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Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

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Old
12-09-2012, 09:51 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Logic Problem.

Take a 26th NHL team in the NHL overall standings, add (+) the 20th ranked prospect pool (@ HF & Hockey News) = Stanley Cup in how many years?

A bottom 5 NHL team (with over 1/2 current team on expiring contracts next season) & a bottom 10 NHL internal prospect pool seems like a long long way from a Cup winning team based on what exists today within in the organization.

Missing vital components like a #1 Centre & #1 Goalie absent from the organization not found in the current prospect pool nor on the current roster another glaring organizational weakness.

That seems terrible if you believe what HF is saying. I don't. I know we don't have a sure fire 1C and our G pool is hazy at best, but the rest of the future team is there for sure. Depth scorers (Kadri/Colborne/Frattin/McKegg/D'amigo/Leivo/Toninato/Cameranesci/Biggs) - Loads of D all over the spectrum (Reilly/Percy/Blacker/Finn/Holzer/) Plenty of utility types (Biggs/Ross/Devane/Broll/Ryan/Crescenzi/Rupert/Carrick)

Who knows what will really become of all of our goalies. Could all bomb, could be three starters there. So hard to tell, but I think I'd be happy with a vet 1C like Luongo.

I really like our pool when you think of the large variety of players you need for success and our chances of filling out a roster with what we have over the next few years. I really believe we have a lot of depth in our pool.

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Old
12-09-2012, 09:57 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
The best thing about 18-22 year olds is that anything can happen. I'd say it's close to impossible to accurately predict how they turn out(especially 18 year olds) no matter what a couple of sites say. Everyone matures differently.
Very true, but I like that Burke and Morrison have put a lot of depth players in our system. They have a lot of players all over the spectrum and this will just increase the odds of getting a few important players for us without having to trade for or sign them in UFA.

If the new CBA has a 5-7 year contract limit, getting top FA's and paying them max money will be key. You can't do that when you have a roster full of depth FA's like Armstrong and Komisarek. Kulemin would cost 4M as a UFA. A lot of our young guys will soon start to fill out our roster and Burke has a good history of getting guys signed to great deals. Kadri, Colborne, Frattin, D'amigo will soon take spots from Connoly, Mac, Bozak, Lombardi et al, saving us a lot of cap space.

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12-09-2012, 10:07 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Montreal is a better example I think

Both pools are apparently weak enough that their 2nd round picks in the 2012 draft are already their #5 ranked prospects. Their 1st round picks in the 2012 draft are already their #1 ranked prospects.

So the difference between Montreal's 2, 3, 4 (Beaulieu, Leblanc, Tinordi) is almost 12 spots on Toronto. lol
Montreal went up because they had a great draft this year. Colberg was a steal for Mtl in the second round many thought he would go in the 1st round. Leafs had a poor draft overall apart Reilly. The two frist picks given for Kessel is hurting their prospect ranking.

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12-09-2012, 10:09 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Means absolutely nothing.
Why not

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12-09-2012, 10:11 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
Montreal went up because they had a great draft this year. Colberg was a steal for Mtl in the second round many thought he would go in the 1st round. Leafs had a poor draft overall apart Reilly. The two frist picks given for Kessel is hurting their prospect ranking.
Yeah because the Leaf didn't draft anyone in the 2nd round that were supposed to go top 15...

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Old
12-09-2012, 10:11 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
Why not
A couple of really good prospects graduated. It's natural they'd slip. Burke adding Rielly/Finn was fantastic for our future last June.

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12-09-2012, 10:12 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
Why not
Because it didn't mean anything when they rated us a lot higher either.

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12-09-2012, 10:21 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Logic Problem.

Take a 26th NHL team in the NHL overall standings, add (+) the 20th ranked prospect pool (@ HF & Hockey News) = Stanley Cup in how many years?

A bottom 5 NHL team (with over 1/2 current team on expiring contracts next season) & a bottom 10 NHL internal prospect pool seems like a long long way from a Cup winning team based on what exists today within in the organization.

Missing vital components like a #1 Centre & #1 Goalie absent from the organization not found in the current prospect pool nor on the current roster another glaring organizational weakness.
Typical negative post from this poster. The thing is there is no reasoning because this poster just wants to argue. I post here negatively also,but of the 53 odd thousand posts,this poster is 99.99% negative from what i see.

I don't agree with you most likely from before you hit the power button on your PC this morning.

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12-09-2012, 10:22 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Because it didn't mean anything when they rated us a lot higher either.
I disagree. Rankings do change depending on how prospects are developing and who graduates to pro. It`s not a perfect science but in general I think the analysis they provide is a good indicator of the current situation of prospects across the league.

