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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Successful teams that might lose fans/money if they struggle on the ice too long

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12-09-2012, 09:24 PM
  #76
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Agree to disagree. I saw the Bruins fall of the map in the late 90's early 2000's as well as coming out of the lockout. During both time periods I routinely purchased 10 dollar tickets at the window minutes before the puck drop. As far as Boston not being a "football town" I think the 10+ year wait list on Patriots season tickets would disagree. Pink hat nation has killed off many of the old time Sox fans and fact is the glory days of the old Boston Garden and the hey day of the Bruins of the 70's and the Celts of the 80's is long gone. Pats rule in Boston now. When it's "cool" the masses cheer for the Sox, Celts and Bruins but everyone cheers for the Pats.
Hilarious, considering those of us who remember the Drew Bledsoe era, and the serious relocation threat that loomed prior to Kraft buying the Pats.

There's an ebb and flow to the sports community in Boston, with exactly one constant: if you don't take the Fans seriously, the Fans return the favor.

One thing people can really fail to apprecoate about New Englanders. We're emotional people, and we want a product with emotional appeal. We don't take well to mercenaries. Play the Boston way, and show a Boston attitude, and we fill your house. Don't, and we don't. Simple as that.

I can talk about "a Boston attitude" and everyone here is probably within 10 degrees or so of knowing what I mean. Brash. Combative. Willing to take on all comers and give as good as you get without measuring the odds. We've always been a town with something to prove in sports, because we always wind up in the same freaking division as the biggest freaking market, usually New York, but you'll notice which division Toronto and Montreal are in in the NHL. So we value teams that go out there with something to prove -- and then prove it. When the Sox show that attitude, everyone calls us a baseball town. When the Celts do, it's a basketball town, Same for football and hockey. The truth is, Boston is a fighting town, and it wants to root for a fighting team. Which sport? Doesn't matter as much as you might think.

It's not pink-hattishness either, although some of that does happen. It's that there's a way Boston likes to present itself in the sports world. Fans reward the teams that present themselves the Boston way. Defiance, passion and fighting spirit matter a lot more than which sport is which here.


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12-09-2012, 09:32 PM
  #77
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Hilarious, considering those of us who remember the Drew Bledsoe era, and the serious relocation threat that loomed prior to Kraft buying the Pats.

There's an ebb and flow to the sports community in Boston, with exactly one constant: if you don't take the Fans seriously, the Fans return the favor. We're emotional here, and we want a product with emotional appeal. We don't take well to mercenaries. Play the Boston way, and show a Boston attitude, and we fill your house. Don't, and we don't. Simple as that.

It's not pink-hattishness either, although some of that does happen. It's that there's a way Boston likes to present itself in the sports world. Fans reward the teams that present themselves the Boston way. Defiance, passion and fighting spirit matter a lot more than which sport is which here.
Tell me more about the relocation?

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12-09-2012, 09:42 PM
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Tell me more about the relocation?
It was "before my time" since I wasn't really watching any sports until I had a chance to get out to college. I was strictly a Sox fan back then, and followed baseball on the radio. All I remember specifically is that there was talk of a relocation to I want to say St. Louis before Kraft, Belichick and Brady came to town. I'm not actually sure fan interest was at fault. They had a decent team that had sniffed the Superbowl in I want to say 96, but lost to Favre, but for some reason the team just wasn't stable. I know I wouldn't want to move out of the New England market in favor of St. Louis if everything was smooth sailing

But the Patriots weren't a premium franchise either in terms of the NFL or New England sports before the Tuck Rule Game, that's for danged sure. They were one of the big 4, sure, but for everyone claiming they were always a Patriots fan, somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of them aren't telling the truth

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12-09-2012, 09:42 PM
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Tell me more about the relocation?
The Sullivan family sold the team to Victor Kiam in 1988 and the team went on a torrid run of mediocrity rarely seen in the NFL by any team not named the Bucs or Saints. Kiam then sold the team to a fella from St Louis whose name escapes me and whose sole intention was to move the team to his home town. Kraft whom I believe was a minority owner at the time stepped in and bought the franchise to keep it in New England.


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12-09-2012, 09:54 PM
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It was "before my time" since I wasn't really watching any sports until I had a chance to get out to college. I was strictly a Sox fan back then, and followed baseball on the radio. All I remember specifically is that there was talk of a relocation to I want to say St. Louis before Kraft, Belichick and Brady came to town. I'm not actually sure fan interest was at fault. They had a decent team that had sniffed the Superbowl in I want to say 96, but lost to Favre, but for some reason the team just wasn't stable. I know I wouldn't want to move out of the New England market in favor of St. Louis if everything was smooth sailing

But the Patriots weren't a premium franchise either in terms of the NFL or New England sports before the Tuck Rule Game, that's for danged sure. They were one of the big 4, sure, but for everyone claiming they were always a Patriots fan, somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of them aren't telling the truth
The Patriots have been a quality franchise since the mid 90's. Bill Parcells and an owner who actually cared about the team brought respectability to what had been a laughably, but beloved amungst long time season ticket holders; NFL franchise. The playoff tickets for the 1996 playoff run were some of the hardest to come by in all of my time as a New England sports fan and the fog game against Pitt still ranks up there as one of my all time favorites. That team was very good and had it not been for the Kraft-Parcells rift over personal they would have done great things. In the end it all worked out but my point is the Pats were a strong # 2 in the mid to late 90's behind only the Sox.

Either way the Patriots are now the measuring stick for not only other NFL franchises but all sport franchises. Only the Yankees, Dodgers, Cowboys and Redskins are more profitable in North America. Not bad for a team based out of Foxboro MA.


