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*OFFICIAL* Kitchener Rangers 2012-13 Season Thread

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:57 PM
  #951
CharlieGirl
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Originally Posted by Luvtowatch View Post
Very ugly! Lucky Palazzese is playing so well.
Definitely, but Frankie deserved a lot better than he got last night.

Frustrating to hear Murphy state that, in his mind, the play that resulted in the tying goal was offside. Maybe it was, but you learn in peewee hockey to play to the whistle. As a result, Murphy was nowhere to be seen, and Kitchener peed away one point while giving a division rival two points.

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12-05-2012, 02:41 PM
  #952
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Definitely, but Frankie deserved a lot better than he got last night.

Frustrating to hear Murphy state that, in his mind, the play that resulted in the tying goal was offside. Maybe it was, but you learn in peewee hockey to play to the whistle. As a result, Murphy was nowhere to be seen, and Kitchener peed away one point while giving a division rival two points.
thats the hard part about last nights game. Its really a three point swing by that last minute goal. cant be given those up to a rival you are fighting for home ice playoff advantage with.

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12-05-2012, 03:29 PM
  #953
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Bailey out 2 weeks with injured sternum, and Rieder's fractured foot may keep him out of the World Juniors as per Josh Brown

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12-05-2012, 11:07 PM
  #954
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Rangers had a ton of injuries last year -- it was beyond ridiculous. This year is looking worse, with less depth.

I think Spott needs to seriously consider being a seller at the deadline. The return on Murphy/Gibson/Reider (although he might be tougher to move) could set the team up nicely for a year or two from now, if he plays his cards right.

Last year was the year to go for it. We were better and had we added a guy or two, we may have finished ahead of London in the conference, meaning an easier route to the 3rd round, meaning maybe avoiding some of the injuries that decimated us for round three.

But whatever.

You're right about selling. Going into the playoffs, we need two above average forwards (don't have to be superstars, but a couple of top sixers to strengthen our top nine) and a genuine #2 d-man to put us past London and Owen Sound's current rosters ... and that's before they make any moves.

Do we have the assets for that? I don't believe so. A 2nd and a 3rd between now and 2017 alone won't get it done so we'll have to deal most of our quality youth and hope we can outbid other contenders.

To stand pat or just tweak the roster, hope the scoring comes around, and expect Gibson to carry us on his back through the long playoff grind won't make us a favorite. Therefore, if Spott can't transform this roster into a favorite in this conference, I'm all for selling.

Gibson, Murphy, Rieder, and don't forget Puempel, would not only set up a year or two from now, it would set us up for the next 4 to 5 years. Those 4 players, could/should bring us approximately 9 or 10 2nd rounders and 5 or 6 third rounders along with 2 or 3 really good '95/'96 born players. (see my example:post #902 on page 37 of this thread).

The problem is, not only do I think Spott can trade us into being a conference favorite, I don't think there's any way he'll trade the four guys mentioned above.

I see a first or second round exit (we'd play Guelph in the 1st round if the season ended today) and then the beginning a rebuild next year.


Last edited by EvenSteven: 12-05-2012 at 11:20 PM.
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12-07-2012, 11:09 PM
  #955
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Looking at the upcoming schedule with the current injuries on the roster and No Gibson, Murphy or Faksa, the Rangers will be lucky to win 3 of their next 10 games. Even when a healthy group returns, they will have a lot of ground to make up and my guess will be at best a 4th place finish, but more realistically 5th or 6th is where I think they will end up.

I'm on the sell side at this point regardless of what happens. Take a page out of the Hunters books and restock for a run in a couple of years!

I would target teams in the West as trade partners as well to weaken their future rosters. Call Plymouth, Call Guelph, Call Owen Sound and yes, call London!

Take away their future youth!

Just my opinion.

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12-10-2012, 10:10 AM
  #956
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Especially after last nights game, the longer we dont add to our roster I am starting to think being a seller won't be a bad idea like some other posters.

I know we are decimated by injuries but with that aside, we should still be getting 2 points against Ottawa this year. They took 4 points against us this year. These are the teams that we are suppose to be taking 4 points. And now we have Fixter at the helm to make things worse.

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12-10-2012, 10:57 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by BenchedGuy View Post
Especially after last nights game, the longer we dont add to our roster I am starting to think being a seller won't be a bad idea like some other posters.

I know we are decimated by injuries but with that aside, we should still be getting 2 points against Ottawa this year. They took 4 points against us this year. These are the teams that we are suppose to be taking 4 points. And now we have Fixter at the helm to make things worse.
I am moving more firmly into the seller camp. We are primed for it, with a few high-end key pieces that should bring a great return and a current roster that isn't good enough. And with no assets to move they need to re-stock the draft pick cupboard.

