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Old
12-09-2012, 02:29 PM
  #351
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
I agree, the Leafs cannot move that much center depth. The Leafs are not sending much salary back either; which is a pipedream at best.

The deal needs roughly an equal amount of salary going both ways (especially offsetting the pain of a decade long contract). The Leafs could add a future in Blacker with a mid level pick (3rd?). Add Kulemin, a player Canuck fans have an eye on in many proposals. Bozak; a target that serms to be one of the only true known pieces in discussion; then have to add Komisarek.

The Leafs then take Luongo and Raymond; to make the cap situation more even. It also rids Vancouver of the two players brought up in 95% of their proposals on here.

That's about as take it or leave it; as we can get. A pure futures package; especiaaly focussed around one position.... not possible on our end.

Bozak
Komisarek
Kulemin
Blacker
3rd

for

Luongo
Raymond



Alternate:

Bozak
Kulemin
Blacker
Franson (throw in)

for

Luongo
1st
The 1st isn't good for Van. The 2nd one might work but Van won't add the 1st.

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Old
12-09-2012, 02:34 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The 1st isn't good for Van. The 2nd one might work but Van won't add the 1st.
I agree and I would say his second deal would work by Leafs keeping Bozak, but adding Kadri, and Canucks adding Raymond if Leafs would like a replacement for Kulemin. Canucks don't really have space to add 2 roster pieces like Bozak and Kulemin, Canucks roster almost set. Franson does not really make sense to Vancouver either, but with the changes I suggested the deal might work.

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Old
12-09-2012, 02:35 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
No, they would give up essentially nothing (3rd-5th) and gain a large cap hit instead of having to spend actual dollars. It has been explained to death why cap floor hits would have an interest down the road and I care not to explain it again.
This simply does not happen!

Take a good look at Wade Redden. No one would have given NY a 7th round pick!! New York would rather eat the salary then give a team an asset(s) to take him of their hands.

Look at Brian Campbell. Florida traded him for Olesz! Olesz is worse than a mid round pick considering his inflated cap hit.

Look at Komisarek. The Leafs can't just trade him to a cap floor team (like Florida) because those teams would rather overpay for UFA's for a couple years then be stuck with inflated contracts for multiple years.

Now, if you think a team is going to be doing Vancouver any favours and trade for Luongo at market value, you are going to be surprised by the return. Again, I would love to have Luongo on Toronto but only if we get him for cheap.

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Old
12-09-2012, 02:46 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
This simply does not happen!

Take a good look at Wade Redden. No one would have given NY a 7th round pick!! New York would rather eat the salary then give a team an asset(s) to take him of their hands.

Look at Brian Campbell. Florida traded him for Olesz! Olesz is worse than a mid round pick considering his inflated cap hit.

Look at Komisarek. The Leafs can't just trade him to a cap floor team (like Florida) because those teams would rather overpay for UFA's for a couple years then be stuck with inflated contracts for multiple years.

Now, if you think a team is going to be doing Vancouver any favours and trade for Luongo at market value, you are going to be surprised by the return. Again, I would love to have Luongo on Toronto but only if we get him for cheap.
Well said. Vancouver fans in this thread are banking on Toronto's ability to offload Roberto when he starts declining and thus, demanding fair market value. But, IMO, the fact that an independent variable (another team must take Roberto when he starts declining, which could be soon) is the reason why Vancouver fans are stating these outrageous demands, is the exact reason why Mike Gillis won't get anything of value for Luongo.

That's the reality and a number of fans from a bunch of teams have said it. Not just Leafs fans.

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:09 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
This simply does not happen!

Take a good look at Wade Redden. No one would have given NY a 7th round pick!! New York would rather eat the salary then give a team an asset(s) to take him of their hands.

Look at Brian Campbell. Florida traded him for Olesz! Olesz is worse than a mid round pick considering his inflated cap hit.

Look at Komisarek. The Leafs can't just trade him to a cap floor team (like Florida) because those teams would rather overpay for UFA's for a couple years then be stuck with inflated contracts for multiple years.

