HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-13 Colorado Avalanche Prospects Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-04-2012, 06:37 AM
  #476
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,137
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Not really a fair question, but I will answer anyways...atleast out of the D named to camp today.

The guys I would trade Siemens for, considering our prospect stable:

Hamilton
Reinhart
Rielly
Dumba, maybe


I really like guys like Harrington, Ouellet and Sproul but I think Siemens is still well above them in terms of potential.

Pouliot would be in the mix too, but we already have good offensive D prospects.
Sorry, meant it in a "Of the d that were invited, whom would you say are better than Siemens?" type of question. Since you follow these guys the closest here you seemed most qualified to answer that type of question.

How has he looked in comparison to his fellow defenders such as Thrower and Dietz this season, curiously? We haven't had a lot of good news, but not too much in the way of bad news either from Duncan. Getting the impression he's hit a stalemate in his development and may need to jump up to the next level to start progressing again.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
12-04-2012, 09:19 AM
  #477
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,948
vCash: 7658
No surprise. That tournament has lost a lot of its luster for me in recent years anyhow. I migh have the opportunity to go to the World Under 17s in Victoriaville around the same time anyways.

Bender is offline  
Old
12-05-2012, 03:08 PM
  #478
R S
Renegade Stylings
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,619
vCash: 4250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Sorry, meant it in a "Of the d that were invited, whom would you say are better than Siemens?" type of question. Since you follow these guys the closest here you seemed most qualified to answer that type of question.

How has he looked in comparison to his fellow defenders such as Thrower and Dietz this season, curiously? We haven't had a lot of good news, but not too much in the way of bad news either from Duncan. Getting the impression he's hit a stalemate in his development and may need to jump up to the next level to start progressing again.
Thrower has hardly played, between injury and discipline from the team, he's hardly seen any time. He's been very average in the games he has appeared in. Set to return soon from an upper body injury.

Dietz was the team's MVP through the first 15 or so games of the year. Was the best defenceman, was scoring and playing top minutes along with Siemens. Since that time Siemens has really got his feet under him and has been our best defenceman, in my opinion. Really moving his feet and jumping into the rush more lately, which was a big strong point for him in his draft year. He creates big lanes when driving the ice offensively and it's nice to see him doing that a bit more.

R S is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 08:35 PM
  #479
Glasscog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Denver
Country: United States
Posts: 122
vCash: 500
Based on the stat line, it looks like Siemens is killing it tonight. D. Thrower paired back with him? (Regina a bad team this year?)

Glasscog is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:12 PM
  #480
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 4,369
vCash: 50
Omg I've never seen this before, Siemens a -7 to start tonight's game, well Saskatoon won 9-0 and effin Duncan was a positive 7 making his +\- to zero.

Also Regina is a average team who will be a boarderline playoff team, but no way should they be losing 9-0. Off night I must say and theyve had the injury bug so far this year.


Last edited by S E P H: 12-08-2012 at 11:30 PM.
S E P H is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:16 PM
  #481
chet1926
Registered User
 
chet1926's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Country: United States
Posts: 3,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasscog View Post
Based on the stat line, it looks like Siemens is killing it tonight. D. Thrower paired back with him? (Regina a bad team this year?)
Yeah I don't care how bad of a team Regina may or may not be, +7 doesn't happen by accident. Duncan must have been in beast mode.

chet1926 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:26 PM
  #482
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,948
vCash: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Yeah I don't care how bad of a team Regina may or may not be, +7 doesn't happen by accident. Duncan must have been in beast mode.
I haven't seen the games but by keeping tabs on him, it seems that he's been a different player since that Subway series game. Probably got a lot of confidence back from playing very well in that game against some pretty tough competition.

Bender is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 05:52 PM
  #483
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Yeah I don't care how bad of a team Regina may or may not be, +7 doesn't happen by accident. Duncan must have been in beast mode.
The plus/minus stat is almost totally irrelevant.

Huis Clos* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 05:55 PM
  #484
chet1926
Registered User
 
chet1926's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Country: United States
Posts: 3,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hek View Post
The plus/minus stat is almost totally irrelevant.
Would tend to agree when its +1 or 2 or -1 or 2 but when you are +7 for a game it means you were doing lots of things right.

chet1926 is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 05:57 PM
  #485
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Would tend to agree when its +1 or 2 or -1 or 2 but when you are +7 for a game it means you were doing lots of things right.
For one game? That's an outlier. Much more telling when compared to a season against similar players on the team.

Huis Clos* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 08:01 PM
  #486
Nihiliste
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Nihiliste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,417
vCash: 542
Exactly, can't read too much into it. Kind of like Wayne Gagner's 8 point game or whatever number it was

Nihiliste is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 09:01 PM
  #487
R S
Renegade Stylings
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,619
vCash: 4250
He had a good game last night, but I agree that +7 is just one of those things that happens sometimes. Dalton Thrower was back in the lineup and paired with Duncan and they looked just like old times. Team was clicking and also blew out Regina 7-0 today too.

Siemens has been flat out fantastic since just before the Subway Series.

R S is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 11:06 PM
  #488
SuperTheGreat
Swim Instructor
 
SuperTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hek View Post
The plus/minus stat is almost totally irrelevant.
That's what Nick Lidstrom, Raymond Bourque, and Denis Potvin said (Peter Forsberg, too). Enter here the pretty good player of your choice who didn't/doesn't have a good +/-_________________(I know there's lots, and I know there's lots of good avs - past & present- too) but.......

For my $ if the other team can't score when you're on the ice and your team can score when you're on the ice.....over, and over and over and over......you're doing your job. If the situation is reversed, you probably aren't.

