HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Ryan O'Reilly Signs With Magnitogorsk (2-yr deal)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-08-2012, 01:31 PM
  #126
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 4,394
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Just because I'm a fan of the players, I'd be interested in Josi + Watson + something like a 1st for O'Reilly + 3rd deal, but that's probably asking too much. It's realistically what his value would probably be if the NHL were playing atm and Sherman isn't going to move him for less given his potential.

But we really don't need prospect dmen and Josi is still a couple years away from being ideal for the role he'd be acquired for. We have temporary plugs while Siemens/Gaunce develop.
I disagree, Josi will become a very good defenseman right when we become playoff contenders. Gaunce I think needs 1 more year of seasoning in the AHL, while Siemens is a wildcard determining how well he progresses. I can see him spending only 1 year in the AHL, but I can also see him spend 2-4 years as well.

S E P H is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:40 PM
  #127
fredrikstad
Registered User
 
fredrikstad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Fredrikstad, Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,163
vCash: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Yep... the Avalanche organization is notorious for trading players that drive a hard bargain. The Avs might sign him to a deal, but he will be shipped out within a few months, especially with having Stastny and Duchene as top 6 centers already.

IMO it will probably be a deal ROR + Elliot/Barrie (whoever the Avs like less at the moment) for a young top pairing potential D and a prospect center.
You can always pick the minute eating defensman Jonas Holos from Swedish SEL again.


Last edited by fredrikstad: 12-24-2012 at 01:49 AM.
fredrikstad is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:43 PM
  #128
Jaymond Flurrie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Ok, so technically Josh owns the team, but Stan is still the actual owner.

Jaymond Flurrie is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 01:44 PM
  #129
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,146
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I disagree, Josi will become a very good defenseman right when we become playoff contenders. Gaunce I think needs 1 more year of seasoning in the AHL, while Siemens is a wildcard determining how well he progresses. I can see him spending only 1 year in the AHL, but I can also see him spend 2-4 years as well.
Josi is still a couple years away from being ideal as a #2/3 dman... what's wrong with that statement?

That's what we'd need him for and he's not there yet. Unless you think he's already at that point, because we're not playoff contenders for 2-3 years either.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 02:54 PM
  #130
NHL33*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 7,873
vCash: 500
Josi is a top-4 defenseman now, if we had to move O'Reilly (I'd trade Duchene before him but in context of this scenario...) then that would be a more than acceptable deal; Josi will be a special defenseman.

NHL33* is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:09 PM
  #131
S E P H
@Krzysztof_WHL
 
S E P H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Avs Country!
Country: Poland
Posts: 4,394
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Josi is still a couple years away from being ideal as a #2/3 dman... what's wrong with that statement?

That's what we'd need him for and he's not there yet. Unless you think he's already at that point, because we're not playoff contenders for 2-3 years either.
It sounded like you didn't want Josi because he is 2-3 years away and Gaunce/Siemens will be ready/close at that time.

S E P H is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 07:26 PM
  #132
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,146
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
It sounded like you didn't want Josi because he is 2-3 years away and Gaunce/Siemens will be ready/close at that time.
I was moreso playing devil's advocate really. We don't really need more prospects and Josi is still a prospect, not a sure thing. I like Josi as well and think he can become a #2/3, but I'd rather not roll the dice without some solid backup plan which would be the other pieces I added.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:00 PM
  #133
Drizzt1
Registered User
 
Drizzt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 359
vCash: 500
Why is everyone just assuming a contract becomes more beneficial on dollar terms alone? O'Reilly may believe a 3-4 year is the improvement he wants, so the $$$$ discussion may be a moot point.

Just a different point of view is all.

Drizzt1 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 10:06 PM
  #134
Drizzt1
Registered User
 
Drizzt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 359
vCash: 500
Also, would be great if the official site could update us all, so rumor and innuendo doesn't grow.

Drizzt1 is offline  
Old
12-08-2012, 11:17 PM
  #135
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,948
vCash: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Well I hope Radar fans aren't getting used to him being around. Radar agent just gave him about the worst advice ever if he if wanted to be part of the Avs long term.

1 thing all agents should know about the Avs by now is you don't hold them hostage unless you want out.

They'll sign him and trade him, O'Reilly is as good as gone now that he pulled this stunt. Sorry O'Reilly fans.

