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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XXI-Maybe a Banner Year

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Old
12-09-2012, 08:20 PM
  #251
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Lord knows I know how to look foolish, but if you think I'm the one looking like a fool in this particular conversation at the moment, you have another think coming.

Monticello would be entitled to more respect than you're giving him even if his take weren't a legitimate mainstream view about one of the serious risks involved in going longterm with Josh Hamilton. If you want to buck that viewpoint AND insult someone who holds it, you're going to have to come to the party with less contempt and more valid arguments.


Last edited by TP: 12-09-2012 at 08:41 PM. Reason: mod
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12-09-2012, 08:43 PM
  #252
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I'd explain.....but you'd just ignore it.

Not surprised you'd defend someone being condescending and callous.

Anyone that reads through this will see what my issue was.

Have a nice day.

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12-09-2012, 08:53 PM
  #253
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I know what you're trying to say in principle, but the fact is that you're doing it very badly. If you didn't want to make the effort to defend your statement, then you needed to make your argument clearer at the outset, or just don't bother. I'm not responsible for your lack of communications skills.

If all you're going to do with Monticello's statement about Hamilton's character is to respond with tepid contempt, feel free not to waste all of our time. There's some legitimate rebuttals to what he's saying, the fact that you chose to use absolutely none of them serves to validate his argument flaws and all.

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12-09-2012, 09:06 PM
  #254
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Have a nice day.

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Old
12-09-2012, 09:22 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Also missing the point. Last time you did you asked me to explain it. I did.

You ignored it cause it made you look foolish.

Let us skip to that point now.
You have yet to enlighten me. I'm under the impression the debate is over whether or not josh hamiltons heroin addiction should be factored into the red six signing him. I am on the "it should be" side of things, while not only are you on the "it shouldn't be" side you are also looking down upon those who don't agree with you.

I don't have a problem attacking josh hamiltons character. The fact that he is currently addicted to heroin, although not using heroin currently is my justification. I don't care if he's 10 years clean, he will always be an addict. I'm just saying let some one else roll the dice.

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12-09-2012, 09:46 PM
  #256
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Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Rays, #Royals close on major trade.

fack

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Rays will send James Shields and Wade Davis to #Royals for Wil Myers and other prospects.

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit

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12-09-2012, 09:48 PM
  #257
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Yup. James Shields and Wade Davis to KC for Will Myers and other KC prospects.

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12-09-2012, 09:52 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Rays, #Royals close on major trade.

fack

Seems like shields for Myers is a go. If Lester would be traded there might be more of a return if he has a strong first half. Pete abraham on toucher and rich stated that in regards to Ellsbury so I assume the principle applies to Lester as well. Maybe shields goes for Myers now, and in July, Lester goes for Trevor bauer or Gerrit cole.

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12-09-2012, 09:55 PM
  #259
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friedman is one of the best.

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12-09-2012, 09:57 PM
  #260
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KC got hosed.

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12-09-2012, 10:05 PM
  #261
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Depends what the other prospects are.

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12-09-2012, 10:08 PM
  #262
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they gave up six years of myers' bat for maybe just two of shields' arm.

james shields is a good player. he's certainly not one of the best pitchers in baseball.

moore has a really, really bad habit of trading guys away and not getting their full value.

without looking it up, who did he get for zack greinke?

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12-09-2012, 10:12 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post

moore has a really, really bad habit of trading guys away and not getting their full value.
He's in panic mode since his job is on the line. We could and should have capitalized and got Myers. Ben probably didn't have the guts to trade Lester.

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12-09-2012, 10:15 PM
  #264
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the rays gave more value than lester and were in a better position to give talent up.

don't let the sniping at moore confuse you. shields and davis are good players.

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12-09-2012, 10:27 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
the rays gave more value than lester and were in a better position to give talent up.

don't let the sniping at moore confuse you. shields and davis are good players.
Lester is a better pitcher than Shields...or at least as good as. He's doing his thing in Fenway park as a lefty. Look at Shields home/road splits and come back to me again.

Davis got some value, but his best year came out of the pen. We could have given up something else along with Lester. While I agree the Rays were in a better position to trade pitching, we could have done so as well. With Lester and Ells on the team, the Sox better stop calling for a bridge year. Keeping your best assets doesn't fit with that approach.

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12-09-2012, 10:36 PM
  #266
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shields is a better pitcher than lester.

davis is better than what the red sox could have comfortably thrown out.

then again, the rays are still set in their rotation with like, six good players, even after losing shields.

the red sox were not in a position to give up lester.

i would have done it. but i can see why the royals stuck with the rays.

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12-09-2012, 10:48 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
shields is a better pitcher than lester.

davis is better than what the red sox could have comfortably thrown out.

the red sox were not in a position to give up lester.
1. no chance. Don't let 2012 fool you. Adjusted ERA Lester: best 144, average 119 / Shields best 134, average 107...and when in doubt: lefty > righty

2. Davis is a RP. Of course we could have easily given up something similar without killing the team

3. Why were we not in that position? So you expect us to contend in 2013? Otherwise it makes zero sense to hold onto our best (tradeable) asset

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12-09-2012, 11:08 PM
  #268
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Should be interesting to see what Meyers does.

Gotta think the Salty for Floyd is still in play, no?

Unless they think Webster and De La Rosa would be making a pitch for a role on the club?

