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The Luongo Thread - "Make it stop, make it stop!"

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Old
12-08-2012, 04:17 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Paajarvi has 2 goals in 20 AHL games on an offensive juggernaut. Anyone still want to trade Luongo for this guy?
He was never mentioned as the main piece. And I would still like this guy.

Im sticking to that. Ive watched him play tons and it does seem impossible for this guy not to pick it up.

It is shocking to see these low numbers but i'd still take the risk by having him as an extra piece in a package coming back.

The only thing i can think of is that they have a pretty stacked team and that maybe hes not getting prime playing minutes. I have no idea though. But I am still confident he'll be a decent nhl player who can now be had for cheap.

I should tune into the next couple baron's games. Ive yet to watch him this year

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12-08-2012, 06:24 PM
  #77
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Not necessarily Canucks related, but could have an effect on goalie trade:

- Eddie Lack is getting an MRI today cause of his troublesome lower body injury (thought to be hip flexor)
EDIT: Also, Gilman on team 1040 today. Didn't hear interview, but he apparently said "Lack hasn't been good".

- Schneider has been anointed the new President of Switzerland:

‏@BradZiemer
Quote:
Cory Schneider turns aside 45 of 46 shots and Ambri-Piotta beats Henrik Zetterberg & EV Zug 4-1 in Swiss League action today. #Canucks
Quote:
In past two games, on consecutive days, Schneider has stopped 87 of 89 shots. #Canucks
Apparently the team does NOT play defense.


Last edited by SunshineRays: 12-08-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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12-08-2012, 06:45 PM
  #78
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That was a good one, man!
Occasionally we need to step back and find something we can all agree on.

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12-08-2012, 07:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Not necessarily Canucks related, but could have an effect on goalie trade:

- Eddie Lack is getting an MRI today cause of his troublesome lower body injury (thought to be hip flexor)

- Schneider has been anointed the new President of Switzerland:

‏@BradZiemer


Apparently the team does NOT play defense.
But Schneider is unproven and just a lowly backup.

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12-08-2012, 09:20 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
The Edmonton Oilers sent their team to the AHL and by the end of the weekend they could be out of the top 8. Maybe they think there is a draft lottery in the AHL?
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Originally Posted by blendini View Post
That was a good one, man!
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Occasionally we need to step back and find something we can all agree on.
Jeebus....have a little sympathy for a franchise - even if a rival - when their down man.
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nah, let them stay in the celler for a bit longer; haven't forgot some of the stunts "Slats" used to pull back in the day (eg., him rattling add the cup rings on his hands as the Canuck players came out on the ice from the locker; Oilers running up the score on the Canucks, etc.,). Then were was the infamous retort by Slats after Messier have a tomahawk chop with his stick to the head of Gradin: "but it was only a one hander!".

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12-08-2012, 09:55 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
But Schneider is unproven and just a lowly backup.

Say what?

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12-08-2012, 11:31 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Not necessarily Canucks related, but could have an effect on goalie trade:

- Eddie Lack is getting an MRI today cause of his troublesome lower body injury (thought to be hip flexor)
EDIT: Also, Gilman on team 1040 today. Didn't hear interview, but he apparently said "Lack hasn't been good".

- Schneider has been anointed the new President of Switzerland:

‏@BradZiemer


Apparently the team does NOT play defense.
I wish I could see some Schneider highlights. Hes so awesome. Luongo should go join a team that Schneider plays a lot. Maybe they can battle it out for last place. Warmup for Lu if and when he joins the Leafs. (jk, Lu will totes get them in the playoffs)

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12-09-2012, 05:35 AM
  #83
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Ya, found Gilman interview: http://www.teamradio.ca/podcast/spor...way_Honda~.mp3

"To be very candid with you some of our guys have not played, of late, as well as we would have liked. Really our goaltending has not been good, Eddie Lack hasn't been great". He said it twice in this interview for good measure.

To me, it means Lack has zero chance of playing on the Canucks this yr if a goalie is traded. Even if he turns it around, I doubt they'd be happy with his inconsistency and would not feel confortable with him in a shortened season.

Also, Canucks prospects like Kassian/Schroeder/Connauton better turn their season around ASAP. Gillis has a major asset in play (goalie) and he could use it to replace some of their spots on the roster.

