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Is Grabovski a top-six centre on a contender?

View Poll Results: Is Grabovski a first or second line centre on a contender?
Yes 164 56.94%
No 77 26.74%
Not if they want to win 47 16.32%
Voters: 288. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:42 AM
  #1
Bomber0104
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Is Grabovski a top-six centre on a contender?

The title basically says it all.

There's a few Leafs fans on the Leafs board that are convinced that Grabo is not only a 2nd line centreman on a team challenging for the Cup but even as much as a 1st line centreman.

I'm asking non-Leafs fans if they believe a team with Cup aspirations should consider Grabovski a first or second line centreman.


Last edited by Bomber0104: 12-13-2012 at 12:00 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
12-10-2012, 01:46 AM
  #2
Vankiller Whale
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He could be. I mean, there are better 2nd line centres than Grabovski, but he's still a really good player, and there's nothing wrong with having him at 2C.

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12-10-2012, 01:48 AM
  #3
Eisen
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Voted no, wish I would have voted yes after a minute of thinking. He's certainly not the best but he is good enough imho.

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:52 AM
  #4
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assuming the top five best teams in the conference (plus LA since they actually won it) are Cup contenders:

NYR -- push
Boston -- no
Florida -- yes
Pittsburgh -- lolno
Philadelphia -- no
Vancouver -- no
STL -- push
Phoenix -- yes
Nashville -- push
Chicago -- if Kane is RW, yes. otherwise no.
LA -- no

so for a weak contender (oxymoronic as that statement is), I'd say yes. Would want a better #2 on a Cup team, however.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:07 AM
  #5
PALE PWNR
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Hes a serviceable #2 Center, if I am contending for the cup he better be my number 3 though.

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12-10-2012, 02:16 AM
  #6
HappyGilmourr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Hes a serviceable #2 Center, if I am contending for the cup he better be my number 3 though.
wrong, he's an above average second line Centre I would go as far as saying he is an elite number 2 centre. Defensively sound, he plays against the other teams top lines and still manages to put up 55-60. He's so under rated its frustrating. I would go as far as saying he's the leafs most important forward. Thats the problem though... he shouldn't be our best forward he should be our 4th best forward on the second line.. That's why we desperately need a number 1 so Grabovski doesn't have to be that guy.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:18 AM
  #7
Pyrophorus
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2 seasons ago he centered the 5th best line in the league.

Was that an aberration, or could he be like this, at least in spurts?

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:19 AM
  #8
VinnyC
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If he has quality wingers (say, Clowe and Hemsky) then he can definitively anchor a 2nd line on a contender. Kinda like Weiss.

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12-10-2012, 02:24 AM
  #9
HappyGilmourr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
If he has quality wingers (say, Clowe and Hemsky) then he can definitively anchor a 2nd line on a contender. Kinda like Weiss.
This has nothing to do with it... He makes his wingers better.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:29 AM
  #10
Liminality
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Don't think he has the consistency to be a #1 centre but he's got the skills and hustle to be a decent #2 offensive centre.

So sure, he could be a 2nd line centre on a cup contending team.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:32 AM
  #11
Machinehead
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Absolutely. I think he makes a great second line center on a Cup team provided he has some good wingers to work with.

Look at the 2C's on the final 4 this year: Adam Henrique, Derek Stepan, Mike Richards, and Martin Hanzal.

Now Stepan, Henrique, and Richards are better going forward, but when you consider that Stepan and Henrique were just kids last year, and Richards was having a crappy year for Richards, they weren't far off from where Grabo is now, and those teams did just fine.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:34 AM
  #12
VinnyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
This has nothing to do with it... He makes his wingers better.
Well, if he has quality wingers then they'll be of even more quality because of his presence. That's what contenders look for. Players that can make good skaters great.\\

Quote:
Now Stepan, Henrique, and Richards are better going forward, but when you consider that Stepan and Henrique were just kids last year, and Richards was having a crappy year for Richards, they weren't far off from where Grabo is now, and those teams did just fine
They had great linemates, though:

Stepan - Callahan and Anisimov
Henrique - Kovalchuk and Parise
Richards - Carter and Williams

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12-10-2012, 02:40 AM
  #13
HappyGilmourr
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I'm basing this on the last 2 years which is completely fair because that's when Grabovski broke out.

2010.11
29 goals - 10th overall among C's.
58 points - 25th overall among C's.


2011.12
21 goals - 18th overall
51 points - 30th overall.


Among scoring statistics he's in the top 30 in every category. Offensively he's on par with what an elite second line guy should be. Defensively I have no way to convince you because I my self don't put a lot of faith in +/- stats but he's been a + player the past 2 seasons while playing against the other teams best line. You have to watch him to appreciate how good he is. He's so important to us, there's a reason he got the contract he did. Maybe 5.5 is a little rich but that's the direction the NHL is going and is what all these guys are getting now.