It really bugs me that O'Reilly let one good year statistically go to his head. Now all of sudden he thinks he is big time and that he can hold out and make absurd contract demands. Let be realistic it would be hard to justify O'Reilly making more than Duchene. And hypothetically if he and his agent were asking for a similar dollar amount to what Duchene's contract is then a deal would have been made. Now with this signing its clear that O'Reilly was asking at minimum 4 mil per, probably more which would be absurd for one good year offensively.

I for one am not worried about it, hopefully O'Reilly will be traded for a quality young dman. Then next year you would still have Duchene and Staz in the middle. And hopefully by the following year Duchene will have proven proven everyone wrong, Staz will be Staz and then we could add Sgarbossa as the 2nd line center and put Staz and his defensively responsible self on the 3rd line.

Overall really disappointed with O'Reilly he made a terrible decision where its clear either he was fed bad info by his agent or he let his own arrogance get involved. Either way I expected better from him.
That was my initial reaction too but I've had a day to think about it some more and there are things that just don't add up for me. I think O'Reilly is too smart of a kid to make this kind of mistake (regardless of agent). What most likely has happened is that RoR signed a contract to ensure a FLOOR/MINIMUM of say ($3M or $3.5M) that he knows the Avs won't have a problem matching based on the negotiations from last summer.

RoR is just too much of a character kid, too much of a team-first guy to take a risk (no matter how slight) that the Avs would be pissed and leave him there while all the other NHLers come back from Europe. Can you imagine the lockout ends and everyone goes to the mini-camp but he stays there all while the rest of his Avs teammates are all excited about the season?

RoR has a GREAT situation going on in Colorado and there's no real reason for this to get ugly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
I fear the worst.

The timing is just too messed up.
Why sign such a contract now? Did he know that this weeks negotiations would go the way they did?
Even if he did, there would have been no harm in waitingfor 3 or 4 more weeks until the season is cancelled and than sign that damn contract.
It just looks bad. Obvious powerplay move.
And the Avs don't respond all to kindly to things like that IIRC. I expect that he will not spend much of his next contract with the Avs (first few months only and than get traded for good value)

Why Radar why?

If Lacroix really ships him off , I just hope that we do not trade him to Toronto.....
Actually, the timing of this contract is probably perfect. As others and I have alluded to, the lockout is close to ending and apparently, O'Reilly's situation is going to need 10 days or so of paperwork to sort out before he can head over there.

I don't believe ROR will play even 1 game with that team. The lockout will end and he'll sign a good contract with the Avs. It might be slightly more than they were 'hoping' to pay but in the end, both sides will be happy with the deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Also, would be great if the official site could update us all, so rumor and innuendo doesn't grow.
Unfortunately, the KHL does NOT disclose salary information.

Bender is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 04:42 AM
  #136
HockeyFan100
Welcome to COL!
 
HockeyFan100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,773
vCash: 500
I would understand a 1-yr deal because the whole season can be canceled, but a 2-yr deal? What? I don't get it. I swear if the Avs lose him...

HockeyFan100 is online now  
Old
12-09-2012, 07:27 AM
  #137
Ceremony
Moderator
Transcendence
 
Ceremony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 72,519
vCash: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Also, would be great if the official site could update us all, so rumor and innuendo doesn't grow.
To be fair, I don't think any team is acknowledging players who're playing in different leagues unless it's the AHL. Brush the whole thing under the carpet seems to be the case.

__________________
ďItís embarrassing. Iím embarrassed to be here right now. Itís not even funny. And itís just embarrassing, the way we, you know, the energy we have in the room and the way we approach practices and the way we approach this game. Itís not how youíre going to win any games in this league." - Jean-Sebastien Giguere, April 8 2013
Ceremony is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 08:36 AM
  #138
Pierce Hawthorne
Formerly Avsare1
 
Pierce Hawthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Caverns of Draconis
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,692
vCash: 500
Yea I have to say, I dont like Oreillys chances of sticking with the Avs much longer after all of this. Managment does not like when players step out of line and do something bold. Look at Quincey last year, and other guys in the past..

I really hope Oreilly and Sherman were talking before all this, and something was agreed on between the two that we just dont know about, but if they didnt talk, Oreilly will be gone within a year IMO.