But don't count on it. An absentee GM until the deadline hits won't help at all.

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12-10-2012, 11:50 AM
  #958
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I am moving more firmly into the seller camp. We are primed for it, with a few high-end key pieces that should bring a great return and a current roster that isn't good enough. And with no assets to move they need to re-stock the draft pick cupboard.

But don't count on it. An absentee GM until the deadline hits won't help at all.
Very few high end players coming back next year.
Barren draft cupboard of high draft picks.
Present team under performing.


^ those three reasons are a major reason why a player sell-off and getting multiple draft picks back is badly needed!
If not, for the next 4 years we'll be watching a team that could be worse than the Otters have been the last few years!

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:29 PM
  #959
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I totally concur Ward. Kitchener currently has one 2nd round pick and one 3rd round pick until 2017.

They badly need to re-stock that cupboard and this is the year they can do it. The haul for Gibson, Puempel, Murphy and possibly Faksa, Rieder and Thomson would be huge for this team.

Spott put himself in this situation where his team isn't a championship contender yet and he has no assets to deal to become one. The only way he can upgrade is to trade Palazzese, Bailey, Llewellyn or Schmalz with his 2nd and 3rd. That would make this team a gong-show of terrible for several years after.

Being that buying isn't really a viable option, he has to sell. Without selling, it's the worst of both worlds: They will last a round or two these playoffs and still have nothing next year or the year after to get excited about. Standing pat or buying brings in the Kitchener version of the "fiscal cliff" on the horizon.

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12-10-2012, 02:28 PM
  #960
Ward Cornell
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Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
I totally concur Ward. Kitchener currently has one 2nd round pick and one 3rd round pick until 2017.

They badly need to re-stock that cupboard and this is the year they can do it. The haul for Gibson, Puempel, Murphy and possibly Faksa, Rieder and Thomson would be huge for this team.

Spott put himself in this situation where his team isn't a championship contender yet and he has no assets to deal to become one. The only way he can upgrade is to trade Palazzese, Bailey, Llewellyn or Schmalz with his 2nd and 3rd. That would make this team a gong-show of terrible for several years after.

Being that buying isn't really a viable option, he has to sell. Without selling, it's the worst of both worlds: They will last a round or two these playoffs and still have nothing next year or the year after to get excited about. Standing pat or buying brings in the Kitchener version of the "fiscal cliff" on the horizon.
IMHO...Spott hasn't changed with the times and is stuck on how to build a team from 10 years ago. You have some GMs (Hunter, Degrey and Kelly) on the cutting edge of "how to build a perennial contender" by willing to absorb a middling season but strong for the next 3 or 4 by hoarding draft picks then trade them when the time is appropriate. Spott seems like a drunken sailor on weekend leave the way he tosses away draft picks! But for him to blame the players isn't right.

Maybe the players are what they are but Spott oversells them to the fans.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:40 PM
  #961
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Again Ward, we're on exactly the same page.

The best GMs, like Hunter and Rychel recognize when they have a good team with a few stars, but not a championship team and they have the guts to sell high, gain a ton of picks and young players and gear up for a real run.

Fans are intelligent these days. I talk to legions of fans at the Aud and to a person, they're all fine with a year of struggles to build a winner. The fans have shown they'll support the kids and wait for them to blossom. What the fans have no patience for is boring, middling hockey.

Sadly, I think the "sell" idea is a pipe dream. For one, Spott has promised his vets he'd go for it. Two, he seems stuck on this idea we're a contender and just have to find ways to score. Three, he's away until almost the deadline, so he'll be delinquent in his GM duties I'm sure.

I expect he'll do what he always does - more or less stand pat, but add one or two decent pieces without changing any systems or approaches to the game. He'll throw resources at the problem and just hope and assume it'll work. And we'll be left holding the bag next year.

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12-10-2012, 03:30 PM
  #962
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Again Ward, we're on exactly the same page.

The best GMs, like Hunter and Rychel recognize when they have a good team with a few stars, but not a championship team and they have the guts to sell high, gain a ton of picks and young players and gear up for a real run.

Fans are intelligent these days. I talk to legions of fans at the Aud and to a person, they're all fine with a year of struggles to build a winner. The fans have shown they'll support the kids and wait for them to blossom. What the fans have no patience for is boring, middling hockey.