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12-10-2012, 02:41 AM
  #14
eklunds source
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Grabovski is a heck of a lot better than people think.

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12-10-2012, 02:43 AM
  #15
Yashintangibles
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Grabo would be an exceptional fit on the checking-line of a cup contender.
On a playoffs team he would be fine as a 2nd liner.

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12-10-2012, 02:44 AM
  #16
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Of course he can be a #2 center on a contender.

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12-10-2012, 02:44 AM
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Yashintangibles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Grabovski is a heck of a lot better than people think.
Grabovski is immensely underrated here.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:45 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
I'm basing this on the last 2 years which is completely fair because that's when Grabovski broke out.

2010.11
29 goals - 10th overall among C's.
58 points - 25th overall among C's.


2011.12
21 goals - 18th overall
51 points - 30th overall.


Among scoring statistics he's in the top 30 in every category. Offensively he's on par with what an elite second line guy should be. Defensively I have no way to convince you because I my self don't put a lot of faith in +/- stats but he's been a + player the past 2 seasons while playing against the other teams best line. You have to watch him to appreciate how good he is. He's so important to us, there's a reason he got the contract he did. Maybe 5.5 is a little rich but that's the direction the NHL is going and is what all these guys are getting now.
You can't just straight up use stats like that though, he likely wouldn't get the quality of minutes that he gets in Toronto on a team with better center depth.

(Not saying I disagree that he is a great #2, just playing devil's advocate)

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12-10-2012, 02:51 AM
  #19
Machinehead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Well, if he has quality wingers then they'll be of even more quality because of his presence. That's what contenders look for. Players that can make good skaters great.\\



They had great linemates, though:

Stepan - Callahan and Anisimov
Henrique - Kovalchuk and Parise
Richards - Carter and Williams
If we're talking about Cup contenders I think great linemates are a given. Nobody wins the Cup without a very good top 6 at both wing and center.

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12-10-2012, 02:54 AM
  #20
The Blue Devil
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Just to be clear, most agree that he is a great #2C and could be a #2C/top 6 forward for a contender. However none of us have said that he'd be a #1 on a contender.

Granted it is funny seeing his poll backfire on him.

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12-10-2012, 03:00 AM
  #21
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He'd be serviceable on some weaker Contenders. An average 2nd line center is what he is really. I'd only consider him "elite" if he were dropped down to a 3rd line. He certainly has the talent to fill his role.

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12-10-2012, 03:01 AM
  #22
Muzzinga
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Definately, big Grabovski fan.

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12-10-2012, 03:15 AM
  #23
ponder
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Teams can be constructed in so many different ways. Even looking at nothing but post-lockout Stanley Cup champs, we've seen:

- Brett Hedican as the #1 dman on a cup winning team (2006 Canes)
- David Krejci and Andy McDonald as the #1 Cs on cup winning teams (2011 Bruins and 2007 Ducks)
- Antti Niemi and Chris Osgood as the #1 goalies on cup winning teams (2010 Hawks and 2008 Wings)

These guys would be considered weak #1 dmen/centres/goalies, but teams still won the cup with them playing those positions. Grabo is an above average #2 C, he could clearly be the #2 C on a contender as long as the rest of the team was strong.

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12-10-2012, 03:18 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Teams can be constructed in so many different ways. Even looking at nothing but post-lockout Stanley Cup champs, we've seen:

- Brett Hedican as the #1 dman on a cup winning team (2006 Canes)
- David Krejci and Andy McDonald as the #1 Cs on cup winning teams (2011 Bruins and 2007 Ducks)
- Antti Niemi and Chris Osgood as the #1 goalies on cup winning teams (2010 Hawks and 2008 Wings)

These guys would be considered weak #1 dmen/centres/goalies, but teams still won the cup with them playing those positions. Grabo is an above average #2 C, he could clearly be the #2 C on a contender as long as the rest of the team was strong.
I see your point but I wouldn't consider Andy Mac a weak 1C by any stretch. He's had trouble staying healthy but his PPG is easily first line caliber.

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12-10-2012, 03:24 AM
  #25
VinnyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Teams can be constructed in so many different ways. Even looking at nothing but post-lockout Stanley Cup champs, we've seen:

- Brett Hedican as the #1 dman on a cup winning team (2006 Canes)
- David Krejci and Andy McDonald as the #1 Cs on cup winning teams (2011 Bruins and 2007 Ducks)
- Antti Niemi and Chris Osgood as the #1 goalies on cup winning teams (2010 Hawks and 2008 Wings)

These guys would be considered weak #1 dmen/centres/goalies, but teams still won the cup with them playing those positions. Grabo is an above average #2 C, he could clearly be the #2 C on a contender as long as the rest of the team was strong.
You're right. Although let's also consider that the Ducks 2C was Getzlaf (who ended up playing more than Andy, and so did Pahlsson during the cup run) and the Bruins' was Bergeron; both teams had crazy forward depth.

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