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Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

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Old
12-09-2012, 05:34 PM
  #151
Mess
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
So you believe whatever Fehr is after is in the best interest of the game?
Fehr's job is to preserve as many player rights and remuneration as he can in a 100% take back attempt by Bettman and the Owners.

We have already witnessed 3 X "Best offer, take it or leave it deals', by Bettman and each time the cool, calm, calculated Fehr didn't flinch and simply waited until Bettman came crawling back with his next "Final best offer", and each time the players have gained in less give backs and the CBA improves in their favour. Bettman hasn't gained anything by his owners lockout as the longer it goes the less the Owners get to take back..

Fehr's endgame for his players is to get the new CBA to be eventually finalized, and be as close to the current expired CBA as he can negotiate. So far he is doing a masterful job doing what he was hired for.

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Last edited by Mess: 12-09-2012 at 05:54 PM.
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12-09-2012, 05:38 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Fehr's job is to preserve as many player rights and remuneration as he can in a 100% take back attempt by Bettman and the Owners.

We have already witnessed 3 X "Best offer, take it or leave it deals', by Bettman and each time the cool, calm, calculated Fehr didn't flinch and simply waited until Bettman came crawling back with his next "Final best offer", and each time the players have gained in less give backs and the CBA improves in their favour. Bettman hasn't gained anything by his owners lockout as the longer it goes the less the Owners get to take back..

Fehr's endgame for his players is to get the new CBA to be eventually finalized, and be as close to the current expired CBA as he can negotiate. So far he is doing an masterful job doing what he was hired for.
In short, Fehr doesn't give a crap about what happens to the league after he's done with his negotiations.

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12-09-2012, 05:54 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
We have already witnessed 3 X "Best offer, take it or leave it deals', by Bettman and each time the cool, calm, calculated Fehr didn't flinch and simply waited until Bettman came crawling back with his next "Final best offer", and each time the players have gained in less give backs and the CBA improves in their favour. Bettman hasn't gained anything by his owners lockout as the longer it goes the less the Owners get to take back..
I guess that's what this whole thing comes down to. High stakes poker game, where each side has to call bluff or fold.

Fehr has done a good job so far, weather as a fan I like it or not.

Fehr basically is calling nhl's bluff
in terms of the hill in which they will die on, being 5 year contract limit and 5% variance.

For the first time, I don't think nhl is bluffing. Time will tell I guess.

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12-09-2012, 06:13 PM
  #154
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Not sure if its been posted, but tempting.

This is ridiculous. A deal needs to get done.

http://vimeo.com/55149830

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12-09-2012, 06:21 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
In short, Fehr doesn't give a crap about what happens to the league after he's done with his negotiations.
I think you're confusing Fehr and the players not giving a crap how much money billionaire owners are putting into their own personal bank accounts at their own expense, which is all coming from the fans originally.

Fans pay to see their players play and don't give a crap either if an Owner is lining his pockets once they hand their money over.. The game isn't effected by this CBA on the way the money is being split up..

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12-09-2012, 06:26 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
I guess that's what this whole thing comes down to. High stakes poker game, where each side has to call bluff or fold.

Fehr has done a good job so far, weather as a fan I like it or not.

Fehr basically is calling nhl's bluff
in terms of the hill in which they will die on, being 5 year contract limit and 5% variance.

For the first time, I don't think nhl is bluffing. Time will tell I guess.
Fehr is playing chicken with the Owners, knowing full well some Owners realize they're damaging their own markets and livelihood the longer their self inflicted lockout goes, and a lost season for some markets might mean franchise relocation and permanent unrecoverable revenue loss, as fan apathy is their biggest fear, when trying to fill buildings after this ends.

So agreed Fehr is counting on the Owners continuing to keep coming back to the table and deciding to take back less in their demands with each passing negotiation (a pattern that we have all seen has been occurring). This in Owners hopes of ending their lockout, and Fehr not calling their bluff that they will not risk cancelling the season and suffer the consequences of their own greed long term in their market.

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12-09-2012, 06:26 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I think you're confusing Fehr and the players not giving a crap how much money billionaire owners are putting into their own personal bank accounts at their own expense, which is all coming from the fans originally.

Fans pay to see their players play and don't give a crap either if an Owner is lining his pockets once they hand their money over.. The game isn't effected by this CBA on the way the money is being split up..
You can't seriously think most owners are in it for the money when over half of the teams are not making any. The only people who are guaranteed to make money are the employees (ie: players).

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12-09-2012, 07:10 PM
  #158
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one day one side will accept the other sides offer

both sides seem to have big egos and want their proposal to be the one agreed on

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12-09-2012, 07:14 PM
  #159
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I don't see any benefit whatsoever when the Islanders come rolling in with our hometown boy scoring a hatty against us with a portion of his salary paid for by us, only to log onto hfboards and have all 29 fanbases tell us how stupid Leafs fans are.

I'd rather go Russian Billionaire in the BPL on those second rate franchises, poach all their star talent and watch the Leafs crush those teams night in and night out and run out of space for championship banners in the rafters.

