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2012 CBA/Lockout talk, It's not looking good VI

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:24 AM
  #526
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I'm pro owner but no "replacement" players. Thank You

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12-10-2012, 06:27 AM
  #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
Not really. The team would be half prospects like Spooner and Knight, and then guys like Mottau or Exelby who have played in the NHL but the phone calls from NHL teams have stopped and they are on the periphery.

The rosters wouldn't look that bad when you add in the fact that at least half of the players union would jump ship immediately and join teams.

If it happens I would just like to see players who ran their mouth blackballed.

I am not pro owner but if they want to give me a cheaper product and stick it to the whiney ungrateful players that is fine by me.

Most of these guys are just stupid kids who have spent 5 hours a day their entire lives in hockey rinks and should be working for minimum wage or close.


The players could have taken a deal last week and given the fans hockey before Christmas. It was more important that they let Fehr win a PR battle. I'd love to see Jacobs and friends screw them hard. Make a maximum salary in the new NHL something like 2-3 mil.
I don't see it happening with ahl players.. if there was going to be scabs they'd be the north americans playing overseas before this season and some others. I don't see it happening at all since some of those guys wouldn't want that type of backlash if this happened. I mean look at some of the baseball players thats crossed the lines back in 94.. they were shunned.. and i think those guys we're in the right.

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12-10-2012, 06:46 AM
  #528
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Americans won't watch a league that is not the best.

The only league that might be slightly immune to that is the NFL, because scab players wouldn't stop gambling and fantasy leagues.

But even the NFL would be looking at a dramatic decreases.

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12-10-2012, 06:59 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
Not really. The team would be half prospects like Spooner and Knight, and then guys like Mottau or Exelby who have played in the NHL but the phone calls from NHL teams have stopped and they are on the periphery.

The rosters wouldn't look that bad when you add in the fact that at least half of the players union would jump ship immediately and join teams.

If it happens I would just like to see players who ran their mouth blackballed.

I am not pro owner but if they want to give me a cheaper product and stick it to the whiney ungrateful players that is fine by me.

Most of these guys are just stupid kids who have spent 5 hours a day their entire lives in hockey rinks and should be working for minimum wage or close.


The players could have taken a deal last week and given the fans hockey before Christmas. It was more important that they let Fehr win a PR battle. I'd love to see Jacobs and friends screw them hard. Make a maximum salary in the new NHL something like 2-3 mil.
The players have made every concession during this lockout.

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12-10-2012, 07:03 AM
  #530
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Also, NBC would say goodbye.

Nobody would air those games. And even locally, who would advertise during a hockey game that might score a 0.5 rating?

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12-10-2012, 07:17 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Also, NBC would say goodbye.

Nobody would air those games. And even locally, who would advertise during a hockey game that might score a 0.5 rating?
OK, so I'll give you NBC deciding they might air Equestrian or Skiing Sunday afternoons.

Do you think VS refuses to air NHL games?

How about NESN? They refuse to air the B's? Now yah I guess the Sox won't get bumped to the alternate for the B's in the playoffs but that is about it. They'll show the games instead of Charlie Moore reruns.

And with NBC they signed a deal knowing the lockout could take place. I am sure the powers at be would assure them that the talent would slowly trickle back into the NHL.


Stick it to the players. The best deal they are going to get is on the table and they don't want to give the fans who pay their salaries hockey in time for Christmas and want Donny Fehrs ego to not take a blow.

I want to drink and go to playoff games this spring I am cool with replacement players and watching the primadonnas get screwed.

These guys are fiddling while Rome burns.

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12-10-2012, 07:20 AM
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
Not really. The team would be half prospects like Spooner and Knight, and then guys like Mottau or Exelby who have played in the NHL but the phone calls from NHL teams have stopped and they are on the periphery.

The rosters wouldn't look that bad when you add in the fact that at least half of the players union would jump ship immediately and join teams.

If it happens I would just like to see players who ran their mouth blackballed.

I am not pro owner but if they want to give me a cheaper product and stick it to the whiney ungrateful players that is fine by me.

Most of these guys are just stupid kids who have spent 5 hours a day their entire lives in hockey rinks and should be working for minimum wage or close.


The players could have taken a deal last week and given the fans hockey before Christmas. It was more important that they let Fehr win a PR battle. I'd love to see Jacobs and friends screw them hard. Make a maximum salary in the new NHL something like 2-3 mil.
Scab players would not be NHL prospects like Spooner. They'd be overaged guys hanging on in the ECHL or playing in lower tier European Leagues. And no, I would not bother to go all the way to Boston to watch them when I can stay home and watch AHL games for 20 bucks.