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12-09-2012, 05:53 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Ya, found Gilman interview: http://www.teamradio.ca/podcast/spor...way_Honda~.mp3

"To be very candid with you some of our guys have not played, of late, as well as we would have liked. Really our goaltending has not been good, Eddie Lack hasn't been great". He said it twice in this interview for good measure.

To me, it means Lack has zero chance of playing on the Canucks this yr if a goalie is traded. Even if he turns it around, I doubt they'd be happy with his inconsistency and would not feel confortable with him in a shortened season.

Also, Canucks prospects like Kassian/Schroeder/Connauton better turn their season around ASAP. Gillis has a major asset in play (goalie) and he could use it to replace some of their spots on the roster.
Wow ill listen to that when I wake up. But its true, they all need to up their game and all their spots on the nhl team will keep getting replaced with better talent. Though i think kassian is safer because the guy can play anywhere until he figures it out.

Maybe this injury explains lacks play moreso, im sure that interview was before they really knew he was suffering to the point of an actual injury. I definitely lost hope in him being our backup this year though, still believe hes a great prospect though. This year just isn't his year and most likely due to injury.

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12-09-2012, 05:56 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
I wish I could see some Schneider highlights. Hes so awesome. Luongo should go join a team that Schneider plays a lot. Maybe they can battle it out for last place. Warmup for Lu if and when he joins the Leafs. (jk, Lu will totes get them in the playoffs)
I watched that youtube clip on the swiss teams website of all his saves a few times yesterday and it made me miss hockey so much

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Old
12-09-2012, 06:58 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Schneider retained less value on the open market, having only played one season as a backup a year prior. While Gillis may have received offers it is not unfathomable to believe they were significantly less than his expectations for Schneider, thus a trade at that juncture would be less profitable than to wait. Likewise, we had just challenged for the cup and one could reasonable assume our chance of repeating were highly probable, allowing Gillis leeway to maximize Schneider's value.

Perhaps, although personally I believe this perspective a bit too black and white myself. If Luongo brought us Lupul+, the only thing preventing that from being a solid trade is Lupul regressing, otherwise both teams benefit.


Both teams benefiting is not the barometer between a win/loss, asset value is. This is the point that is being missed here. For instance, what helps more? Lupul or a top5 draft pick? The pick isn't going to help the team win, but Lupul will. So the natural answer is Lupul -> But that doesn't mean Lupul brings more _value_ back in the deal. That is the crux of the argument. Asset value matters more than supplementary pieces.


This is black and white for a reason. It is an ideology that has carried weight amongst many GMs over many years of practice. They the know the power of _quality_ in an asset vs. quantity, or even the short-term benefits. Quality trumps all, as that quality is more likely to stay within the organization longer while other pieces fade out.

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12-09-2012, 07:30 AM
  #87
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None of these developements suggest trading Luongo is a good idea. I'm glad that Schnieder is playing well on Ambri-Piotta but that's not the same as NHL duty.

Lack is having a rough time, right now, but wasn't really expected to be ready to back up on the Canucks, was he?

If there is still a season, it will be abbreviated. There will only be a brief preseason. Already there are changes in the Canucks situation. The lockout lasted until Kesler is healthier. The team's goaltending situation will be clarified in time. Unless the deal is already fleshed out there doesn't seem to be enough time to do a move. Who will back-up, some cast-off from the trading partner?

I think the Canucks might be thinking of this as a mulligan for last season's playoffs. A shortened season means less of a step-up going into the playoffs. It will be intense from the start as teams chase the spots. Canucks should make it in with the current (same, almost) roster. Luongo will be useful in this, if only for insurance.

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12-09-2012, 11:15 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Both teams benefiting is not the barometer between a win/loss, asset value is. This is the point that is being missed here. For instance, what helps more? Lupul or a top5 draft pick? The pick isn't going to help the team win, but Lupul will. So the natural answer is Lupul -> But that doesn't mean Lupul brings more _value_ back in the deal. That is the crux of the argument. Asset value matters more than supplementary pieces.


This is black and white for a reason. It is an ideology that has carried weight amongst many GMs over many years of practice. They the know the power of _quality_ in an asset vs. quantity, or even the short-term benefits. Quality trumps all, as that quality is more likely to stay within the organization longer while other pieces fade out.
Except teams are constantly willing to 'lose' trades in terms of value to address team needs. We see 1st rd picks dealt for Paul Gaustads at every trade deadline.

Fans are always dumbfounded by how much teams overpay at the trade deadline for marginal talents. Thats because there is more to this formula than strictly winning a deal based on asset value. Winning hockey games...

