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12-09-2012, 11:20 PM
  #426
Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
That is just a list of players.

That is not an argument that Grabovski does not equal or surpass individuals on this list.
That is not an argument that Grabovski is not a top-6 forward.

Still waiting, so yes, you are still dodging the question.

Actually that perfectly sums up that you need better players than Grabovski to win Stanley Cups.

Your response only shows how lowly your position is.

Time to admit you're wrong and are just a homer.

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12-09-2012, 11:20 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Every time they have played together.
And when was that?

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12-09-2012, 11:20 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
No. Kessel and Grabo don't gel together.

I've heard Kessel being called elite before. If Grabovski was so good he would be able to play with elite players.

After all, playoff teams and contending teams have many elite players. If Grabo finds it so hard to crack the first line center position on a terrible team like the Leafs, there's no chance he could do it on good teams.

In fact, the only real place Grabo has in a top six centre role is on non-playoff teams.
It's truly amusing and it's making my night, that these Grabo enablers demand proof, I provide it and yet they have zero proof of their own that Grabo could be a top 1 or 2 C on a cup team.

Ironic or what, but then again we have 'maybe or what if' in the world of Grabo enabling.

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12-09-2012, 11:20 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
And when was that?
2009/2010 and for stretches during the 2010/2011 season.

In those seasons the Leafs finished 2nd last and 9th last.

So yeah Grabovski is not a first line center on a really really terrible team either.

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12-09-2012, 11:24 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
2009/2010 and for stretches during the 2010/2011 season.

In those seasons the Leafs finished 2nd last and 9th last.

So yeah Grabovski is not a first line center on a really really terrible team either.
That is not true at all. You are just flat-out lying now.

And you have not provided any evidence that any times played with them together were unsuccessful. In fact, there are plenty of times more recently that they have ended up on the same line momentarily and they have had a great chance.

But they have never been tried for any consistent stretch of games, especially not since 2010 when Grabovski improved his play significantly.

And yes, Grabovski is still the #1 center on this team. And that entire 2nd=3rd argument is illogical anyway.

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12-09-2012, 11:26 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Actually that perfectly sums up that you need better players than Grabovski to win Stanley Cups.

Your response only shows how lowly your position is.

Time to admit you're wrong and are just a homer.
Sorry meant this for the funny guy.


Last edited by Interactif: 12-09-2012 at 11:45 PM.
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12-09-2012, 11:27 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
That is not true at all. You are just flat-out lying now.

They have never been tried for any consistent stretch of games, especially not since 2010 when Grabovski improved his play significantly.

And yes, Grabovski is still the #1 center on this team. And that entire 2nd=3rd argument is illogical anyway.
Yes they have. Many times during the 2009/10 seasons when they changed Stajan and Grabovski constantly between Kessel and again next season between Bozak and Grabovski especially during Bozak's stints in the AHL which were lengthy.

So please stop acting like a baby and drop this game you are playing. Obviously you post with the sole intention of pumping everything to do with the Leafs. That's called being a homer and everyone can see it.

So far you've called me a dog, a troll, and a liar and in doing so provided absolutely nothing to support this silly position you've dug yourself in.

Basically all you do is say "prove he isn't" and then dismiss all points made and offer nothing to the table.

Put up a poll on the NHL board if Grabovski is a top six center on a contender.

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12-09-2012, 11:28 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
That is not true at all. You are just flat-out lying now.

And you have not provided any evidence that any times played with them together were unsuccessful. In fact, there are plenty of times more recently that they have ended up on the same line momentarily and they have had a great chance.

But they have never been tried for any consistent stretch of games, especially not since 2010 when Grabovski improved his play significantly.

And yes, Grabovski is still the #1 center on this team. And that entire 2nd=3rd argument is illogical anyway.
You are wrong so often that you need your own personal fact checker. Bozak was the #1C last year on the number 1 line, not Grabo, he has never been a number 1 on this team. A #2c on a 25th place team you claim can be a top 2 C on 3 cup winning teams.

Obcourse you have no proof of this claim or shall I say outlandish leap.

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12-09-2012, 11:29 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes they have. Many times during the 2009/10 seasons when they changed Stajan and Grabovski constantly between Kessel and again next season between Bozak and Grabovski especially during Bozak's stints in the AHL which were lengthy.