And the notion that half the players' union would jump ship is an uninformed fan's fantasy.

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12-10-2012, 07:32 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
OK, so I'll give you NBC deciding they might air Equestrian or Skiing Sunday afternoons.

Do you think VS refuses to air NHL games?

How about NESN? They refuse to air the B's? Now yah I guess the Sox won't get bumped to the alternate for the B's in the playoffs but that is about it. They'll show the games instead of Charlie Moore reruns.

And with NBC they signed a deal knowing the lockout could take place. I am sure the powers at be would assure them that the talent would slowly trickle back into the NHL.


Stick it to the players. The best deal they are going to get is on the table and they don't want to give the fans who pay their salaries hockey in time for Christmas and want Donny Fehrs ego to not take a blow.

I want to drink and go to playoff games this spring I am cool with replacement players and watching the primadonnas get screwed.

These guys are fiddling while Rome burns.
No one would watch.

Don't fall into the trap of forgetting this place is called the Lunatic Fringe. And I bet even a majority of us wouldn't actually watch scabs.

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12-10-2012, 07:36 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
No one would watch.

Don't fall into the trap of forgetting this place is called the Lunatic Fringe. And I bet even a majority of us wouldn't actually watch scabs.
More people will watch than did in 2007. As more NHLers return more fans will increasingly watch. The Garden won't be as empty as it was 5 years ago and ticket prices won't be much lower.

They won't be glued to KHL streams at 3am to see "superior" hockey.

You sort of made your point with the Lunatic Fringe reference. While the majority won't be pleased many of them are likely to watch scabs in the spoked B than the Celtics or even BC/BU.

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12-10-2012, 07:39 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Americans won't watch a league that is not the best.

The only league that might be slightly immune to that is the NFL, because scab players wouldn't stop gambling and fantasy leagues.

But even the NFL would be looking at a dramatic decreases.
They won't watch it if it's not the best in North America, and unless a new league started up (not likely) it would be the best. Wanting to see the best is exactly why the NHL will always have a following. There are no competitors, and even if the KHL got all the current NHL players, they would have to expand to the US and Canada in order to garner enough interest here to usurp the local leagues.

Hockey fans will still be hockey fans. Young players just coming up would still flock to the NHL and many current players would come back as well as even at a fraction of the salaries the NHL currently pays out they'd still be the highest paid and most well treated hockey players in the world.

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12-10-2012, 07:42 AM
  #536
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I have ZERO interest in watching replacement players. Maybe we can find 30 replacement owners, no business experience required.

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12-10-2012, 07:50 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
They won't watch it if it's not the best in North America, and unless a new league started up (not likely) it would be the best. Wanting to see the best is exactly why the NHL will always have a following. There are no competitors, and even if the KHL got all the current NHL players, they would have to expand to the US and Canada in order to garner enough interest here to usurp the local leagues.

Hockey fans will still be hockey fans. Young players just coming up would still flock to the NHL and many current players would come back as well as even at a fraction of the salaries the NHL currently pays out they'd still be the highest paid and most well treated hockey players in the world.
This must be why MLS soccer is huge.

Also, the NHL would probably have to fold after the triple damages they pay in an anti-trust loss to the old players. This wouldn't be the USFL suing the NFL, this owuld be the best players suing the best league. This is why decertification scared the NFL and NBA enough to get a deal done within weeks of it happening.

This scenario is just not realistic. And the fact so many are eager to see the best players in the world no longer play is very strange to me. I have my theories why, but it certainly is not going to help this conversation.

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12-10-2012, 07:56 AM
  #538
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The League would take a hit for a few years. But, over time, it can ramp up the talent with an Entry Draft and recruiting Europeans. And there are surely going to be players who break ranks with the Union.

Look at it positively, while the quality of play would diminish for a time, ticket prices will drop.

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12-10-2012, 08:08 AM
  #539
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
This must be why MLS soccer is huge.

Also, the NHL would probably have to fold after the triple damages they pay in an anti-trust loss to the old players. This wouldn't be the USFL suing the NFL, this owuld be the best players suing the best league. This is why decertification scared the NFL and NBA enough to get a deal done within weeks of it happening.