SuperTheGreat is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 01:01 AM
  #489
Nihiliste
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Nihiliste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,417
vCash: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTheGreat View Post
That's what Nick Lidstrom, Raymond Bourque, and Denis Potvin said (Peter Forsberg, too). Enter here the pretty good player of your choice who didn't/doesn't have a good +/-_________________(I know there's lots, and I know there's lots of good avs - past & present- too) but.......

For my $ if the other team can't score when you're on the ice and your team can score when you're on the ice.....over, and over and over and over......you're doing your job. If the situation is reversed, you probably aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hek View Post
For one game? That's an outlier. Much more telling when compared to a season against similar players on the team.

As you can see, that's not really what Hek was talking about.

Nihiliste is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 07:41 AM
  #490
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,137
vCash: 239
Can someone tell me what makes this pool better than this pool to the point where the first is the 7th best pool in the league and the last is 28th best pool in the league?

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 08:28 AM
  #491
SuperTheGreat
Swim Instructor
 
SuperTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
As you can see, that's not really what Hek was talking about.
Seems to me that his original post identified the stat, not the line for the specific game, then his 2nd post referenced the game. Either way, I've heard/read plenty who discount +/- and I disagree with that line of thinking. And fwiw, one blown up stat like that is an outlier and nothing for anyone to hang hats upon.

SuperTheGreat is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 09:19 AM
  #492
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,948
vCash: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Can someone tell me what makes this pool better than this pool to the point where the first is the 7th best pool in the league and the last is 28th best pool in the league?
You should know by now that these guys just don't know who a lot of our prospects are. It's ALWAYS been that way. The Avs have churned out NHL Player after NHL player over the years and those guys never got a decent 'HFboard' grade and always flew under the radar. It's just the way it is and basically, since they apparently can't LEARN that our scouting is near the top of the league and always dismiss our prospects, I put ZERO stock in this site's ability to tell me anything about a player's future possibilities. (or other teams' prospects since some of way overhyped)

Bender is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 09:44 AM
  #493
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,137
vCash: 239
I should know, but I continually get frustrated seeing this. The authors post on this forum, they can see our discussions and just shrug it off as homer comments. I'm fully willing to admit another team is better when they are. But Tampa Bay is getting massively overrated and the Avs are massively underrated.

It's just annoying that we're seen as a 3rd-rate franchise with a bunch of promise yet our prospects are supposedly terrible. With Landeskog HFboards voted us top 5 in the 2011 Summer. Without Landeskog we fell this far? Nothing else has really changed.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 10:40 AM
  #494
Nihiliste
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Nihiliste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,417
vCash: 542
Agreed, there's no point reading much into people's thoughts on our prospects or players tbh.

Shattenkirk went from being a very underrated prospect with us to "better than EJ" in a year. Similarly, you can bet that Siemens, had Hamilton not fallen, would be much more hyped if Philly had drafted him.

Or imagine if Elliott and Barrie were Oilers prospects - we would never hear the end about their surefire top pairing future (lol Klefbom) while who really follows them outside of Avs fans right now?

Nihiliste is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 01:47 PM
  #495
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
 
Leaf Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: India
Posts: 70,613
vCash: 500
Btw I just notice Hishon still hasn't played this season, any update on his concussion situation?

__________________
Leaf Rocket is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 02:10 PM
  #496
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,989
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Btw I just notice Hishon still hasn't played this season, any update on his concussion situation?
Not really. It's been 18 months now. I think at this point, there isn't any reason to be optimistic about his future.

I'm not sure it's a concussion issue. It could be a vertebrae issue.

Freudian is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 02:14 PM
  #497
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 4,369
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Not really. It's been 18 months now. I think at this point, there isn't any reason to be optimistic about his future.

I'm not sure it's a concussion issue. It could be a vertebrae issue.
Yeah, one of the latest updates we've got about Hishon, hinted about possible whiplash like Crosby's situation.

S E P H is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 03:02 PM
  #498
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 18,702
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Yeah, one of the latest updates we've got about Hishon, hinted about possible whiplash like Crosby's situation.
It's additionally worrisome that the poster who first mentioned Hishon started new treatments that would keep him out of camp and action for 4 weeks. That was on 9/20. It's 12/10 now.

Foppa2118 is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 09:32 PM
  #499
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTheGreat View Post
Seems to me that his original post identified the stat, not the line for the specific game, then his 2nd post referenced the game. Either way, I've heard/read plenty who discount +/- and I disagree with that line of thinking. And fwiw, one blown up stat like that is an outlier and nothing for anyone to hang hats upon.
It's a team stat applied to an individual. It's almost totally worthless except in very specific instances. The quality of the team has far more impact on plus/minus than individual ability.

Huis Clos* is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 09:45 PM
  #500
Zandar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 384
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Can someone tell me what makes this pool better than this pool to the point where the first is the 7th best pool in the league and the last is 28th best pool in the league?
Because Tampa has the awesomeness that is Vaselineskiiiiy. Ok seriously? They have a lot of HF highly related prospects. Gusev was drafted 202 in 2012 and a 7.0 but Smith is a 6.0. Then they have a ton of late drafted or undrafted prospects who have done really well in the AHL so far that they are rated an auto 7.0 or 7.5. Tampa has a lot of "numbers" type of guys who may even do well in the NHL especially playing with Stamkos, Lecavalier, etc. in the more open East. While the Avs play in the West and draft more for Pro viable prospects. While it would be nice if the Avs ratings fell more inline with Tampa and others who rate a skilled player with a higher number but with a lower letter/likelihood...the ratings for the Avs seem to reflect the under-rated hard working type they have in the system.

Zandar is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.