Parity flat out sucks.
That sounds nice.

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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
You can't seriously think most owners are in it for the money when over half of the teams are not making any. The only people who are guaranteed to make money are the employees (ie: players).
If the owners didn't lock out the players over money, then why did they?

It is true the owners are not looking to get rich off owning an NHL franchise. And there was a time when a franchise was just an expensive toy. Now they aparently need to all make a profit.

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12-09-2012, 07:22 PM
  #160
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So Duchene signed in the Swiss league for 22 days. Anyone else think thats an odd amount of time to sign for espeically over Christmas?

Maybe just maybe he wants a little extra time to get to nhl game shape.....

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12-09-2012, 07:30 PM
  #161
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So Duchene signed in the Swiss league for 22 days. Anyone else think thats an odd amount of time to sign for espeically over Christmas?

Maybe just maybe he wants a little extra time to get to nhl game shape.....
Wouldn't that give him a few days to get back to NA before the "unofficial" final deadline?

Bettman said 48 games min. So that was mid January in 94-95.

That's all I can think of.

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12-09-2012, 07:32 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Wouldn't that give him a few days to get back to NA before the "unofficial" final deadline?

Bettman sad 48 games min. So that was mid January in 94-95.

That's all I can think of.
Im wondering if he knows the lockout is going to end soon and wants a couple extra weeks of games to hit the ice "running"

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12-09-2012, 07:36 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If the owners didn't lock out the players over money, then why did they?

It is true the owners are not looking to get rich off owning an NHL franchise. And there was a time when a franchise was just an expensive toy. Now they aparently need to all make a profit.
I guess only players are allowed to think about all profits? There was a time when players played for not much more than the average wage of the general population (who are still getting screwed on their pensions). What's your point? Times have changed.

Healthy teams --> healthy and competitive league. Who knows, with more owner share, and hence getting more money via revenue sharing, maybe even teams like the Islanders will be able to spend to the cap one day.

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12-09-2012, 07:44 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
I guess only players are allowed to think about all profits? There was a time when players played for not much more than the average wage of the general population. What's your point? Times have changed.

Healthy teams --> healthy and competitive league. Who knows, with more owner share, and hence getting more money via revenue sharing, maybe even teams like the Islanders will be able to spend to the cap one day.
Ya that's pretty much all I was saying.

I have no problem with revenue sharing but when teams are losing 30M+ per season, it is a bit too much to be propping up. Maybe the new lease deal with Phoenix will lower the overall losses. A better US TV deal that all US teams split would be a big bonus.

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12-09-2012, 07:46 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Im wondering if he knows the lockout is going to end soon and wants a couple extra weeks of games to hit the ice "running"
Well the lockout has to either end by mid January or the season is done. So maybe someone did mention that maybe he should go get in shape for January.

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12-09-2012, 07:52 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
I guess only players are allowed to think about all profits? There was a time when players played for not much more than the average wage of the general population (who are still getting screwed on their pensions). What's your point? Times have changed.

Healthy teams --> healthy and competitive league. Who knows, with more owner share, and hence getting more money via revenue sharing, maybe even teams like the Islanders will be able to spend to the cap one day.
Welcome to the NHLPA and Fehr's battle and goals of this new CBA.

Quote:
NHLPA’s call for increased revenue sharing - Wednesday, Nov. 28, 2012.

It drives home one of the key points NHL Players’ Association executive Donald Fehr and his negotiators have made throughout the lockout – the path to financial health for all 30 teams is through increased revenue sharing. It is not something the wealthy teams are interested in, although the NHL reportedly is close to an agreement with the union on a revenue-sharing plan that would see around $230-million redistributed annually, an increase of about 53 per cent from the $150-million under the former collective agreement.

However, that represents only about 7 per cent of the $3.3-billion the NHL brought in during the 2011-12 season. Major League Baseball, which found prosperity with greater revenue sharing thanks to the prodding of Fehr when he was head of that sport’s union, sees its rich teams put 31 per cent of their local revenue into a fund shared by the poorer relations.

Since baseball also has sharp differences in revenue between financial powerhouses like the New York Yankees and basket cases like the Florida Marlins, it only makes sense that sharing would work for the NHL as well. But, in addition to refusing to consider compromises on contract issues and splitting revenue with the players, the most influential owners in the NHL don’t want to hear about more revenue sharing either.

Full Story: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle5764143/
Good thing Fehr gives a crap about what happens to the league after the lockout, and fought and won a 53% increase in revenue sharing to attempt to get 30 healthy teams.

I hope you didn't believe this is what Bettman and Owners lockout is all about.

Fehr is like Robin Hood, he fights for his players and protects their 50% share of HRR and then negotiates increase revenue sharing for the poorer small market NHL teams by robbing from the rich owners and giving to the poor all within the Owners 50% share of HRR as opposed to the players being responsible to cover those costs.