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12-09-2012, 10:25 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Typical negative post from this poster. The thing is there is no reasoning because this poster just wants to argue. I post here negatively also,but of the 53 odd thousand posts,this poster is 99.99% negative from what i see.

I don't agree with you most likely from before you hit the power button on your PC this morning.
This person is basically agreeing with Hockey`s future`s analysis. Not sure he`s being negative. Just realistic.

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12-09-2012, 10:44 AM
  #36
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I'm not the least bit surprised at this ranking.

We were 18th in the spring.

We did add Rielly and Finn which both look to be great additions at this point.

Blacker hasn't really improved or regressed so it's kind of a moot point in terms of his projection.

Percy has got his health back and looks to be a solid prospect which should be a gain for us.

However, on the flipside at this past draft we also didn't have any extra 1st or 2nd round picks like some other organizations (Pens, Buffalo, Washington). We also didn't draft in the 3rd or 4th round.

The same questions about Kadri that existed then still exist now.

Colborne has had a terrible start to the year.

Leafs fans are raving about Biggs and his intangibles in the OHL this year but in terms of offence a PPG 19 year old forward in the OHL isn't impressive at all when your talking about guys that are projected to make an impact at the NHL level. Lets see if he can pick it up as the season wears on.

The 1st round pick status of Ashton is quickly fading as he isn't even showing that he can put up points in the AHL let alone the NHL where he looked very overwhelmed last season. He is on the verge of being called a long shot project.

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Old
12-09-2012, 10:51 AM
  #37
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While the loss/graduation of Frattin/Gardner hurts - I will remind everyone that EVERY NHL TEAM HAS PROSPECTS THAT GRADUATED ALSO.

5th last overall in NHL
10 years without playoffs
20th ProspectRanking LOL

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12-09-2012, 10:57 AM
  #38
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This list doesn't mean much to me. If you looked at the top 3 prospects, maybe, but it's a crapshoot with all these prospects but particularly after the top 3. No one will convince me that the top 3 of Tampa are better prospects than Rielly, Kadri and Colborne (even with his "slump")

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12-09-2012, 11:07 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
I disagree. Rankings do change depending on how prospects are developing and who graduates to pro. It`s not a perfect science but in general I think the analysis they provide is a good indicator of the current situation of prospects across the league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Nashville has a strength in goaltending
Magnus Hellberg - 7.0 D
Marek Mazanec - 7.0 D
Jeremy Smith - 6.5 C
Chet Pickard - 6.5 D

Toronto has a weakness in top end goaltending
Mark Owuya - 7.0 C
Garrett Sparks - 7.0 D
Jussi Rynnas - 7.0 D
Ben Scrivens - 6.5 B

Similar, but based on those rankings one could definitely give Toronto an edge in goaltending, yet for us it's a weakness but Nashville has it as a strength.
Yup yup lots of A+ analysis right there.

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12-09-2012, 11:09 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
Montreal went up because they had a great draft this year. Colberg was a steal for Mtl in the second round many thought he would go in the 1st round. Leafs had a poor draft overall apart Reilly. The two frist picks given for Kessel is hurting their prospect ranking.
Matt Finn says hi.

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Old
12-09-2012, 11:17 AM
  #41
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Chicago is ranked 9th.
Toronto is ranked 20th

In goaltending I would give Toronto a slight edge of Toronto, but only slightly because quite frankly both teams don't have all that great of goaltending prospects.

In defense I give Toronto a definite edge. Toronto has 2 players with a higher number ranking than Chicago's highest.

In forwards each team has 2 players at 7.5 C (nobody higher than this for either team). Chicago has 8 additional players at 7.0 C while Toronto has 5 players at this ranking. I would give Chicago the edge in forward.

Toronto I would give a slight edge in goaltending and an edge in defense. Chicago has the edge at forwards over Toronto.

Chicago's edge in forwards in my opinion does not catapult them over Toronto's edge in goaltending, defense as well as 11 rankings.

List has faults.


Edit: If you wanted to look at the teams prospects for yourself instead of taking my word:
Chicago: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/chicago_blackhawks/
Toronto: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/toronto_maple_leafs/

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12-09-2012, 11:29 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
Montreal went up because they had a great draft this year. Colberg was a steal for Mtl in the second round many thought he would go in the 1st round. Leafs had a poor draft overall apart Reilly. The two frist picks given for Kessel is hurting their prospect ranking.
That's your opinion. How the hell did the Leafs have a poor draft when none of them have even played a game yet?

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12-09-2012, 11:33 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by pelletier666 View Post
This person is basically agreeing with Hockey`s future`s analysis. Not sure he`s being negative. Just realistic.
Realistic would encompass even minimally counting in the success the Marlies are having with developing these prospects into playing for the calder cup last year,and being not far off the conference leading Abbotsford Heat going into todays game.