Now, if you think a team is going to be doing Vancouver any favours and trade for Luongo at market value, you are going to be surprised by the return. Again, I would love to have Luongo on Toronto but only if we get him for cheap.
Except all the guys you've listed don't have cap circumventing contracts. Campbell is still getting paid 7.1m, Redden 6.5m? Komisarek 4.5m.

You'd be trading Luongo during his last few years of his contract where his cap hit is at 5.3m but he's only getting paid 1.6m, 1m, 1m.

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:20 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
This simply does not happen!

Take a good look at Wade Redden. No one would have given NY a 7th round pick!! New York would rather eat the salary then give a team an asset(s) to take him of their hands.

Look at Brian Campbell. Florida traded him for Olesz! Olesz is worse than a mid round pick considering his inflated cap hit.

Look at Komisarek. The Leafs can't just trade him to a cap floor team (like Florida) because those teams would rather overpay for UFA's for a couple years then be stuck with inflated contracts for multiple years.

Now, if you think a team is going to be doing Vancouver any favours and trade for Luongo at market value, you are going to be surprised by the return. Again, I would love to have Luongo on Toronto but only if we get him for cheap.
here comes the "its a great contract its already been explained numerous times"

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:22 PM
  #357
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Keep Bozak, give us a first.

Done.
My offer would than be...

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Ashton + Franson

for

Luongo

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:23 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
My offer would than be...

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Ashton + Franson

for

Luongo
no thanks, we will keep him then.

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:26 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
no thanks, we will keep him then.
In my honest opinion i highly doubt that another team would beat that package. Not saying it is an amazing package but lets face the facts, his contract doesn't raise his value, it decreases it.

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:30 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
My offer would than be...

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Ashton + Franson

for

Luongo
Ill tell you what add Connolly and swap Aston for Blacker? Not sure I do this deal, but I add in a cap dump for you guys so that Blacker can be swapped.

Connolly
Kadri
1st
Blacker
Franson

For

Luongo

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:30 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
My offer would than be...

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Ashton + Franson

for

Luongo
Change Ashton and Franson to Blacker and Frattin/Kulemin and its more realistic


To Vancouver:
1st 2013 top 10 protected
Kadri
Blacker
Frattin/Kulemin

To Toronto:
Luongo
2013 4th
2014 5th

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:30 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by sniper81 View Post
In my honest opinion i highly doubt that another team would beat that package. Not saying it is an amazing package but lets face the facts, his contract doesn't raise his value, it decreases it.
I am not saying whether any team will want to pay more, i just think he is more useful to us by staying with the team if that is what we are getting for Luongo. In an extremely unlikely event that Luongo does becomes a problem sharing time with Schneider, we should trade Cory instead.

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:45 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Ill tell you what add Connolly and swap Aston for Blacker? Not sure I do this deal, but I add in a cap dump for you guys so that Blacker can be swapped.

Connolly
Kadri
1st
Blacker
Franson

For

Luongo
What about you guys adding in Raymond? Just a thought...

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:50 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
My offer would than be...

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Ashton + Franson

for

Luongo
Terrible overpayment by the Leafs

Ashton + Franson would be more than enough

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:50 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
What about you guys adding in Raymond? Just a thought...
Why would we want Connolly? If he is struggling with the leafs when they need a center, what makes you think he can contribute to the Canucks? If we really want him, we can attempt to sign him after this season has concluded.

Stop giving garbage for an elite goalie.

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:50 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Terrible overpayment by the Leafs

Ashton + Franson would be more than enough
Should be enough for Eddie Lack and Raymond?

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:55 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
What about you guys adding in Raymond? Just a thought...
No. To be honest I don't want to really do the deal I suggested anyway. Already have enough agreeing to my previous deal to make it the current consensus.

Bozak
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:59 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
No. To be honest I don't want to really do the deal I suggested anyway. Already have enough agreeing to my previous deal to make it the current consensus.