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12-09-2012, 11:35 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
they gave up six years of myers' bat for maybe just two of shields' arm.

james shields is a good player. he's certainly not one of the best pitchers in baseball.

moore has a really, really bad habit of trading guys away and not getting their full value.

without looking it up, who did he get for zack greinke?
He got Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi (in this trade, ironically enough), Jeremy Jeffress, and Lorenzo Cain in the Greinke trade. All were pretty big prospects. Jeffress more or less fizzled and is a reliever with the Jays now, but the other 3 still have opportunities of making a significant impact on a team.

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12-09-2012, 11:37 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
they gave up six years of myers' bat for maybe just two of shields' arm.

james shields is a good player. he's certainly not one of the best pitchers in baseball.

moore has a really, really bad habit of trading guys away and not getting their full value.
without looking it up, who did he get for zack greinke?
At the very least they got escobar, their young starting SS for greinke. Shields might not be an ace, but kc was desperate for talented SPs, Shields was the best they could do and so they did. Are people still downplaying Myers talent now that Tampa acquired him? When he was discussed for Lester he was a strikeout machine and overrated because of the PCL. But Friedman wants him, so he must be good right?

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12-09-2012, 11:44 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
they gave up six years of myers' bat for maybe just two of shields' arm.

james shields is a good player. he's certainly not one of the best pitchers in baseball.

moore has a really, really bad habit of trading guys away and not getting their full value.

without looking it up, who did he get for zack greinke?
Having looked it up, it was greinke and betancourt for escobar, lorenzo cain, jeremy jeffress, and jake odirizzi (who goes to tampa for shields). Two everyday players and a RP, plus a pitching prospect that was flipped for shields and davis.

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12-10-2012, 01:20 AM
  #272
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Sheilds is a nice enough player him and Davis for Meyers would be OK but KC added another big time prospect which is mind boggling.

And I can't imagine Sheilds is a guy who ever gets rewarded with a 15+ mil per year contract so 2 years of him is nothing special. If he was FA now I think he'd only fetch 10 a year or so.

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:08 AM
  #273
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You have yet to enlighten me. I'm under the impression the debate is over whether or not josh hamiltons heroin addiction should be factored into the red six signing him. I am on the "it should be" side of things, while not only are you on the "it shouldn't be" side you are also looking down upon those who don't agree with you.

I don't have a problem attacking josh hamiltons character. The fact that he is currently addicted to heroin, although not using heroin currently is my justification. I don't care if he's 10 years clean, he will always be an addict. I'm just saying let some one else roll the dice.
I told you my problem. But since you and your other condescending friend don't get it I'll say it again.

Pay attention.

Recovering. He is a recovering heroin addict.

He is not a heroin addict. He isn't using heroin today. To say it the way you did is callous, inaccurate, and *******y.

Yeah, his past problems are always hanging over him and absolutely any team has to consider it when signing him. Never said otherwise.

But you can say it with a little more tact. It is dismissive and insulting. We have people on this board, respected posters, that have talked about past problems with substance abuse. What you said was insulting to them and to anyone that has ever been touched, directly or indirectly, by substance abuse problems.

Now go away.

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Old
12-10-2012, 08:22 AM
  #274
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Should be interesting to see what Meyers does.

Gotta think the Salty for Floyd is still in play, no?

Unless they think Webster and De La Rosa would be making a pitch for a role on the club?
Yes, I think they are still going to trade him for a pitcher, probably Floyd. It's not a bad move, then you sign a free agent arm and your rotation isn't that bad; with wild cards like Morales & Lackey still in the mix.
I still think they are going to re-up Cody Ross too. Depth move, that will give them 4 pretty good outfielders.

It's definitely a bridge year; but there would still be enough talent on the roster to keep it interesting.

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12-10-2012, 11:17 AM
  #275
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I told you my problem. But since you and your other condescending friend don't get it I'll say it again.

Pay attention.

Recovering. He is a recovering heroin addict.

He is not a heroin addict. He isn't using heroin today. To say it the way you did is callous, inaccurate, and *******y.

Yeah, his past problems are always hanging over him and absolutely any team has to consider it when signing him. Never said otherwise.

But you can say it with a little more tact. It is dismissive and insulting. We have people on this board, respected posters, that have talked about past problems with substance abuse. What you said was insulting to them and to anyone that has ever been touched, directly or indirectly, by substance abuse problems.

Now go away.

I thought saying "recovering" was unneccessary. Everyone knows he isn't using today, but it doesn't mean he is no longer a heroin addict. What I said was technically correct. No he is no longer using heroin currently, but that doesn't mean he's not an addict.

Recovering addicts are not recovered addicts. Recovered addicts do not exist. I didn't go on and call him a ******* for being one and insult him for being one. I just said that he is one. Being directly affected or not on a personal level should not be used to issue superiority on the subject matter.

That one word I left out is the reason for this debate? I apologize but josh hamilton hasn't earned a second chance from me, so calling him a recovering addict would soften my statement on him. To me, an addict is an addict. Good for him that right now, he isn't using but he's still an addict. I'll stand by my statement. Perhaps more clarity besides "awful post" would have shortened the debate about what exactly was so awful so thank you for elaborating. Truthfully. I just disagree with you on the topic, Respectfully. Typically I think your takes are good on this board. No need to argue anymore at this point, it seems we are at an impasse

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