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12-09-2012, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
It was "before my time" since I wasn't really watching any sports until I had a chance to get out to college. I was strictly a Sox fan back then, and followed baseball on the radio. All I remember specifically is that there was talk of a relocation to I want to say St. Louis before Kraft, Belichick and Brady came to town. I'm not actually sure fan interest was at fault. They had a decent team that had sniffed the Superbowl in I want to say 96, but lost to Favre, but for some reason the team just wasn't stable. I know I wouldn't want to move out of the New England market in favor of St. Louis if everything was smooth sailing

But the Patriots weren't a premium franchise either in terms of the NFL or New England sports before the Tuck Rule Game, that's for danged sure. They were one of the big 4, sure, but for everyone claiming they were always a Patriots fan, somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of them aren't telling the truth
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The Sullivan family sold the team to Victor Kiam in 1988 and the team went on a torrid run of mediocrity rarely seen in the NFL by any team not named the Bucs or Saintths. Kiam then sold the team to a fella from St Louis whose name escapes me and whose sole intention was to move the team to his home town. Kraft whom I believe was a minority owner at the time stepped in and bought the franchise to keep it in New England.

Bob Orthwein. I also found this

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12-09-2012, 10:46 PM
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Bob Orthwein. I also found this
Haha, the old Hartford move. Many in Boston sports media contend it was nothing more than a leverage play by Kraft and that he never really intended on moving the team. There was also talk about them building a stadium in the south end. I tend to agree about the Hartford move being leverage but the relocation thing was real and were it not for Kraft the Patriots would now be in St Louis.

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12-09-2012, 10:58 PM
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Haha, the old Hartford move. Many in Boston sports media contend it was nothing more than a leverage play by Kraft and that he never really intended on moving the team. There was also talk about them building a stadium in the south end. I tend to agree about the Hartford move being leverage but the relocation thing was real and were it not for Kraft the Patriots would now be in St Louis.
Thanks for the info.

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12-10-2012, 01:37 PM
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If the nords were back they would be in this same boat.

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12-11-2012, 06:45 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Haha, the old Hartford move. Many in Boston sports media contend it was nothing more than a leverage play by Kraft and that he never really intended on moving the team. There was also talk about them building a stadium in the south end. I tend to agree about the Hartford move being leverage but the relocation thing was real and were it not for Kraft the Patriots would now be in St Louis.
It is the same thing that Lemieux did in Pittsburgh to get the new arena. He used KC as leverage and even admitted so after it was all said and done. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=189245 That is from a Kansas City website where they are talking about knowing all along that Lemieux was using them to get what he wanted in Pittsburgh but going along just in case things did actually fall apart and the team moved.
The Penguins currently could probably withstand a few sub-par seasons without any or very little attendance drop but if they returned to the dredges of the early 2000's then the sell out streak would end after a season or two.
The numbers are right there for everyone to see about the attendance numbers when they were really bad, especially in 2003/2004, but fan support wasn't what put the team in that situation. This horse has been beaten to death in many threads over the last few years but it was criminal what had happened to the Pens team after the run to the ECF i believe in 2000/2001 when they lost to the devils. Tell me what fan base wouldn't be pissed off when the likes of Jagr, Kovalev, Lang, Kasparaitis, and Straka were all traded away not long after that run. Aside from the Leafs and maybe the Canadiens, I'm not sure many teams would fill their arena after something like that. In fact, Montreal probably would have been burned to the ground in anger over something like that.

The Steelers are the only team in Pittsburgh that would be able to sell-out no matter what. They could lose for a long time and still sell-out because their season tickets are so hard to come by and are passed down from generation to generation. Their continued success for basically 40 years(i know they had a few bad years in the 80's) has created this devotion to them that has ingrained them in the fabric of Pittsburgh. The Pirates used to have a great fan base but horrid owners, drafting, and 20 straight losing seasons have left them in ruins. Just think about your favorite Hockey team having 20 straight losing seasons and I bet most of them would have been relocated by now.

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12-11-2012, 06:47 PM
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It is the same thing that Lemieux did in Pittsburgh to get the new arena. He used KC as leverage and even admitted so after it was all said and done. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=189245 That is from a Kansas City website where they are talking about knowing all along that Lemieux was using them to get what he wanted in Pittsburgh but going along just in case things did actually fall apart and the team moved.
The Penguins currently could probably withstand a few sub-par seasons without any or very little attendance drop but if they returned to the dredges of the early 2000's then the sell out streak would end after a season or two.
The numbers are right there for everyone to see about the attendance numbers when they were really bad, especially in 2003/2004, but fan support wasn't what put the team in that situation. This horse has been beaten to death in many threads over the last few years but it was criminal what had happened to the Pens team after the run to the ECF i believe in 2000/2001 when they lost to the devils. Tell me what fan base wouldn't be pissed off when the likes of Jagr, Kovalev, Lang, Kasparaitis, and Straka were all traded away not long after that run. Aside from the Leafs and maybe the Canadiens, I'm not sure many teams would fill their arena after something like that. In fact, Montreal probably would have been burned to the ground in anger over something like that.

The Steelers are the only team in Pittsburgh that would be able to sell-out no matter what. They could lose for a long time and still sell-out because their season tickets are so hard to come by and are passed down from generation to generation. Their continued success for basically 40 years(i know they had a few bad years in the 80's) has created this devotion to them that has ingrained them in the fabric of Pittsburgh. The Pirates used to have a great fan base but horrid owners, drafting, and 20 straight losing seasons have left them in ruins. Just think about your favorite Hockey team having 20 straight losing seasons and I bet most of them would have been relocated by now.
Blue Jays are still in Toronto. Not the number one sport either.

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