Bozak
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker
We can sign Bozak when the season ends, Kadri is an interesting player but would most likely not be given an opportunity to play with AV, Joe is a big but soft players that isn't that special. I don't know much about Blacker but most likely he cannot contribute once the season start.

If we trade an elite goalie away, we need elite talent back, if that cannot be done then we are better off keeping him.

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:16 PM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VasDimops View Post
This simply does not happen!

Take a good look at Wade Redden. No one would have given NY a 7th round pick!! New York would rather eat the salary then give a team an asset(s) to take him of their hands.

Look at Brian Campbell. Florida traded him for Olesz! Olesz is worse than a mid round pick considering his inflated cap hit.

Look at Komisarek. The Leafs can't just trade him to a cap floor team (like Florida) because those teams would rather overpay for UFA's for a couple years then be stuck with inflated contracts for multiple years.

Now, if you think a team is going to be doing Vancouver any favours and trade for Luongo at market value, you are going to be surprised by the return. Again, I would love to have Luongo on Toronto but only if we get him for cheap.
Fun fact!

In the last four years of Luongo's contract. He will have been paid less than Campbell was in one. Therefore, a team like Florida, would buy themselves four years of cap space for a 5th. Bonus if Luongo was still a quality goaltender, which contrary to popular belief, is a reasonable assumption. If his contract was so horrendous, the league would not be so adamant in not only ridding them, but punishing the team that signed them.

There is no "Luongo for cheap" right now. Gillis has made that apparent otherwise he'd be traded. We are not fixing your goaltending woes unless we get something worthwhile in doing so. If you have no intention of providing such, well this thread is likely not for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
That's the reality and a number of fans from a bunch of teams have said it. Not just Leafs fans.
Actually, this goes both ways. Many have agreed Luongo is not going to be shipped off for next nothing, including posters from your own fanbase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
My offer would than be...

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Ashton + Franson

for

Luongo
1st - Good value
Kadri - Good prospect, albeit consistency concerns
Ashton - Fringe AHLer; little value
Franson - Absolutely redundant; would not play over anyone in our top six

So it boils down to a first and Kadri. Nope.

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:19 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Why would we want Connolly? If he is struggling with the leafs when they need a center, what makes you think he can contribute to the Canucks? If we really want him, we can attempt to sign him after this season has concluded.

Stop giving garbage for an elite goalie.
Connolly would be a decent filler on the third line, although I would only want to bring him back if we were getting an impact player like Lupul. This all assumes we will have a season of course.

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:21 PM
  #371
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Why would we want Connolly? If he is struggling with the leafs when they need a center, what makes you think he can contribute to the Canucks? If we really want him, we can attempt to sign him after this season has concluded.

Stop giving garbage for an elite goalie.
A Vancouver fan (Numbers) requested him, not I.

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:22 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Connolly would be a decent filler on the third line, although I would only want to bring him back if we were getting an impact player like Lupul. This all assumes we will have a season of course.
Garbage is probably not the right word for Connolly and would probably be a decent third line center for us, but i just don't think we need to trade Luongo for him when we can just wait a few more months to sign him without giving up anything.

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:25 PM
  #373
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Numbers


I would do...

Connolly + Kadri + Blacker + Franson + 1st (top ten protected)

for

Luongo

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:28 PM
  #374
Numbers
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Numbers


I would do...

Connolly + Kadri + Blacker + Franson + 1st (top ten protected)

for

Luongo
Ya like I said I don't think I would do this, but I don't think value is to bad. Any way to sweeten deal a little?

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Old
12-09-2012, 04:41 PM
  #375
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Ya like I said I don't think I would do this, but I don't think value is to bad. Any way to sweeten deal a little?
So you initially were saying...

Bozak
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker

If you took out Bozak and added in Connolly + Franson. Plus you could throw a salary dump our way as well?

Hmmmm

So, essentially it would be....

Connolly
Kadri
Colborne
Blacker
Franson

for

Luongo
+ salary dump

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