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12-09-2012, 11:26 AM
  #89
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Just a quick question here guys.

Do you think the main purpose of the Luongo trade is to acquire the necessary pieces for another Cup push, or to stock up for the future?

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12-09-2012, 04:46 PM
  #90
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Just a quick question here guys.

Do you think the main purpose of the Luongo trade is to acquire the necessary pieces for another Cup push, or to stock up for the future?
I'd say whichever nets us the better return. Personally, I would prefer to push for another cup run, thus my interest in Lupul, and to a lesser degree, Kulemin.

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12-09-2012, 04:52 PM
  #91
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I'd rather go real young and pick up young prospects capable of playing now or real soon which helps both in building for the future AND now. Why i say now is that in order to win, it really helps to have guys on cheap contracts and only way to get skilled guys on cheap contracts is to get them before they bloom.

The way boston had Seguin as depth in their run. Now hes their top player.

I think acquiring young players is a way to win now

Especially in a cap world

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Old
12-09-2012, 05:51 PM
  #92
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Just a quick question here guys.

Do you think the main purpose of the Luongo trade is to acquire the necessary pieces for another Cup push, or to stock up for the future?
If you trade Luongo you aren't going for the cup any more. The rebuild is on, at that point. Losing Salo and Luongo in the same offseason cannot be viewed as stacking for a run.

If it all shakes out that Luongo has to go, you might as well package him up and accept kids and picks because the opportunity to get younger quickly is rare. I don't think Gillis is ready to start a major refit, but the team has no pressing needs to speak of, this might be the time to strike. I tend to prefer the young roster player rather than the high ceiling prospect. Edmonton has a ton. I hope to avoid picks simply because Gillis was very careful at the draft and still got a Hodgson. It's just too risky.

I'd pack up Edler and Malhotra (I defend my choice of Malhotra. He has a big cap hit and one eye. Sorry, but that kind of choice has to be made when you claim to be a contender for the Cup) along with Luongo and try to get a young player back and maybe some picks. I would be using the picks at the draft for trades to move up only after exhausting other avenues.

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12-09-2012, 06:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by 50MissionCap View Post
Just a quick question here guys.

Do you think the main purpose of the Luongo trade is to acquire the necessary pieces for another Cup push, or to stock up for the future?
A bit of both hopefully. Any cap space gained could be used to pick up some depth.

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12-09-2012, 06:30 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
If you trade Luongo you aren't going for the cup any more. The rebuild is on, at that point. Losing Salo and Luongo in the same offseason cannot be viewed as stacking for a run.

If it all shakes out that Luongo has to go, you might as well package him up and accept kids and picks because the opportunity to get younger quickly is rare. I don't think Gillis is ready to start a major refit, but the team has no pressing needs to speak of, this might be the time to strike. I tend to prefer the young roster player rather than the high ceiling prospect. Edmonton has a ton. I hope to avoid picks simply because Gillis was very careful at the draft and still got a Hodgson. It's just too risky.

I'd pack up Edler and Malhotra (I defend my choice of Malhotra. He has a big cap hit and one eye. Sorry, but that kind of choice has to be made when you claim to be a contender for the Cup) along with Luongo and try to get a young player back and maybe some picks. I would be using the picks at the draft for trades to move up only after exhausting other avenues.
I agree with elements of your sentiment just not the entirety.

Losing Salo means nothing since gained Garrison. We picked up youth and a player would should replace Salo.

Losing Luongo means gaining Schneider (fulltime). Trading Luongo and running with a mediocre goalie would signal a rebuild but Schneider isn't mediocre. The net effect will be felt at backup (replacing Schneider with someone worse than Schneider).

I do agree to some extent it signals an attempt to get younger though, retune rather than rebuild. Getting younger without getting worse should be the immediate aim.

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12-09-2012, 06:31 PM
  #95
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If you trade Luongo you aren't going for the cup any more. The rebuild is on, at that point. Losing Salo and Luongo in the same offseason cannot be viewed as stacking for a run.
Holy crap, seriously? Sorry to repeat myself, but it's time to let SeniorNelson do the posting.

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12-09-2012, 06:40 PM
  #96
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I'd rather go real young and pick up young prospects capable of playing now or real soon which helps both in building for the future AND now. Why i say now is that in order to win, it really helps to have guys on cheap contracts and only way to get skilled guys on cheap contracts is to get them before they bloom.

