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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

RFA Signs with KHL for Two Years with NHL out (if better deal)

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Old
12-09-2012, 03:58 PM
  #26
Freudian
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I think it's more about setting a baseline for what Colorado can get away with paying him. I can't imagine he is trying to price himself out of what Colorado could play. Remember that his agent and Avs negotiated for a while before mutually agreeing to postpone it until after a new CBA was in place, so both sides should have a firm grasp on where they stand.

Avs are extremely good at keeping RFA salary down (Duchene at $3.5M/year and EJ at $3.75M/year) so I can easily see them trying to lowball O'Reilly. This move probably moves the discussion from insulting to realistic territory.

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12-09-2012, 04:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
The difference is KHL teams haven't been able to out bid all 30 nhl teams but they only have to outbid Colorado who have offered very little to ROR, if Colorado increases their offer at all then this tactic worked.
This is true. For one player in this circumstance, this can be a good tactic, presuming he got a competitive deal in the KHL (if not, however, that might actually give Colorado leverage). Obviously, though, I think it's absurd to expect this have a ripple effect through the RFA market as a whole. I can't think of a time when an NHL player who had offers on the table got a better deal in the KHL. The NHL isn't lowering salaries anywhere near enough for the KHL to be financially competitive.

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12-09-2012, 04:17 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
This is true. For one player in this circumstance, this can be a good tactic, presuming he got a competitive deal in the KHL (if not, however, that might actually give Colorado leverage). Obviously, though, I think it's absurd to expect this have a ripple effect through the RFA market as a whole. I can't think of a time when an NHL player who had offers on the table got a better deal in the KHL. The NHL isn't lowering salaries anywhere near enough for the KHL to be financially competitive.
I am not saying it will drive up RFA prices but if this were to get ROR an increase we could see several RFA's that feel underpaid try this. It at most raises the floor for RFA's.

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12-09-2012, 04:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I guess the point I was trying to make was that if there is another league that had the capital and level of interest to compete with the NHL for the same pool of players, than the NHL would have a stronger incentive to establish labor peace with it's union.
Considering the state of the PA I am not sure it would all that good for the fans: current PA leadership does not seem very interested in estalishing labour peace.
In the long run you are most definitely correct, good observation.

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12-09-2012, 04:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I am not saying it will drive up RFA prices but if this were to get ROR an increase we could see several RFA's that feel underpaid try this. It at most raises the floor for RFA's.
Maybe. If I'm a GM and my RFAs say if I don't give them a bigger raise they'll go the the KHL, I'm thinking, "they're threatening to commit career suicide for an extra million bucks." Is it a credible threat?

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12-09-2012, 04:28 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Maybe. If I'm a GM and my RFAs say if I don't give them a bigger raise they'll go the the KHL, I'm thinking, "they're threatening to commit career suicide for an extra million bucks." Is it a credible threat?
Again we don't know if it will be career suicide, what happens to ROR will let us know if its a viable option.

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12-09-2012, 04:38 PM
  #32
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I'm wondering if there was some encouragement from the PA for O'Reilly to sign this deal. During the dead puck era CBA, RFA's would hold out all the time to the detriment of the team but the overall benefit of the NHLPA because with no salary cap if you held out for a bigger contract then it meant the next guy could get a bigger payout as well.

Once we got a salary cap and linkage though these tactics stopped. Players negotiated within their own team structures, and while there may have been some individual cases of 'look what he's making over there' overall it didn't really matter.

So now with the NHL playing hardball in CBA negotiations this could be as much a message from the PA as it is O'Reilly looking out for his own best interest. I doubt much of the PA is really interested in playing for the KHL, but the enemy of your enemy is always a friend.

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12-09-2012, 04:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Interesting. Since the only team he can negotiate with are the Avalanche, this puts a ton of leverage on O'Reilly's side.
He's a RFA. He can negotiate a deal with anyone - Colorado just gets the chance to match it.

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12-09-2012, 04:45 PM
  #34
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So in NHL if you sign a RFA that is not your own, you owe draft picks etc, if i'm not mistaken.
How do the avalanche get compensation for O'Reilly from Metallurg?
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to RFA status. To me this seems like the Avs are getting royal screwed, with losing a player for nothing...like a UFA who doesn't sign.

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12-09-2012, 04:53 PM
  #35
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The situation can certainly give O'Reilly leverage but it's also possible that it was done this way so that O'Reilly has some protection if this lockout extends beyond one season while the Russian team in exchange finds some protection knowing that O'Reilly needs to meet certain conditions in order to be let out of his contract. It works well for both sides here.

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12-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by questhockey View Post
So in NHL if you sign a RFA that is not your own, you owe draft picks etc, if i'm not mistaken.
How do the avalanche get compensation for O'Reilly from Metallurg?
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to RFA status. To me this seems like the Avs are getting royal screwed, with losing a player for nothing...like a UFA who doesn't sign.
They don't get any compensation. Avalanche will retain O'Reilly's RFA rights but in order to get him back in the NHL within two years, the Avalanche will either sign him for a higher contract than his Russian contract, or they will have to trade his rights to another NHL team (and will get compensation from that NHL team). The team that buys over O'Reilly's rights will then have to offer a higher contract than his Russian contract otherwise he has to stay and complete his two years in Russian. It's risky for the Avs because if they don't put a higher offer on him, it'll be hard to trade his rights unless there's a team that wants him badly enough and knows that their offer will be higher than the Russian contract.