So please stop acting like a baby and drop this game you are playing. Obviously you post with the sole intention of pumping everything to do with the Leafs. That's called being a homer and everyone can see it.
Prove it. Show me games where they played together, and their outcomes. Otherwise it's just your unsubstantiated bashing, and we all know how much your word and analysis is worth.

Your memory is really, really bad.

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12-09-2012, 11:30 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You are wrong so often that you need your own personal fact checker. Bozak was the #1C last year on the number 1 line, not Grabo, he has never been a number 1 on this team.
Grabovski is the #1 center on this team. He played on the 2nd, the shutdown line.

And actually for much of the year before, he was the #1 center, and played on the 1st line.

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12-09-2012, 11:32 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes they have. Many times during the 2009/10 seasons when they changed Stajan and Grabovski constantly between Kessel and again next season between Bozak and Grabovski especially during Bozak's stints in the AHL which were lengthy.

So please stop acting like a baby and drop this game you are playing. Obviously you post with the sole intention of pumping everything to do with the Leafs. That's called being a homer and everyone can see it.

So far you've called me a dog, a troll, and a liar and in doing so provided absolutely nothing to support this silly position you've dug yourself in.

Basically all you do is say "prove he isn't" and then dismiss all points made and offer nothing to the table.

Put up a poll on the NHL board if Grabovski is a top six center on a contender.
This guy thinks competing for a center postition against Lombardi, Stajan, or Mitchell is like competing for a job against Bergeron, Krejci, Richards, or Koptitar. Someone ping some sense into him. Outlandish!

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12-09-2012, 11:32 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Actually I provided more facts to back my position than you did. It isn't even close, you are in no position to demand anything since you have proved nothing to support your position.

It's incumbent on YOU, to prove why Grabo can win a cup on 3 of the teams you mentioned. I will wait, the forum waits...It's not coming because what will follow is if, and buts, you are nuts posts.
So far I've learned a lot:

- We are interested in staying a non-playoff team because we believe in the losers (players and management) that have sunk this franchise to new pathetic lows

- Grabovski, despite playing on the 2nd line, is our 1st line center

- Grabovski, despite playing on the 2nd line on one of the worst teams in the league, would actually fare better on better teams with better centremen already there

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12-09-2012, 11:35 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
Prove it. Show me games where they played together, and their outcomes. Otherwise it's just your unsubstantiated bashing, and we all know how much your word and analysis is worth.

Your memory is really, really bad.
I have no reason to prove anything to you.

Grabovski played a lot with Kessel when Bozak was not here and switched between Stajan.

I'm sorry you need to rewrite history because you are in love with Grabovski.

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12-09-2012, 11:39 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I have no reason to prove anything to you.

Grabovski played a lot with Kessel when Bozak was not here and switched between Stajan.

I'm sorry you need to rewrite history because you are in love with Grabovski.
That was not 2010/2011, and even before that, it was not for any amount of substantial time (and it was a different, younger Grabovski). You are just now spreading lies.

No, you have no reason to prove anything to me. It's a free country. Your opinion and posts mean jack squat then though.

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12-09-2012, 11:41 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
A number 1 center incapable of playing on the 1st line, in your words he played on the second line so he is a #2C, shutdown not really because Wilson was not a match up coach, lesson to you, Carlyle is and he likes his 3rd lines to shut down the other scoring team's lines. Remember Rob Neidermayer, Moen, Paulsson.
He is not incapable of playing on the 1st line. It is simply better for the team to spread out our offense and the players who can carry plays.

Yes, Carlyle likes his 3rd lines to be the shutdown line. Wilson used Grabovski's line.

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12-09-2012, 11:45 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
That was not 2010/2011, and even before that, it was not for any amount of substantial time (and it was a different, younger Grabovski). You are just now spreading lies.

No, you have no reason to prove anything to me. It's a free country. Your opinion and posts mean jack squat then though.
Okay well first of all. Yes, Kessel and Grabovski were playing together in 2010/2011. The fact that you don't even know this basically ruins what little credibility you think you have. They played even more together in 2009/2010.

Oh but now you're admitting they did! (am I still a liar?)

Oh but now Grabo was worse back then? Is that so? Well you can't even seem to remember correctly who he played with so what gives you the impression you remember how he played?

You're an absolute joke of a poster.

I've been here years and I've never seen such a silly act.