This scenario is just not realistic. And the fact so many are eager to see the best players in the world no longer play is very strange to me. I have my theories why, but it certainly is not going to help this conversation.
Exactly. It's a loopy scenario, and as insane as the owners are, you have to think they're not that epically stupid.

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12-10-2012, 08:14 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
This must be why MLS soccer is huge.

Also, the NHL would probably have to fold after the triple damages they pay in an anti-trust loss to the old players. This wouldn't be the USFL suing the NFL, this owuld be the best players suing the best league. This is why decertification scared the NFL and NBA enough to get a deal done within weeks of it happening.

This scenario is just not realistic. And the fact so many are eager to see the best players in the world no longer play is very strange to me. I have my theories why, but it certainly is not going to help this conversation.
I'll help you out on the reasons.

1. These players nearly all earn more in a year than I will in a lifetime.

2. They know there isn't a better deal coming so Fehrs ego is more important than the fans and they'll make sure they get a "bone".

3. I'd love to hear that someone like PRust is giving bjs on the street for crack after not playing another second of NHL hockey after he mocked a fan for only makin 40k a year.



There is ton of blame on both sides. Both deserve to lose. I'd love to see the players really take a serious kick the the nuts on this and see some hockey players who are humble make a little money and play in NHL barns.

We should all been able to be looking forward to opening night last week but Fehrs ego is more important.

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Old
12-10-2012, 08:19 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
This must be why MLS soccer is huge.

Also, the NHL would probably have to fold after the triple damages they pay in an anti-trust loss to the old players. This wouldn't be the USFL suing the NFL, this owuld be the best players suing the best league. This is why decertification scared the NFL and NBA enough to get a deal done within weeks of it happening.

This scenario is just not realistic. And the fact so many are eager to see the best players in the world no longer play is very strange to me. I have my theories why, but it certainly is not going to help this conversation.
The popularity of MLS is more likely due to the fact that they are just starting to grow the sport in Canada and the US. The league is what, 12 years old? But if you want to reach like that all the power to you.

Also, you make a rather large assumption that NHL players would win any such anti-trust lawsuit. That's hardly a guarantee which is why it's not a path that ever gets followed through with.

I also think you're reaching on decertification, if it truly scared both the NFL and NBA the players wouldn't have been the ones to lose the ever major concession in both CBA's. Was there a "we agree to everything the owners wanted but in case anyone is wondering we won because we decertified" statement that came out or something? Both went to the 50/50 split the owners wanted and the PA's rebuked. Why not just save every one some time and give the owners what they want now if that's the plan?

I honestly agree though, not realistic. The players won't be moving to Russia to play hockey for a pittance, they're hoping the owners cave a bit more on their demands but make no mistake they know exactly what they have in the NHL. Even if they give into every owner demand there isn't a hockey league in the world that can come anywhere close to the NHL in terms of salary, player benefits, and marketability. I'm just honestly surprised at how many think players in the NHL are irreplaceable. It happens every day and the NHL continues to go on.

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12-10-2012, 08:32 AM
  #542
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Not only would I watch the scabs but I would buy a season ticket package. Got to support my homeboy Jeremy J.


I watched Be a Bruin. Some of those dudes would fill in the B's roster for sure. Some of them are local boys that we could all get behind


This Bruins scab team would most definitely be in cup contention

BTibbs18 would win the Hart Trophy


Not trying to lay blame but if you have to point fingers I would start with the NHLPA

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12-10-2012, 08:49 AM
  #543
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The players have made every concession during this lockout.
I disagree with this statement. The players had an AMAZING deal during the last CBA, & made out like bandits. Now the owners just want to make it fair for both sides. "50/50"... similar to other major sports leagues.

My friend 'Jack' has an uncle 'Tony' who migrated to the U.S. from a country where he was allowed 6 wives. He was very pissed off when our government wouldnt let him keep all 6,, he even attempted to swing a deal giving up 2 of them. The U.S. wouldnt allow it even though he made the concession. Fair is fair.

Players enjoyed a doozie of a CBA for the past 5 or 6 years, now it's time to get back to reality.

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12-10-2012, 08:49 AM
  #544
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The owners have all the leverage and they apparently intend on using it, to some degree because they haven’t forgotten the way it was, the way it went.