The success the Marlies are having is more important to me than a ranking systen wether that ranking system is negative or positive. The marlies are ahead of the Oilers squad with Hopkins,Eberle,Hall,Paajarvi in the line-up.

There is something very positive going on at all levels below NHL with our prospects which tends to relate positively instead of believing a rank system with a negative spin 20 of 30 ranking.

It doesn't hold weight realistically speaking.

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12-09-2012, 11:34 AM
  #44
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That's your opinion. How the hell did the Leafs have a poor draft when none of them have even played a game yet?
Name familiarity. Montreal drafted a bunch of guys that the fans had heard of before the draft, and therefore had teh sickest draft EVAR

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12-09-2012, 11:50 AM
  #45
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Doesn't help that guys like Colborne, Blacker and Ashton aren't setting the AHL on fire. Colborne looks like he's ready to be written off completely. In general though, I'd like to see them take a flyer on those skilled European forwards in the second round and start beefing up the forward ranks. The forward quality is just woeful and let's be honest, those flashy forwards make a future look a lot brighter.

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12-09-2012, 12:29 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Typical negative post from this poster. The thing is there is no reasoning because this poster just wants to argue. I post here negatively also,but of the 53 odd thousand posts,this poster is 99.99% negative from what i see.

I don't agree with you most likely from before you hit the power button on your PC this morning.
Well this is no ground breaking thought process on my part to find solutions to the current situation, by stating what is.

If you have a bottom 5 NHL team and a bottom 10 ranked prospect pool and you hope to pass teams in the NHL standings that are already better or have better prospect pools then the options are;

1) Accept the situation you're in based on what it is.

2) Hope that somehow the team can get better players through trade/UFA to increase the talent level through outside help.

3) Let nature take its course and continue to play at the bottom of the NHL in order to obtain high draft picks as a reward for team failure and improve the prospect pool and future talent with the likes of more Morgan Rielly level additions via drafting and developing.

4) Denial, and not accept that the team isn't a bottom team on talent despite what the standings show, nor is the prospect pool ratings on HF or Hockey News accurate as being reported, and everything is fine, because both team and prospect pools are inaccurate and better than expected results are possible. Optimism the only way to address the situation if you like.

5) Give up on Leafs, and not follow hockey or switch teams to one in a better situation, if you're head rather than heart determines who you support.

6) Other ??

Those are some of the options available based on the evidence and facts as we know them.

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Old
12-09-2012, 12:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Name familiarity. Montreal drafted a bunch of guys that the fans had heard of before the draft, and therefore had teh sickest draft EVAR
I'm obviously a Habs fan, but if you look at the performance of the player's drafted, they're doing quite well across the board. So it's a bit more than name recognition.

Anyways, as for HF prospect rankings in terms of numbers <number>.<letter>, it's not very reliable since they have different writers performing the rankings and some writers are obviously much tougher than others.

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Old
12-09-2012, 12:52 PM
  #48
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Difficult to take seriously, but I'm sure the Burke haters will love it.
Hmm, hello troll. Actually, Leaf fans do not hate Brian - awesome human being, great guy to have around, generous to employees and fans. In fact, I'd genuinely offer that his off-ice exploits border on hero status.

It's just that in his role as manager, we are worse in the standings than when he took the reins those many years ago. Some of us now, and rightfully so, hold his feet to the fire for that. At the end of the sports day, many fans pay attention, time and money to this stuff for one main reason: results. That means some sort of playoff success. Period.

Is this enough "hating" for you?

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Old
12-09-2012, 01:03 PM
  #49
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Hahah, the rankings really are a bit of a joke.

Kadri has been downgraded to a 7.5C.
Frattin is undervalued at 7.0C. Should be 7.5C, or 7.0B
Personally, I think that Reilly should be an 8.5B - as he's clearly shown he's bounced back from his injury and hasn't missed a step.

The Bruins ahead of the Leafs is quite laughable.

Anyways, in reality, the Leafs should probably be slotted in at about the 12-15 range

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12-09-2012, 01:03 PM
  #50
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Well I'm excited.

Under Burke we have missed the playoffs 4 times, shown no real signs of improvement, and now have a prospect pool at the cusp of the bottom third of the league. He should get promoted and get a raise.

Its funny how some people on here never learn. We no impact prospects. People used to say Schenn was a cant miss prospect. Then reality sets in, and people realize he's not the stud people expected.

Kadri and Colborne were the guys the last couple years that everyone was saying would be the difference makers. Now that some time has passed, it looks like Colborne may never make the NHL, and if Kadri does, he likely wont be anything special.

But never fear, we have Morgan Reiley. He will be different.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Bottom line, this team is a disaster, and its only going to get worse before it ever gets better.

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