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News from Around the League - Part XXXV - I'll see you in court!

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Old
12-09-2012, 12:09 AM
  #551
goalvalchuk17
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Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
If the whole season gets wiped out then 99% the union decertifies if that happens the draft is canceled
we're getting wayyyyyyy ahead of ourselves. if the season is wiped out i don't see this lockout lasting any longer than 04-05. don't think there's a point in decertifying once the season's over.

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12-09-2012, 12:15 AM
  #552
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The 5-year deal limit is a huge thing for the players, and I can completely understand that. People just see "zomg they are so well paid" but it's really about having power and leverage in how you negotiate future contracts.

Unions this and unions that. Imagine of you were one of the best in your field in the world, say computer engineering, and there were limits to what Google could pay you if they hired you, because all owners in the computer business had made some deal about a salary cap. That's just as "bad" and regulated as unions dictating things.

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12-09-2012, 02:03 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by VaxjoDevil View Post
Unions this and unions that. Imagine of you were one of the best in your field in the world, say computer engineering, and there were limits to what Google could pay you if they hired you, because all owners in the computer business had made some deal about a salary cap. That's just as "bad" and regulated as unions dictating things.
Nope. Because if Google (the NHL) wants to limits what you can make doesn't mean that Bing (every other league) will or has to.

The NHL is now a salary cap league and rules like this are pretty much needed to help stop the ridiculous circumvention contracts.

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12-09-2012, 07:46 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
If the whole season gets wiped out then 99% the union decertifies if that happens the draft is canceled
Ya, the threat of decertification scares the hell out of me. If they do that, I think the season is done for sure. It's already teetering on the precipice.

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12-09-2012, 10:14 AM
  #555
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The computer engineering thing isn't relevant because Bing, Yahoo, etc. can all pay you more. If they come up with a "salary cap", it would be collusion and employees could sue the company.

The MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL pretty much have monopolies on their sports and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Some football league tried to challenge the NFL, not sure if it was the USFL or UFL or whatever, but they lost the legal battle and their league folded.

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12-09-2012, 11:01 AM
  #556
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The one thing I learned from this lockout and all the big mouth players is most of them really do only care about money. So now at this point I won't be surprised if Zajsc leaves for Winnipeg for more money. Even though they haven't won a playoff game ever, and have only made the playoffs once in their 13 year history. Or if Clarkson left for Toronto. The only team in the league that hasn't made the playoffs since 04 before the last lockout. I wouldn't be surprised if the CBJ throws one of them a ton of money, and they go there.

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12-09-2012, 11:10 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
Nope. Because if Google (the NHL) wants to limits what you can make doesn't mean that Bing (every other league) will or has to.

The NHL is now a salary cap league and rules like this are pretty much needed to help stop the ridiculous circumvention contracts.
True that you can see Google as NHL (perhaps more correct, although it's a de facto monopoly business with no real competitors), but you can also see Google as one of the teams, and the computer industry as the NHL, which was what I meant.

No business where the owners made THEIR money has been regulated like the NHL, and they would never accept it.

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12-09-2012, 03:25 PM
  #558
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The sports leagues all get nice anti-trust exemptions, and I think the rationale used is that the players of those sports are adequately represented in their interests by the players' unions. That's why decertification is a threat, it allows players to pursue individual anti-trust lawsuits, whereas if the union was operating, they could not because of the CBA.

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12-09-2012, 05:27 PM
  #559
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Saugus, if the season is ultimately cancelled, then what point would there be for Decertification to occur?

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12-09-2012, 05:28 PM
  #560
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Saugus, if the season is ultimately cancelled, then what point would there be for Decertification to occur?
Not much, which is why it's just a threat. But it's a big threat. Decertification is the nuclear option, because the resulting lawsuits could keep the league out of action for years.

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12-09-2012, 05:36 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
The one thing I learned from this lockout and all the big mouth players is most of them really do only care about money. So now at this point I won't be surprised if Zajsc leaves for Winnipeg for more money. Even though they haven't won a playoff game ever, and have only made the playoffs once in their 13 year history. Or if Clarkson left for Toronto. The only team in the league that hasn't made the playoffs since 04 before the last lockout. I wouldn't be surprised if the CBJ throws one of them a ton of money, and they go there.
If the owners get the system they want (5 year limits/7 years with same team) that improves the chances of Zajac staying since we could give him a seven year deal. Money becomes less of an issue with term limits anyway. Elias is actually the one that worries me now that I realized that tool Allan Walsh reps him.

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12-09-2012, 09:48 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Not much, which is why it's just a threat. But it's a big threat. Decertification is the nuclear option, because the resulting lawsuits could keep the league out of action for years.
I'm all for whatever would cause the players maximum pain at this point.

Playing ice hockey ≠ curing NSCLC

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12-09-2012, 09:51 PM
  #563
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I think Walsh has given himself quite a rep after this. He probably hopes that it makes the players want to go to him since he is such a "fighter" but I'll be curious to see what the ramifications of him acting like an ass is.

Get rid of Fehr. Lordy

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12-09-2012, 10:38 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
If the owners get the system they want (5 year limits/7 years with same team) that improves the chances of Zajac staying since we could give him a seven year deal. Money becomes less of an issue with term limits anyway. Elias is actually the one that worries me now that I realized that tool Allan Walsh reps him.
I feel Elias wants to stay as long as he's wanted. What I do worry about though is him going to UFA like Marty did last year. That whole thing was one giants mess. Patty may not take that as well as Marty did either, if he's not extended before July 1st. Lou can't let that happen again cause last July 1st we're lucky Poni was our only casualty out of the Parise situation, minus Parise himself. Moose could have even walked.