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12-09-2012, 11:48 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Okay well first of all. Yes, Kessel and Grabovski were playing together in 2010/2011. The fact that you don't even know this basically ruins what little credibility you think you have. They played even more together in 2009/2010.

Oh but now you're admitting they did! (am I still a liar?)

Oh but now Grabo was worse back then? Is that so? Well you can't even seem to remember correctly who he played with so what gives you the impression you remember how he played?

You're an absolute joke of a poster.

I've been here years and I've never seen such a silly act.
I never said Grabovski and Kessel have never stepped on the ice together. They never played together for any substantial amount of time that you would be able to draw conclusions if they even played bad, which they didn't.

And yes, Grabovski took a big step in his development in 2010.

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12-09-2012, 11:53 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Did you speak with Caryle or Ronnie? For a second there I thought you said we should use a 5'11 185lbs 28 assist man with minimal vision on the ice last year, as opposed to a near 200 lbs center with a defensive conscience, and have 3 guys caught up ice goal sucking, all while keeping the puck away from our most gifted offensive player.
No, I know hockey strategies and common sense.

BTW, continuously saying things about Grabovski doesn't make them true, unfortunately for you.

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12-09-2012, 11:53 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Okay well first of all. Yes, Kessel and Grabovski were playing together in 2010/2011. The fact that you don't even know this basically ruins what little credibility you think you have. They played even more together in 2009/2010
Kessel was paired with Grabovski 3.03% of the time at even-strength in 2010-11.

It probably amounts to about 2-3 games worth of time together. That's what you're basing your argument on?

So no, Grabovski did not play "a lot" with Kessel.

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12-09-2012, 11:56 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Okay well first of all. Yes, Kessel and Grabovski were playing together in 2010/2011. The fact that you don't even know this basically ruins what little credibility you think you have. They played even more together in 2009/2010.

Oh but now you're admitting they did! (am I still a liar?)

Oh but now Grabo was worse back then? Is that so? Well you can't even seem to remember correctly who he played with so what gives you the impression you remember how he played?

You're an absolute joke of a poster.

I've been here years and I've never seen such a silly act.
In the 09-10 season Kessel and Grabovski don't even show up in each other's top 10 teammates by shared icetime. Grabovski has more icetime with: Hagman, Blake, Ponikarovsky, Kulemin, and even Caputi. Had they spent more than 15.6% of their icetime together Grabovski would have showed up in Kessel's top 10.

In the 10-11 season only 13.9% of Grabovskis icetime was shared with Kessel, he makes it in at 10th spot. In comparison, he shared 80% of his icetime with Kulemin and MacArthur.

These things are checkable, you know. Perhaps it's you who isn't remembering things very clearly. Grabovski has in fact never spent any significant stretch with Kessel as a winger.

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12-09-2012, 11:57 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Kessel was paired with Grabovski 3.03% of the time in 2010-11.

It probably amounts to about 2-3 games worth of time together. That's what you're basing your argument on?

So no, Grabovski did not play "a lot" with Kessel.
No that would be about 10-12 games considering the Leafs use Kessel and Grabovski way more than other forwards.

3% of all the shifts the forwards took all year is not 40-60 minutes of icetime.

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12-09-2012, 11:57 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
And yes they did. Who were these supposed centremen that Kessel played with during 2009/2010? Stajan Moore and Grabovski. We all know Moore played with Blake so you can forget about him. Stajan and Grabo switched between Kessel and this was Grabovski's worst year as a pro as a result.
It was Stajan and then Bozak.

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12-10-2012, 12:03 AM
  #448
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No that would be about 10-12 games considering the Leafs use Kessel and Grabovski way more than other forwards.

3% of all the shifts the forwards took all year is not 40-60 minutes of icetime.
That is not anywhere close to 10-12 games.

Obviously not so good on the math either.

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12-10-2012, 12:04 AM
  #449
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If and if again for the enablers, if Grabo was capable of playing with Blake, Kessel or whatever 40 or 37 goal winger the Leafs had, Wilson would have tried it.

Why would Wilson put a 28 assists playmaker that is 185 lbs of a crash test dummy with Kessel, you want the softest line in the NHL?

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12-10-2012, 12:06 AM
  #450
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no you don't.
Actually he does.

The fact is that Grabo has been a staple 2nd line center on one of the worst teams in hockey since he's been here.

That means good teams have better centres.

Common sense.

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