As for the return on Oreilly, I would much rather add to Oreilly and get a good young Top pairing Dman then get someone with the potential to be that like Gardiner or Josi.

Something like Oreilly + Prospect for McDonagh/M Staal/Subban/Hedman/etc.

Id be really interested in Kulikov actually. Wonder what the cost would be for him? I would do Oreilly + one of Elliott/Gaunce.

Pierce Hawthorne is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 10:45 AM
  #139
Ceremony
Moderator
Transcendence
 
Ceremony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 72,519
vCash: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Something like Oreilly + Prospect for McDonagh/M Staal/Subban/Hedman/etc.
The + to get any of them wouldn't be worth it.

Ceremony is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 03:41 PM
  #140
Avs71
Registered User
 
Avs71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,116
vCash: 500
I didn't realize that in order for his out-clause to work, his contract with the Avs has to be worth more.

Quote:
"It has been agreed by mutual consent that if Ryan is offered a contract on more lucrative terms in the National Hockey League, Metallurg will not interfere in that contract being concluded."
-CBS

If people here are seriously expecting O'Reilly back with the Avs then they better hope that contract is ~3 million per year. I have a feeling it is more.

Pretty crafty on his/agent's part. I'm sure O'Reilly will enjoy that guaranteed minimum contract amount, wherever that ends up being. Very hard to say how the Avs respond to this.

Fowler, Giordano, Kulikov, Hamonic, M. Staal, Del Zotto, Ekman-Larsson, Hedman, or Gardiner would be a fine basis to a deal, with something added on to the respective side that needs it in certain deals.

Avs71 is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 05:51 PM
  #141
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
This thread: A whole lot of hand wringing over nothing.

Huis Clos* is offline  
Old
12-09-2012, 11:15 PM
  #142
Goulet17
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,482
vCash: 500
Everyone is hung up on this whole "more lucrative" language, but that may be a relatively easy hurdle.

Even if O'Reilly has a KHL contract paying him $5 million next season, if he signs a three year $10 million dollar deal with the Avs, it is more lucrative. I just don't believe that it will be a significantly hurdle of the Avs are negotiating in good faith. If it is so something more restrictive, I think the next move that we see is that O'Reilly fires his agent, because I don't think he intends to spend the next year and a half of his life in Russia.

Goulet17 is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 12:19 AM
  #143
Cooperman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hek View Post
This thread: A whole lot of hand wringing over nothing.
Pretty well said. I've been on this board for more than 5 years, and this is by far one of the most "delirium moment" I have witnessed. Pretty entertainning though. My goodness !!!

Cooperman is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 01:05 AM
  #144
Nihiliste
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Nihiliste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,417
vCash: 542
Not really sure what to think of this due to lack of precedent and lack of information on how negotiations were going prior to the lockout, current salary, transfer agreements, laws, etc that will come into play.

I am fairly certain that O'reilly wouldn't have signed this deal without being absolutely certain that he would be back as soon as the lockout was over, and to me that means not just being released but also signing a contract that he knows the Avs would be comfortable matching.

As Drizzt pointed out, the absolute $ figure doesn't have to be the only thing that would make an NHL contract "more lucrative" or better, or whatever the term that was used.

If this lockout extends the whole year it could be an interesting learning experience for RoR.

Nihiliste is online now  
Old
12-10-2012, 04:22 AM
  #145
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,263
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
I didn't realize that in order for his out-clause to work, his contract with the Avs has to be worth more.


-CBS

If people here are seriously expecting O'Reilly back with the Avs then they better hope that contract is ~3 million per year. I have a feeling it is more.

Pretty crafty on his/agent's part. I'm sure O'Reilly will enjoy that guaranteed minimum contract amount, wherever that ends up being. Very hard to say how the Avs respond to this.

Fowler, Giordano, Kulikov, Hamonic, M. Staal, Del Zotto, Ekman-Larsson, Hedman, or Gardiner would be a fine basis to a deal, with something added on to the respective side that needs it in certain deals.
Those teams are unlikely to trade those young established players. You are probably looking at some good pieces in return, but being in a bit of a compromised bargaining position (if the Avs were hypothetically trying to move O'Reilly), the likely return would most likely include blue chip prospects/top picks instead.

