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Old
12-10-2012, 02:06 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
If I'm going to take a minute and look at this impartially, which I try to do with most things in my life, I would say that a fair return for Luongo fits into this mold.

A player with top six playing time. A prospect, not necessarily a blue chip... Let me rephrase, not a blue chip. And a 1st round draft pick.


Non of this protected BS...a first round draft pick. It's starting to look like we're going to lose the season...so I understand if its a 2014. It's either a 13 or 14 pick. Not top five protected. Not top ten protected, not conditional that the leafs make the playoffs. You choose what year.

In my mind its Kulemin, Kadri and a 1st for Luongo.
And that's a reasonable offer I'd be pretty content with.

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12-10-2012, 02:09 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
5-6 years? What guarantee is there? Second, Leafs are no where near being a contender. Why blow our load for an aging player with a long-term contract?
What guarantee is there of anything? Crosby could retire from concussions next season, is it likely? Going with not.

Not saying you have to, but if you want him then you do. Be in or out, your choice.

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12-10-2012, 02:10 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Great logic, lets take a guy who has 5-6 years left of play, and compare him to a guy who has almost retired the last 3 years...

See I can play too.

Compare Lui to what you would pay for a 30 year old center who fits the criteria I stated.
yeah its weird that people think Luongo is done for, or only has 3 years left. This is a highly competitive and conditioned athlete, who relies on his size and position as much as reflexes. He should remain elite for 6 more years.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:11 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by sniper81 View Post
This doesn't make sense as it guts the leafs centre depth.
In all fairness I think everyone has agreed on the Bozak + Kadri + + framework.
(although I would be willing to swap in Connolly for Bozak if it meant a bit of an uograde on the +'s)

Personally I would want to try for Frattin + Finn, but Leafs fans were divided on it.

I dont have any interest in Colborne (he would be behind Kadri and Schroeder fighting for 1 roster spot. Also leaves Toronto with no youn center prospects.

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12-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
5-6 years? What guarantee is there? Second, Leafs are no where near being a contender. Why blow our load for an aging player with a long-term contract?
Actually when you look at the leafs on paper, its a pretty strong roster.
You have 8 top-6 forwards, 2 of them who were PPG last season.
MacA, Grabovski, Bozak should be locks for 50 ppints next year.
Kulemin/JVR could easily be 50 point guys and a healthy Tim Connolly produces.

On the blueline Phaneuf, Gardiner, Liles and Gunnarson is a better top-4 than most teams will ice.

The biggest deficiency on the team is easily goaltending which would more than make up for any small issues on this team.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:17 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
And that's a reasonable offer I'd be pretty content with.
I would be fine with that return.

We get 2 players who fill holes on our roster, as well as a strong prospect moving forward.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:23 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Actually when you look at the leafs on paper, its a pretty strong roster.
You have 8 top-6 forwards, 2 of them who were PPG last season.
MacA, Grabovski, Bozak should be locks for 50 ppints next year.
Kulemin/JVR could easily be 50 point guys and a healthy Tim Connolly produces.

On the blueline Phaneuf, Gardiner, Liles and Gunnarson is a better top-4 than most teams will ice.

The biggest deficiency on the team is easily goaltending which would more than make up for any small issues on this team.
Good points. But it would make sense to trade for a younger goalie but still proven #1. For example when Halak was traded for Lars Eller. Leafs should be looking to make a trade similar to that.

Also the trade value for goaltenders is a lot less than #1C or elite forwards. I see a lot of Canucks fans comparing Luongo's value to Nash or another #1C. It doesn't work that way

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12-10-2012, 02:25 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
In all fairness I think everyone has agreed on the Bozak + Kadri + + framework.
(although I would be willing to swap in Connolly for Bozak if it meant a bit of an uograde on the +'s)

Personally I would want to try for Frattin + Finn, but Leafs fans were divided on it.

I dont have any interest in Colborne (he would be behind Kadri and Schroeder fighting for 1 roster spot. Also leaves Toronto with no youn center prospects.
Uhh I really dont think "everybody" has agreed to that framework. If any deal sees Kadri and Bozak as the main pieces coming back for Luongo then Mike Gillis should be fired. That's a horrible framework for an elite goalie.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:26 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I would be fine with that return.

We get 2 players who fill holes on our roster, as well as a strong prospect moving forward.
Neither Kulemin or Kadri fill any holes on our roster. Why would we make that trade?

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12-10-2012, 02:27 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Uhh I really dont think "everybody" has agreed to that framework. If any deal sees Kadri and Bozak as the main pieces coming back for Luongo then Mike Gillis should be fired. That's a horrible framework for an elite goalie.
* Everyone but y2k seems to agree to the Bozak + Kadri ++ framework.

Better?

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12-10-2012, 02:29 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Good points. But it would make sense to trade for a younger goalie but still proven #1. For example when Halak was traded for Lars Eller. Leafs should be looking to make a trade similar to that.

Also the trade value for goaltenders is a lot less than #1C or elite forwards. I see a lot of Canucks fans comparing Luongo's value to Nash or another #1C. It doesn't work that way
Here are the two flaws in your thinking, first find a young goalie that is on the block. It just doesn't happen all that often. Second when was the last time a goalie as good as luongo get traded? It too just doesn't happen that often.