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12-10-2012, 08:53 AM
  #545
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They have all the dates blocked off and ready to go all over the league- 48 games; heard they even built in for the charade the other day....figure by mid January at the latest but really want to somehow get the Christmas money before its all gone

I went thru this in 1994-5 and that was the old Garden and pretty sure I went to everyone of them- it had such an effect on me I forgot about that lockout and I have a great memory

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12-10-2012, 08:58 AM
  #546
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I disagree with this statement. The players had an AMAZING deal during the last CBA, & made out like bandits. Now the owners just want to make it fair for both sides. "50/50"... similar to other major sports leagues.

My friend 'Jack' has an uncle 'Tony' who migrated to the U.S. from a country where he was allowed 6 wives. He was very pissed off when our government wouldnt let him keep all 6,, he even attempted to swing a deal giving up 2 of them. The U.S. wouldnt allow it even though he made the concession. Fair is fair.

Players enjoyed a doozie of a CBA for the past 5 or 6 years, now it's time to get back to reality.
The last CBA the owners got the cap, and a 24% roll back. That's what the owners wanted, but here we are again.

I have no faith the next deal with will work for the owners either, because it appears they don't know what a good deal is.

Why would Tony want 6 wives anyway..

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12-10-2012, 09:38 AM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
The last CBA the owners got the cap, and a 24% roll back. That's what the owners wanted, but here we are again.

I have no faith the next deal with will work for the owners either, because it appears they don't know what a good deal is.

Why would Tony want 6 wives anyway..
The cap went from 39 mil to 70.2 mil in what 6 years? The players to a man would play tomorrow with the old CBA and all I heard was how they were railroaded with that one.

If the owners have no idea how to make a deal, then why not sign up for it for 10 years? Obviously it will benefit the players, right?

Seems like the owners want to control the handful of idiot owners / GM's more then they do the players.

Liek Recchi says, sign the deal they will find ways to pay the players..they always do.

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12-10-2012, 09:48 AM
  #548
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The problem would become how to take the "Bruins" seriously when Chara, Bergy,Seguin etc are elsewhere and Trent Whitfield and Joe Schmo are wearing the B.
Joe Schmo gets a bad rap due to his draft postition.

If he were a 5th rounder everybody would be preaching patience with the kid.

In all seriousness, there's already AHL and college hockey which are just as good if not better than a brief replacement league would be.

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12-10-2012, 09:51 AM
  #549
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The last CBA the owners got the cap, and a 24% roll back. That's what the owners wanted, but here we are again.

I have no faith the next deal with will work for the owners either, because it appears they don't know what a good deal is.

Why would Tony want 6 wives anyway..
The last CBA was a step in the right direction, not a solution. Player contracts were so far out of whack that the NHL was no longer economically viable, teams had to be sold and moved, poorer teams served as feeder teams for the rich ones. Getting the deal in place that literally EVERYONE in the NHL benefited from cost the NHL an entire season as players were being asked to make all of the concessions then as well. Apparently the players lost, even though they are now making more money then they ever have. Even then, players, agents, and certain owners found a way to exploit that CBA to get the hefty, guaranteed amounts players and agents still demanded. The difference being that because of the CBA those contracts now had to be guaranteed over an even longer period of time in order to get the cap hit to a workable range. The NHL went from 1 contract over 6 years in length to 90 contracts 6 years or more putting even more liability on the owners. The parity that attracted so many fans back to the game was completely gone at that point as once again, the front loading mechanism of the new salary structures allowed rich teams to put the financial hurt on the others driving salaries even higher. A loophole that should have been automatically closed come CBA negotiation time but that is now deemed as a players right for some reason.

When you use something that's broken as a starting point, things often just get a little bit less broken. That's where the NHL is now. The players starting point is the last CBA that saw over half the NHL teams losing money. The owners starting point is an economically viable CBA that will see most teams make money. The players will continue to rake in heinous amounts of money in either scenario, but in the latter the NHL makes out better as a whole.

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12-10-2012, 10:04 AM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
The last CBA the owners got the cap, and a 24% roll back. That's what the owners wanted, but here we are again.

I have no faith the next deal with will work for the owners either, because it appears they don't know what a good deal is.

Why would Tony want 6 wives anyway..
The players are the ones that proposed the roll back last time. But either way, that CBA did work out as planned IMO. The revenues have increased drastically, which I'm guessing is what the owners want. Now this time around they need to get a bigger piece of the pie. You can't blame them, the revenue is their, they just need to get more of it the be more successful.

At this point, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that what the players are fighting for(shorter CBA and contract length) is worth it. Or how any fan could say that they would like to have a shorter CBA.

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