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12-09-2012, 05:00 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
They don't get any compensation. Avalanche will retain O'Reilly's RFA rights but in order to get him back in the NHL within two years, the Avalanche will either sign him for a higher contract than his Russian contract, or they will have to trade his rights to another NHL team (and will get compensation from that NHL team). The team that buys over O'Reilly's rights will then have to offer a higher contract than his Russian contract otherwise he has to stay and complete his two years in Russian. It's risky for the Avs because if they don't put a higher offer on him, it'll be hard to trade his rights unless there's a team that wants him badly enough and knows that their offer will be higher than the Russian contract.
Thanks, kinda thought along those lines, but wanted clarification. Cheers

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:15 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
If the out clause is written into the terms of the contract
No, the KHL doesn't let this type of out clause in players' contracts.
O'Reilly only has a mutual agreement with Metallurg.

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12-10-2012, 08:10 AM
  #39
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If the out clause is written into the terms of the contract, O'Reilly can take his case to court and force them to honor the deal,
but there is no such clause. Only verbal-not binding agreement.

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12-10-2012, 08:22 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by kedr View Post
No, the KHL doesn't let this type of out clause in players' contracts.
O'Reilly only has a mutual agreement with Metallurg.
And you know this - HOW?

I doubt he'd sign a contract there without such a clause - get real!

World's Worst Agent, is what his guy would be known as.

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12-10-2012, 08:25 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
And you know this - HOW?

I doubt he'd sign a contract there without such a clause - get real!

World's Worst Agent, is what his guy would be known as.
If you are a lawyer, you will understand it. If not, hire a lawyer

http://www.khl.ru/news/2012/12/10/49434.html
#88

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...268875&page=17
#423 a earlier posts

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12-10-2012, 08:32 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
If you are a lawyer, you will understand it. If not, hire a lawyer

http://www.khl.ru/news/2012/12/10/49434.html
#88

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...268875&page=17
#423 a earlier posts
Vorky has covered this topic to death, he knows how it works.

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12-10-2012, 08:35 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
This is news because...?

He signed a deal to play overseas, like 200 other players. Of course he'll return when the NHL starts again.
Nope, the others return if the Lockout ends. He returns if Colorado offer him a better contract than Metallurg.

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12-10-2012, 08:49 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Vorky has covered this topic to death, he knows how it works.
thx, it is a subject of my research at university. Labow law in sport, especially KHL and NHL.

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12-10-2012, 08:54 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Nope, the others return if the Lockout ends. He returns if Colorado offer him a better contract than Metallurg.
not correct. Magnitka can mutually terminate his contract even if he gets worse offer from Avs. It is only a statement for media, that Magnitka will release him if better offer. Both sides made such verbal deal. But it is not binding, Magnitka wont have to terminate the contract (if better offer), but will do it (according to other cases in past).

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Old
12-10-2012, 11:14 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
And you know this - HOW?
I doubt he'd sign a contract there without such a clause - get real!
I mean - verbal agreement.
Yes, this is s kind of risky deal for O'Reilly. But he had no choice, I think. The KHL doesn't let non-standart out clauses in their contracts.

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12-13-2012, 04:12 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I can't imagine it will be something that'll be used in the future. Most RFA situations sort themselves out by the time training camp starts. A lockout year is a special case. Also, there are several risks to it. You could get injured. You might get greedy and the NHL team will let you stay in Russia for years.
You sound like you're implying Russia is a terrible place. I'd venture to guess it's not any worse than a lot of US states.

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Old
12-13-2012, 08:40 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
You sound like you're implying Russia is a terrible place. I'd venture to guess it's not any worse than a lot of US states.
I was thinking this too after a few of the comments here. "Stuck in Russia", "career suicide"... perhaps the KHL isn't quite the NHL, but it isn't some far-flung beer league. For a lot of players, it probably makes more sense to star in Russia than to be a mid-tier player in North America. The culture barrier is the biggest challenge, but that hasn't stopped Russians from moving westward over the past 20 years.

If O'Reilly finds a better situation in Russia, good for him. It kinda sucks for the Avalanche, but then again they still have complete control of the situation if they really want him.

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12-13-2012, 10:18 AM
  #49
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If this starts to happen a lot, shouldn't they allow NHL teams to adjust to this under the cap? Lets say NHL Team A offers Player X $1M and then KHL Team B offers him $5M out of nowhere with that clause, and then Team A offers $6M and he takes the deal. It's not fair that this random KHL brings up the market price for a player in the NHL.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi View Post
You sound like you're implying Russia is a terrible place. I'd venture to guess it's not any worse than a lot of US states.
For a Canadian player, it is a terrible place compared to playing in NHL. The player conditions are worse and living in a country where you don't speak the language basically sucks.

The KHL is only an option for players that can't find a job in the NHL. That's the case for Swedes and Finns too. Only some Russians and Czechs may have it as their preferred place to play hockey.

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