I had to pick between a stellar goaltender or RNH. I'm taking the goaltender and then building from the net out.
The main thing I'm puzzled about is that you're expecting Lehner/Markstrom to become a carbon copy of Lundqvist. Goalies are crapshoots in drafts and you really can't tell which one is significantly better than the other unless they prove it in the NHL. If goalie prospects weren't so hard to predict, then yes, I have no arguments with your opinion. Say if I had an 18 yr old Lundqvist and 18 yr old RNH battling it out for 1st overall, I'd take Lundqvist quite easily. It just doesn't work that way with goalies since they are possibly the hardest position players to predict maybe in all of sports.

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12-09-2012, 03:13 AM
  #85
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Crosby was "drafted," just a long time ago.

Can I have him?

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12-09-2012, 07:04 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
I get it. Unfortunately, 85% of the game is played at even strength
This is an utterly retarded position.

The people that fault players for being proficient on the PP make me shake my head every single time. Are you of the position that the PP isn't important? God forbid an 18 year old be one of the best PP players in the league and produce goals. I guess if it doesn't boost the advanced stats to an acceptable level, the player must suck.

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12-09-2012, 10:15 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
RNH barely got any d zone face offs except on icings. so yes i would call those soft minutes
RNH offensive zone start
62.5

Sedins' zone start
79.6
78.6


P. Kane zone start
66.3

Toews zone start
64.7

Malkin zone start
65.9

Gaborik zone start
63.0

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12-09-2012, 10:18 AM
  #88
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No, but I would consider Hamilton. If Strome keeps playing the way he has been and it's not just a fluke, than I would consider him also. But right now its RNH pretty easily.

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12-09-2012, 10:33 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseppi View Post
RNH offensive zone start
62.5

Sedins' zone start
79.6
78.6


P. Kane zone start
66.3

Toews zone start
64.7

Malkin zone start
65.9

Gaborik zone start
63.0
So you're telling me that offensively gifted players are getting offensive starts? mind=blown

I also absolutely hate the fact that some players are bashed for being extremely efficient on the PP, it's a horrible argument, what next should we fault players for being passers and not goalscorers?

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Old
12-09-2012, 12:23 PM
  #90
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Why in the world would a rookie centre be criticized for starting in the offensive zone? Isn't it evidence of his skill that he's already the most talented offensive player on his team? Play him where he's most effective.

No point in wearing down a rookie with 20+ minutes of ice time. RNH will be killing penalties before long but I can't understand why he's being cut down for his coach's (smart) decision to utilize his strengths.

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12-09-2012, 01:37 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseppi View Post
RNH offensive zone start
62.5

Sedins' zone start
79.6
78.6


P. Kane zone start
66.3

Toews zone start
64.7

Malkin zone start
65.9

Gaborik zone start
63.0
A+ reply

RNH shouldn't be criticized for smart coaching...

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12-09-2012, 01:46 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Why in the world would a rookie centre be criticized for starting in the offensive zone? Isn't it evidence of his skill that he's already the most talented offensive player on his team? Play him where he's most effective.

No point in wearing down a rookie with 20+ minutes of ice time. RNH will be killing penalties before long but I can't understand why he's being cut down for his coach's (smart) decision to utilize his strengths.
Or he cant be trusted taken on tough defensive assignments

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12-09-2012, 01:48 PM
  #93
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did someone in this thread say 80+ point players were easier to find then a good starting goalie? was it the guy who argued that you should take subban 1st overall b/c hes a legit number 1 goalie???

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12-09-2012, 01:50 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
So you're telling me that offensively gifted players are getting offensive starts? mind=blown

I also absolutely hate the fact that some players are bashed for being extremely efficient on the PP, it's a horrible argument, what next should we fault players for being passers and not goalscorers?
Obviously you don't understand how "easy" those minutes are. It's not like the opposition is putting out its best defenders against the Sedins, Kane, and Toews ...

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12-09-2012, 01:54 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Or he cant be trusted taken on tough defensive assignments
Just like Jonathan Toews? Who has more offensive zone starts than RNH.

RNH is only sheltered in that he is rarely put out against the opposition's top line. This makes him similar to almost every rookie who has ever played in the NHL.

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12-09-2012, 01:55 PM
  #96
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How about using QUALCOMP?

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12-09-2012, 02:00 PM
  #97
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How about he just had a really good rookie year and Edmonton put him in positions to succeed like all teams do and should do for all their players.

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12-09-2012, 02:28 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Or he cant be trusted taken on tough defensive assignments
Why would RNH, exceptional talent though he may be, play 20+ minutes a game in his rookie season? Especially when the team has defensive centers in Horcoff and Belanger for that role? Oilers fans know that his two-way instincts will have him playing a significant defensive role in a few years but it doesn't make a lick of damn sense to do that right now.

This is what happens when you extrapolate these stats to conclusions that they can't support. Whoever brought up Toews is bang on. Context matters.

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12-09-2012, 03:16 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Or he cant be trusted taken on tough defensive assignments
Or the Oilers have other centers who are adequate defensively but terrible offensively, so it wouldn't make any sense to play those centers in offensive situations.

Just because a player is amazing offensively and gets put into situations to take advantage of that doesn't mean he is horrendous defensively.

Toews had a higher zone start than RNH...

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12-09-2012, 04:08 PM
  #100
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Considering injury is the reason why RNH is currently less than 82 games played so far, i'd take that into consideration before annointing him 'king of the prospects.'

More like 'king of the injured rookies.'

Landeskog seems to be more reliable, and more of a factor without the puck. But he played 82 games.

Larsson and Couturier are also players who seem to be more reliable. The former having Norris possibility, the latter having Selke possibility.

Then insert Hamilton and Huberdeau as wildcards.

Certainly RNH might still win this, but it's far from guaranteed. He is sustaining bigtime shoulder injuries far too frequently to be annointed anything at this point.


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