Also we might have to pay Patty more than he will be worth at old age if he does indeed go to UFA. Especially with that tough representation he's got.

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12-09-2012, 10:50 PM
  #565
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Poni walked because his agent had heard nothing from the Devils prior to July 1st other than a casual statement of mutual interest.

He got offered a contract to play with his best friend (I guess this is important nowadays) and took it.


Marty knew Lou would offer him a contract but he also understood where Lou's priorities were.
Was it unneeded stress in an all ready stressful offseason? Sure. But Marty just wanted his 2 years and he twisted Lou's arm for it. He wasn't walking.

Elias is smart enough and respected enough in the organization to know the same.

Zajac and Zubrus I'd worry about reaching out to early enough just to let them know somethings coming down the line.

And I worry about one of the looney tunes GMs in the area offer sheeting one of Henrique or Josefson. Who knows what the rewriting of contractual rights will do in that area...

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12-09-2012, 10:53 PM
  #566
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Yeah if you only have contract rights of five years for non-team UFA's and seven years for team UFA's, the offer sheet's going to go the way of the dodo bird anyway. Unless it's something unrealistic like $14 million signing bonuses every year which you would think would be outlawed in the new CBA, or restricted severely.

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12-09-2012, 11:08 PM
  #567
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I'm still 60 percent sure Poni would have been re signed if he was willing to wait until the Parise situation cleared up. Maybe even 75% sure since Parise walked. Can't blame him for not wanting to wait for a day or two. Now Salvador I'm not sure he would have been taken back. Though he did re sign the day before Parise signed with Minnesota.

I think Lou decided late on the 1st or maybe the 2nd early in the day that he was gonna give Parise a certain amount, and obviously the maximum we could afford, and wouldn't go up anymore than that. And this is why Marty, Moose, and the next day Salvador started to be re signed.

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12-09-2012, 11:14 PM
  #568
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Poni had no reason to wait, and had I been a player in his position, I wouldn't wait either.

This is a guy who played on 5 teams in 3 seasons. That's a player who takes a contract when he gets one.


If the rumors are true and Parise's agents really did dupe Lou into thinking he would re-sign, then he probably started doing the math based on the supposedly agreed upon amount.
Lou even said publicly that when he sat down with Zach that weekend, there was never a question of asking for more money than what was offered. So that's why contracts started being signed.

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12-09-2012, 11:17 PM
  #569
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Poni had no reason to wait, and had I been a player in his position, I wouldn't wait either.

This is a guy who played on 5 teams in 3 seasons. That's a player who takes a contract when he gets one.


If the rumors are true and Parise's agents really did dupe Lou into thinking he would re-sign, then he probably started doing the math based on the supposedly agreed upon amount.
Lou even said publicly that when he sat down with Zach that weekend, there was never a question of asking for more money than what was offered. So that's why contracts started being signed.
Yeah I think you could be right about what happened with Parise, and Lou, and when other contracts started to be signed. I don't blame Poni for walking, but I think we would have kept him had he wanted to wait. I don't blame him one bit for walking on the 1st.

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12-10-2012, 12:04 AM
  #570
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12-10-2012, 05:40 AM
  #571
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I'm all for whatever would cause the players maximum pain at this point.

Playing ice hockey ≠ curing NSCLC
That's silly. I don't want to see pain, I want to see hockey.

I'm all for anything that reasonably ends the lockout, and guarantees labour peace for a while. That will require fixing the underlying issues, and that won't happen if the owners share the mentality you've espoused above.

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12-10-2012, 06:34 AM
  #572
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
That's silly. I don't want to see pain, I want to see hockey.

I'm all for anything that reasonably ends the lockout, and guarantees labour peace for a while. That will require fixing the underlying issues, and that won't happen if the owners share the mentality you've espoused above.
Pain now will lead to a net sum of more total hockey.

I'd rather have a permanent fix than another moronic band-aid that leads us to "labor peace for a while", which in reality just means another Union mafia extortion strike in 5 or 6 years. I've seen this movie before, and not only does the ending suck, but I'm sick of watching it.

The NHL is not very financially sound business. Something needs to be done, and paying out 60% of revenues (or more) to employees was never a solvent solution.

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12-10-2012, 06:56 AM
  #573
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Nobody is actually gonna do that lol. I could understand not going to games but not watching them is just hurting themselves more than the teams/nhl.

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12-10-2012, 08:38 AM
  #574
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Nobody is actually gonna do that lol. I could understand not going to games but not watching them is just hurting themselves more than the teams/nhl.
Maybe not because of their effort, but it may happen anyway.

I'm very curious to see how the optics of this strike are going to play out in the real world when this is all over. Given the fragile state of the economy, and the financial pain being felt my millions of Americans, I do think this time might be different. This "looks" awful, and my perception is that people do notice.

On a personal level, I have no desire to go to games even if they work something out today and I do think attendance will suffer. Who knows, maybe it will be like last time and as soon as they return it will be record attendance again, but that's just not my sense of things if the various HFBoards boards are an indication.

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12-10-2012, 09:33 AM
  #575
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Even if you don't fully commit to one of these things, just think about it this way..

If every fan withheld a certain amount of money... be it merch or a couple of tickets you hold back from buying or cutting back on the amount of non-home team games that you watched on TV, just any little amount... there'll be a definite hit in an already shortened season (or lost season).

I know most of us will be back, but most likely without the same enthusiasm. That'll show up in the earnings for sure. Hockey is the 4th best sport in the country in a good year, so those are $$ that the NHL can't really afford to sacrifice.


If MLB fans had it in them to show their disapproval, so can a smaller, more concentrated fanbase in hockey.

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