Sadly, I think the "sell" idea is a pipe dream. For one, Spott has promised his vets he'd go for it. Two, he seems stuck on this idea we're a contender and just have to find ways to score. Three, he's away until almost the deadline, so he'll be delinquent in his GM duties I'm sure.

I expect he'll do what he always does - more or less stand pat, but add one or two decent pieces without changing any systems or approaches to the game. He'll throw resources at the problem and just hope and assume it'll work. And we'll be left holding the bag next year.
Spotters problems have much to do with the fact that he's drafted guys that a few years in haven't stepped up to the plate. There are guys like Sterk (1 Goal on the year), Pederson with all that ice and opportunities with 4 goals on the year, Meighan 1 goal, Czinder 0 goals, Alberga 2 goals, etc. Get the picture? Yes, not all need to be goal scorers BUT you need some of them to step up. There is only one player with double digit goals in Puempel and that's it. You need 2 lines for sure that are getting goals on a regular basis and yes you sometimes get a player that may be having an "off year", but not a half dozen. That's just guys not panning out and that's where you have to pull the plug on some of them.

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12-10-2012, 03:55 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by JSavoire View Post
Spotters problems have much to do with the fact that he's drafted guys that a few years in haven't stepped up to the plate. There are guys like Sterk (1 Goal on the year), Pederson with all that ice and opportunities with 4 goals on the year, Meighan 1 goal, Czinder 0 goals, Alberga 2 goals, etc. Get the picture? Yes, not all need to be goal scorers BUT you need some of them to step up. There is only one player with double digit goals in Puempel and that's it. You need 2 lines for sure that are getting goals on a regular basis and yes you sometimes get a player that may be having an "off year", but not a half dozen. That's just guys not panning out and that's where you have to pull the plug on some of them.
You forgot Marcanuoni.....where he was ranked going into the draft, notwithstanding the injury issues most people expected at least elite level goalscoring out of him at this stage of his junior career.

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Old
12-10-2012, 04:22 PM
  #964
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The players are working hard, but they're not working smart. More often than not, there are three forwards behind the goal line and no one in front of the net. Pretty hard to score goals that way. Defensively, they're uninterested, lazy, or have no clue what to do. All of these issues point to coaching.

I don't know what changed Pederson, but he's been very good of late. Once healthy, I'd love to see a line with him, Bailey and Meighan -- when they were briefly together, they created scoring chances, held the opposition in their end of the ice and were hard to play against. We don't see that often this year.

Spott needs to decide, and NOW, whether to be a buyer or seller at the deadline. I'm on the sell side -- restock the cupboard by moving a couple of key non-returning players and build around the young guys.

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12-10-2012, 04:23 PM
  #965
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So with all the under-achieving players as you have pointed out - some of whom were ranked relatively highly by other teams as well at draft time - you have to ask yourself if it's the players or the coaches/system?

Typically when a player slumps it's the player. When a team slumps it's the coach/system.

I'm not trying to pin all the blame on Spott and Fixter, but I don't see anything change in terms of strategy, approach and tactics. How do they expect to fixt the scoring issues when you play the same guys and the same way night in, night out?

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12-10-2012, 10:25 PM
  #966
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Is there any OAs out there that the rangers could get that would make a impact on d

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12-11-2012, 12:17 AM
  #967
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You forgot Marcanuoni.....where he was ranked going into the draft, notwithstanding the injury issues most people expected at least elite level goalscoring out of him at this stage of his junior career.

Exactly!! He was called the best forward talent in the draft by Ranger brass. Posters around the OHL whined that we cooked another deal. By now, in his third year in the league, MM should be centering the #1 line, among the top 10 in OHL scoring, and been a candidate for the WJC camp.

Instead, he is Yves Bastien all over again, all flash and dash with no finish. He can't score, he has been healthy all year so that excuse goes out the window. He has seen time with good players and that hasn't helped. Actually, a player of his stature should be making others around him better. 4 goals in 27 games is embarassing.

I'm here to tell you that if he were traded tomorrow, he wouldn't be missed. That isn't the way to feel about a 1st round pick but, it is what it is. Spott should include him in a deal for veteran help, but probably won't because he won't get what he'd consider fair market value for the player MM is supposed to be.


We'll see what this team is made of between now and the new year. Depth wins you championships. In 2003, with Roy, Campbell, Kanko, and Eminger at the WJC, the Rangers only lost one game because our depth kept the ball rolling, led by Mike Richards.

Does anyone think this group can come close to the same performance with the top players away?