The way boston had Seguin as depth in their run. Now hes their top player.

I think acquiring young players is a way to win now

Especially in a cap world
but seguin was a 2nd overall pick and a can't miss future star. no one like that is going to be made available for luongo. even bjugstad or whomever else we're all drooling over isn't likely to develop as quickly as seguin did. we're not talking about help two years down the road, we're probably talking about three-to-five years, if ever.

not to say going young is the wrong way to go, but the trade off is that going young means we're almost certainly not adding anything of immediate value to the present team. are we willing to waste the sedins' last elite years in hope of a brighter future? i can see both sides, but that's the question.

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12-09-2012, 06:51 PM
  #97
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If you trade Luongo you aren't going for the cup any more. The rebuild is on, at that point. Losing Salo and Luongo in the same offseason cannot be viewed as stacking for a run.

If it all shakes out that Luongo has to go, you might as well package him up and accept kids and picks because the opportunity to get younger quickly is rare. I don't think Gillis is ready to start a major refit, but the team has no pressing needs to speak of, this might be the time to strike. I tend to prefer the young roster player rather than the high ceiling prospect. Edmonton has a ton. I hope to avoid picks simply because Gillis was very careful at the draft and still got a Hodgson. It's just too risky.

I'd pack up Edler and Malhotra (I defend my choice of Malhotra. He has a big cap hit and one eye. Sorry, but that kind of choice has to be made when you claim to be a contender for the Cup) along with Luongo and try to get a young player back and maybe some picks. I would be using the picks at the draft for trades to move up only after exhausting other avenues.
Rebuild because Luongo and Salo are traded

And even better. Malhotra has a big cap hit.

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12-09-2012, 07:14 PM
  #98
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but seguin was a 2nd overall pick and a can't miss future star. no one like that is going to be made available for luongo. even bjugstad or whomever else we're all drooling over isn't likely to develop as quickly as seguin did. we're not talking about help two years down the road, we're probably talking about three-to-five years, if ever.

not to say going young is the wrong way to go, but the trade off is that going young means we're almost certainly not adding anything of immediate value to the present team. are we willing to waste the sedins' last elite years in hope of a brighter future? i can see both sides, but that's the question.
Out of all the young players we could get, someone like Kadri is probably the closest but also comes with a ton of defensive question marks. On the safer side, I could see someone like Drew Shore being ready this year or next year but he would be a pretty minor player at that time (3rd or 4th liner). Guys like Bjugstad, Petrovic, Colborne, etc. are still at least 2-3, if not 4 or 5 years out.

So yeah, not a whole lot of prospects out there that we could get that are ready to meaningfully contribute in the next 2 years.

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12-09-2012, 07:23 PM
  #99
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Out of all the young players we could get, someone like Kadri is probably the closest but also comes with a ton of defensive question marks. On the safer side, I could see someone like Drew Shore being ready this year or next year but he would be a pretty minor player at that time (3rd or 4th liner). Guys like Bjugstad, Petrovic, Colborne, etc. are still at least 2-3, if not 4 or 5 years out.

So yeah, not a whole lot of prospects out there that we could get that are ready to meaningfully contribute in the next 2 years.
Ideally the season is whiped out, they come to an agreement in April and we deal Luongo to Toronto for a package that includes their 1st round pick which, in the draft lottery, ends up being a top 5 pick. One of McKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Monahan or Barkov would be amazing.

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12-09-2012, 07:36 PM
  #100
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Holy crap, seriously? Sorry to repeat myself, but it's time to let SeniorNelson do the posting.


good one. I was trying to think up a decent response but thats perfect.

Your comment of If you trade Luongo you aren't going for the cup any more. is laughable. And I loved Salo, but he has maybe two more seasons in him. A straight exchange of Garrison for Salo is a big long term win for the Canucks. Is Schneider going to be a flash in the pan, or the cornerstone of the Canucks franchise like Luo was for 5 years ... and schneids could be here for 12 or 13 years.

The Canucks should covet a strong top 6 forward for Luo, and being willing to balance out the deal with whatever else is needed. We have at least 10 borderline or better top 6 players (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Booth, Raymond, Higgens, Hansen, kassian, Lapeirre) with 3 or 4 nearly there (Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce and Prab Rai).

{the Prab Rai was to see if you are actually reading the post}

I would love to see a Maholtra (and/or Raymond) Luongo 1st package for a legit 1st line player and a strong prospect and a 2nd and a 3rd.

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