Just my opinion man.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 06:48 AM
  #146
ABasin
SelkeCaliber Defense
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I disagree, Josi will become a very good defenseman right when we become playoff contenders. Gaunce I think needs 1 more year of seasoning in the AHL,
A lot of us (myself included) have been talking about Gaunce "needing a bit more seasoning in the AHL" for a few years now. Will another year - or three years - of seasoning do for him what he needs to be a NHL player? Or is he simply an AHL-caliber player?

I'm torn between doing a bunch of wishful thinking, and the ghost of Johnny Boychuk past.

ABasin is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 08:39 AM
  #147
Avs71
Registered User
 
Avs71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Those teams are unlikely to trade those young established players. You are probably looking at some good pieces in return, but being in a bit of a compromised bargaining position (if the Avs were hypothetically trying to move O'Reilly), the likely return would most likely include blue chip prospects/top picks instead.

Just my opinion man.
Some of those players like Hedman/Staal, yes I'd agree. O'Reilly wouldn't be traded for picks/prospects. It would more than likely be a hockey trade like the Johnson-Stewart trade. If it came down to picks and prospects I'd bet the Avs would just keep O'Reilly, regardless of how mad they are at him. I'd bet Calgary would look long and hard at something based around Giordano and O'Reilly. Although that has Drury-Morris 2.0 written all over it.

Avs71 is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 09:06 AM
  #148
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,948
vCash: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Josi is a top-4 defenseman now, if we had to move O'Reilly (I'd trade Duchene before him but in context of this scenario...) then that would be a more than acceptable deal; Josi will be a special defenseman.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Having Weber & Suter ahead of you on the depth chart can have a tendency of making you look a bit better than you actually are. Don't get me wrong, he's a good d-man and has a 'chance' at being a top pairing guy but that's not a certainty.

I feel he's a bit overrated by Avs fans around here...not as much as Alex Urbom from 2-3 years ago but in that same kind of manner. (what is the future superstar king Urbom up to these days? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Some of those players like Hedman/Staal, yes I'd agree. O'Reilly wouldn't be traded for picks/prospects. It would more than likely be a hockey trade like the Johnson-Stewart trade. If it came down to picks and prospects I'd bet the Avs would just keep O'Reilly, regardless of how mad they are at him. I'd bet Calgary would look long and hard at something based around Giordano and O'Reilly. Although that has Drury-Morris 2.0 written all over it.
I would do that in a nanosecond.

The funny part is when you try to work it out for both sides, it just leaves a giant gaping whole where the player used to be.

Bender is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 09:44 AM
  #149
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,263
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Some of those players like Hedman/Staal, yes I'd agree. O'Reilly wouldn't be traded for picks/prospects. It would more than likely be a hockey trade like the Johnson-Stewart trade. If it came down to picks and prospects I'd bet the Avs would just keep O'Reilly, regardless of how mad they are at him. I'd bet Calgary would look long and hard at something based around Giordano and O'Reilly. Although that has Drury-Morris 2.0 written all over it.
Giordano could be Calgary's best player in their opinion and the opinion of many. Unfortunately most of the time these types of things (not saying this is that, we dont know either way AFAIK) usually produce a less than great return for the team that has to move the disgruntled player. Most of the time it is a quality for quantity type deal. Im sure and my example meant to express that the "blue chip" prospect type player that the Avs may get in return would be NHL ready.

Like a Brodin, Granlund, Klefbom, Jeff Schultz type player. Throw in a 2nd or a 3rd and a B type prospect and there you go.

Similar speculation could be floated Montreal's way in regards to Subban who is another high profile rfa with no deal atm. He hasnt signed a multi-year deal in Europe though.

Maybe there is something there that would benefit both teams?

Would that be a straight up deal? If not who would have to add and what would they have to add?

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
12-10-2012, 12:07 PM
  #150
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,487
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
A lot of us (myself included) have been talking about Gaunce "needing a bit more seasoning in the AHL" for a few years now. Will another year - or three years - of seasoning do for him what he needs to be a NHL player? Or is he simply an AHL-caliber player?

I'm torn between doing a bunch of wishful thinking, and the ghost of Johnny Boychuk past.
Cam needs to be given an opportunity to show what he can do in the NHL, he did enough already in the AHL.

Ivan13 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.