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12-11-2012, 09:21 AM
  #968
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In 2003, with Roy, Campbell, Kanko, and Eminger at the WJC, the Rangers only lost one game because our depth kept the ball rolling, led by Mike Richards.

Does anyone think this group can come close to the same performance with the top players away?
No. Because you forgot to mention that season's MVP: Pete DeBoer.

Replacing him with Spott is like replacing Richards with Marcantuoni. (Oh wait... we did that too.)

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12-11-2012, 10:44 AM
  #969
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Does anyone think this group can come close to the same performance with the top players away?
With our currently lineup, I dont even think we can play that way if everyone was healthy AND not gone to WJHC.

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12-11-2012, 01:00 PM
  #970
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Last year we had Defensive zone issues. This season we have Offensive production issues. The common link? Paul Fixter.....

Last year the Defense had a lot of injuries, which would be used as an excuse. This year the excuse up front has been the 8 game road trip and injuries, and now world juniors.

Its time for the excuses to end, and the coaches to be as accountable as they make the players.

Im in sell mode, they just arent getting it done, and with all the bodies gone right now, Im not comfortable trading the likes of Pedersen, Sterk, Gilbert for such a question mark. Im pretty certain Spott has the power to trade whom ever, but I have a feeling the BOD would lose their crap if he dealt away the likes of Murphy, Puempel, Gibson and Rieder.

If they try to add its a long shot still to win the West, let alone the OHL or Mem Cup, and the next SEVERAL years will be lackluster, because this team has no picks, and a horrible post Deboer track record in the 1st round of the draft, and few NCAA de-commits.

You trade Murphy, Puempel, Reider, Gibson, we haul in a boat load of 95's and 96's and early picks, retain Palazzese for starters duty remaining of the yead and next.

Defense is pretty much solid next year, and with ice time, these good young 95's and 95's will make this team a mid conference team or even higher immediately next year.

Just my two cents.

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12-11-2012, 01:24 PM
  #971
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I agree Oryx.

Besides the complete and total lack of a playmaker, the one thing that crossed my mind is that guy in the room who will hold his teammates accountable. I just don't see anyone to do it. Either the guy who might do that is too young, or he's too new to the team. Any of the guys who have been here a while aren't the type, from what I see.

There is no one to put the team on his back and to say "we're not going down this way, boys".

Deal the big boys, get a good return (there are enough buyers out there that this shouldn't be a challenge), and rebuild/reload. Mediocre just isn't good enough.

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12-11-2012, 01:29 PM
  #972
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I agree Oryx.

Besides the complete and total lack of a playmaker, the one thing that crossed my mind is that guy in the room who will hold his teammates accountable. I just don't see anyone to do it. Either the guy who might do that is too young, or he's too new to the team. Any of the guys who have been here a while aren't the type, from what I see.

There is no one to put the team on his back and to say "we're not going down this way, boys".

Deal the big boys, get a good return (there are enough buyers out there that this shouldn't be a challenge), and rebuild/reload. Mediocre just isn't good enough.
Doesn't Spott's history suggest he will simply stand pat? What is there to suggest that will change....

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12-11-2012, 02:13 PM
  #973
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I agree Oryx.

Besides the complete and total lack of a playmaker, the one thing that crossed my mind is that guy in the room who will hold his teammates accountable. I just don't see anyone to do it. Either the guy who might do that is too young, or he's too new to the team. Any of the guys who have been here a while aren't the type, from what I see.

There is no one to put the team on his back and to say "we're not going down this way, boys".

Deal the big boys, get a good return (there are enough buyers out there that this shouldn't be a challenge), and rebuild/reload. Mediocre just isn't good enough.
IMHO Spott isn't doing me any favours by standing pat or even trading some young kids for 2 month rental and 4 years of putrid hockey.
Even with the addition of a cpl stud players I still have major reservations on this team (players and Fixter) that Spott has assembled.
I guess having said that and since he's the man in charge......on Spott himself!

I just wish there was a way to get the fans voices heard by the Rangers.


Last edited by Ward Cornell: 12-11-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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12-11-2012, 02:31 PM
  #974
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Doesn't Spott's history suggest he will simply stand pat? What is there to suggest that will change....
He's also been known to overpay for average/mediocre players, and not get a good return on players of interest/need to other teams.

I'm still hopeful, but not as optimistic as I would be if it were Mark Hunter dealing Gibson/Puempel/Murphy.

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12-11-2012, 03:44 PM
  #975
Ward Cornell
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Is there any OAs out there that the rangers could get that would make a impact on d

Huh?....you have issues with Nick 'Spicoli' Czinder?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf5rIuJPTt0

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