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12-09-2012, 08:40 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
So Duchene signed in the Swiss league for 22 days. Anyone else think thats an odd amount of time to sign for espeically over Christmas?

Maybe just maybe he wants a little extra time to get to nhl game shape.....
Well, Fehr gave an interview at the CAW event in Toronto yesterday and said both sides had a deal in principle for all major areas except the traction one (not sure what traction is btw) and that was their last hurdle to get over before an offical deal was reached.

IMO I think both sides are extremely close to getting er' done so it could make sense Duchene would go play overseas for three weeks. The thing that throws me off though is that now Crosby is contemplating signing a contract overseas....

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12-09-2012, 08:47 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
So you believe that having a league where the majority of the games are lopsided, and only a handful of games are actually worth watching any given week is the way to go? I don't doubt it'd be good for the Leafs' fanbase for a while, but for the sport? Not so much.
Did parity on the ice result in parity in revenues? It didn't seem like this new world order resulted in healthier franchises at all.

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12-09-2012, 08:57 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Fehr is playing chicken with the Owners, knowing full well some Owners realize they're damaging their own markets and livelihood the longer their self inflicted lockout goes, and a lost season for some markets might mean franchise relocation and permanent unrecoverable revenue loss, as fan apathy is their biggest fear, when trying to fill buildings after this ends.

So agreed Fehr is counting on the Owners continuing to keep coming back to the table and deciding to take back less in their demands with each passing negotiation (a pattern that we have all seen has been occurring). This in Owners hopes of ending their lockout, and Fehr not calling their bluff that they will not risk cancelling the season and suffer the consequences of their own greed long term in their market.
Cool story bro but i ain't buying what your selling.

Care to take a guess at home many millions of dollars in players salaries have been flushed down the toilet under Fehr's leadership? Both Goodenough & Fehr have been absolute failures as PA heads.

Also the NHL has already cancelled a season they are not bluffing as you say nor are they giving up more and more to the PA as you claim. There has been movement from both sides and Fehr told the players last Friday he can get them more. Good luck to Fehr and the PA with that because the owners are now even more pissed off and dug in deeper.

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12-09-2012, 09:22 PM
  #170
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In short, Fehr doesn't give a crap about what happens to the league after he's done with his negotiations.
So if you were him, you'd have taken the first deal they offered?

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12-09-2012, 09:26 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Fehr is playing chicken with the Owners, knowing full well some Owners realize they're damaging their own markets and livelihood the longer their self inflicted lockout goes, and a lost season for some markets might mean franchise relocation and permanent unrecoverable revenue loss, as fan apathy is their biggest fear, when trying to fill buildings after this ends.

So agreed Fehr is counting on the Owners continuing to keep coming back to the table and deciding to take back less in their demands with each passing negotiation (a pattern that we have all seen has been occurring). This in Owners hopes of ending their lockout, and Fehr not calling their bluff that they will not risk cancelling the season and suffer the consequences of their own greed long term in their market.
You're joking right?

Half of the teams in the league are losing LESS money this year than they did a year ago, when we had hockey?

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12-09-2012, 09:37 PM
  #172
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You're joking right?

Half of the teams in the league are losing LESS money this year than they did a year ago, when we had hockey?
What about teams with barely no fan bases that don't quite care enough like Canadians do with hockey? Thats damaging their market.

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12-09-2012, 09:43 PM
  #173
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You're joking right?

Half of the teams in the league are losing LESS money this year than they did a year ago, when we had hockey?
Ya and not only that but Fehr will never ever recoup the millions and millions of dollars in lost PA salaries out of a new CBA, which is what Mess is basicly suggesting Fehr is doing.

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12-09-2012, 10:31 PM
  #174
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Dallas and New Jersey are north of 125% in debt value and an additional 14 teams lose money yet the owners are out of touch with capping contract length, limiting UFA status and wanting more of the revenue.

Hell I didn't even count the Penguins there because with the new arena intact they will be in black once a season starts.

Revenue sharing? Eliminating the Oilers as a possibility there are five teams that have enough profit to warrant contributing to the losing franchises that number 16. Phoenix alone lost nearly 25 so maybe if just take all of the Canucks profit and trim off the top of Detroits we can offset that. That leaves the big old 3 to cover the rest of the NHL.

Let the fans of the few foot the bills of the many. Sure, why not?

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12-09-2012, 10:32 PM
  #175
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Toronto maple leafs worth $1 bil.
why?
is it the NHL, the league they play in
is it the fans they have.
or is the PLAYERS that play in the NHL.

if they took out all 750 players, that play in the NHL. replaced them with there ahl teams.
what would the leafs and the nhl be worth now.

its like coke cola, change the product, taste, nobody buys coke , company is worth less.
change ownership, coke stays the same.
so, i think its the product( players) that make the leafs worth $1 bil.
that's why the owners did not bring in there ahl players in to play in the NHL.
NHL needs the players not the owners. there are millions of owners out there that would love to own an NHL team, but only 700 NHL caliber players in the world.

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