If you think he is an upgrade on what you have, try to get Bernier, that is the only one I can think of that would be available, maybe one of the Caps guys, but I doubt this year.

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12-10-2012, 02:30 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
* Everyone but y2k seems to agree to the Bozak + Kadri ++ framework.

Better?
I strongly disagree with that statement too. I don't think you'll find many Canuck fans happy with that framework.

Bozak would be stuck on our 3rd line, and it's not like he's even that good defensively to succeed there. Offensively I could see 25-30 points while playing with the linemates we have on that line.

Kadri is young and defensively irresponsible. He's the type of player AV hates. He wouldn't be successful here.

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12-10-2012, 02:32 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
* Everyone but y2k seems to agree to the Bozak + Kadri ++ framework.

Better?
While I agree with you, he raises a fair point, that imo I don't think either player really fills and upgrades what we need.

I would take the package, but not really be happy about it. Personally that is why I have pushed the futures packages. I don't think a piece TO is able to give up from their roster helps us.

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12-10-2012, 02:32 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Neither Kulemin or Kadri fill any holes on our roster. Why would we make that trade?
Kulemin is similar to Higgins, thus we can either run the AMEX line or see if Kulemin and Kesler jell. While Kadri is a young playmaker that would give better options for Hansen and Kulemin/Higgins. A first is a first.

It isn't a "awesome trade" but a reasonable one I'd say everyone could live with.

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12-10-2012, 02:33 PM
  #590
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Is this hf or r/**********? Why is Toronto being discussed as a real trade partner?

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12-10-2012, 02:37 PM
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Kulemin is similar to Higgins, thus we can either run the AMEX line or see if Kulemin and Kesler jell. While Kadri is a young playmaker that would give better options for Hansen and Kulemin/Higgins. A first is a first.

It isn't a "awesome trade" but a reasonable one I'd say everyone could live with.
Kulemin is more on par with Raymond. I also don't see what makes you think Kulemin would fit with Kesler. Another left handed shot on that like probably isn't good (Booth being the other).

Kadri just doesn't fit at all. If Grabner was in AV's doghouse, Kadri will be too.

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12-10-2012, 02:38 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I strongly disagree with that statement too. I don't think you'll find many Canuck fans happy with that framework.

Bozak would be stuck on our 3rd line, and it's not like he's even that good defensively to succeed there. Offensively I could see 25-30 points while playing with the linemates we have on that line.

Kadri is young and defensively irresponsible. He's the type of player AV hates. He wouldn't be successful here.
im no expert on Bozak, but IMO if a center with some offensive talent can find chemistry with Hansen, that could make for a very high scoring 3rd line. As long as Raymond isnt there to remove the chances. But of course AV wouldnt stand for any offence from the bottom 6, so I dont think Bozak is an option.

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12-10-2012, 02:38 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Fantastic logic. Selanne is a future HHOF inductee. Maybe you should trade Kassian, Schroeder and 1st for him.
If he was 9 years younger, I absolutely would.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:41 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Neither Kulemin or Kadri fill any holes on our roster. Why would we make that trade?
Kulemin and Bozak fill holes. Kadri takes over as #1 prospect

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12-10-2012, 02:42 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by sunnyvale420 View Post
Is this hf or r/**********? Why is Toronto being discussed as a real trade partner?
Well...other than being the team with the biggest need...and being one of the very few teams who could take on that ridiculous contract...no reason i guess.

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12-10-2012, 02:42 PM
  #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
If he was 9 years younger, I absolutely would.
Marian Hossa is Luongo's age, and has Luongo's contract. I would certainly trade Luongo for him straight up. I would also trade Kassian, Jensen, Schroeder and a 1 for Hossa.

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12-10-2012, 02:43 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
* Everyone but y2k seems to agree to the Bozak + Kadri ++ framework.

Better?
Count me as one who agrees with Y2k...the only reason I even went along with the idea today on the canucks board, is because IM BORED.

Edit. except I don't agree with what he'd give up for Hossa.

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12-10-2012, 02:43 PM
  #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Kulemin and Bozak fill holes. Kadri takes over as #1 prospect
What holes do they fill?

How would Kadri be our top prospect? I wouldn't even have him in our top 5 as he would be behind Jensen, Kassian, Tanev, Lack and Schroeder.

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12-10-2012, 02:44 PM
  #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Kulemin is similar to Higgins, thus we can either run the AMEX line or see if Kulemin and Kesler jell. While Kadri is a young playmaker that would give better options for Hansen and Kulemin/Higgins. A first is a first.

It isn't a "awesome trade" but a reasonable one I'd say everyone could live with.
Everyone? I doubt that. Doesn't look good for the Leafs. Kulemin is a big upgrade on Bozak, and you're including a non-protected 1st. Good luck with that.

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12-10-2012, 02:45 PM
  #600
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Well...other than being the team with the biggest need...and being one of the very few teams who could take on that ridiculous contract...no reason i guess.
C'mon liferleafer...you can't lower your posting standards by using 'ridiculous' or 'albatross' now can you?

You are smarter than that.

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