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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:11 PM
  #476
Riche16
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Are you forgetting about the glowing puck?

Seriously though, what innovative ideas are the NFL, NBA and MLB producing? Or are they just more successful because they are more popular?
1st down line, virtual strikezone, expanding NFL games to multiple nights per week, The Combine & increased coverage of the draft which goes a long with MLB Winter Meetings & increased Spring Training coverage (so the sport never has to be too far out of the mind of the fan)...

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12-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
It would be great to see hockey again, but I've got a negative feeling about a 1/2 season. Team performances are going to be a crapshoot and success will be rewarded with a big, fat asterisk, just like the Devils' '95 Cup.
Meh, playoffs always have a crapshoot element anyways.

Here's what the standings looked like on January 1st of last season. I'd argue that 48 games is plenty to separate the good teams from the bad.

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12-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
1st down line, virtual strikezone, expanding NFL games to multiple nights per week, The Combine & increased coverage of the draft which goes a long with MLB Winter Meetings & increased Spring Training coverage (so the sport never has to be too far out of the mind of the fan)...
I actually like the first down line because they always had it since I've been watching, but I despise the virtual strike zone. Some umpires give more room to the pitchers and some don't. Even though the box is supposed to be the same, every umpire really uses their own (or tries to, because they are just terrible anyway).

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12-10-2012, 02:19 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
1st down line, virtual strikezone, expanding NFL games to multiple nights per week, The Combine & increased coverage of the draft which goes a long with MLB Winter Meetings & increased Spring Training coverage (so the sport never has to be too far out of the mind of the fan)...
A lot of that is just additional coverage. I'm sure the NHL would love to sell additional programming if there was a market for it.

And I don't think the first down line and the K-zone are responsible for the health of the NFL and MLB.

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12-10-2012, 02:20 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
I actually like the first down line because they always had it since I've been watching, but I despise the virtual strike zone. Some umpires give more room to the pitchers and some don't. Even though the box is supposed to be the same, every umpire really uses their own (or tries to, because they are just terrible anyway).
Yeah, I think it still helps to measure the consistency of the umpires anyways. I also think it's good for the accountability of the umpires as well.

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12-10-2012, 02:25 PM
  #481
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I think step one towards a solution starts between the owners. Taking from the players won't solve anything long term.

Watching the owners now, they screw each other over at every step. No amnesty buyouts? Cap floor recalculation kicks in at $80m instead of immediately? AHL contracts count against the cap? Huge resistance to increased revenue sharing. They are more concerned about what advantage the other guy has... they would rather cancel a season than fix it. Luxury tax would never go over. Too much money going to the bottom and too much talent to the top.

I think the biggest hurdle is getting the 30 owners agreeing. Trying to get a minimum 23 happy teams is impossible. They can't even compromise. Amnesty buyouts... just the availability, not a mandatory action.

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12-10-2012, 02:32 PM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
It would be great to see hockey again, but I've got a negative feeling about a 1/2 season. Team performances are going to be a crapshoot and success will be rewarded with a big, fat asterisk, just like the Devils' '95 Cup.
only people that view anything wrong with the devils cup in 95 are rangers and flyers fans. ask any devils fan if they care...

it might be different if that was the only year they won and you could claim it was a fluke, but then they added 2 more in the next 8 years.

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12-10-2012, 02:35 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
A lot of that is just additional coverage. I'm sure the NHL would love to sell additional programming if there was a market for it.

And I don't think the first down line and the K-zone are responsible for the health of the NFL and MLB.
It's all part and parcel of the over-all health of both. You asked for innovations, those are some recent ones. They don't all have to be about the game itself (the first two I mentioned) but the increase in coverage means that the attention span of the fan is being taken into account. There's no more "off-season" in the traditional sense. The reason is to eat into the attention given to other sports and therefore other revenue streams.

When hockey bows-out in this climate with that many opportunistic rivals waiting with open arms, you have to question the overall sanity of the NHL leadership. This isn't to say that they should take a bad CBA deal, but I would think that they'd realize the huge difference in the overall landscape between '04-05 and today.

Fans aren't going to forgive as easily (since this is twice in 8 years... laughable) but they don't miss it as much, and certainly can find other ways to spend their money and occupy their minds.

"Out of sight out of mind" has never made more sense than in the BIG business of professional sports today.

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12-10-2012, 02:38 PM
  #484
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If we are counting coverage then we have 24/7, oil change, that st.louis blues draft.

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12-10-2012, 02:39 PM
  #485
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did Bettman or the owners make a "drop dead" date yet?.. nothing at all will happen until that IF they get a deal done.

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12-10-2012, 02:40 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
did Bettman or the owners make a "drop dead" date yet?.. nothing at all will happen until that IF they get a deal done.
No he hasn't. Didn't sound like he would.

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12-10-2012, 02:40 PM
  #487
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Yeah I don't get the "its pointless to play a 50 game or so season'. You still have to win 16 games in the playoffs, and all the teams are on the same playing field regardless.

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12-10-2012, 02:55 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Yeah I don't get the "its pointless to play a 50 game or so season'. You still have to win 16 games in the playoffs, and all the teams are on the same playing field regardless.
My comment has more to do with off the ice stuff, not on the ice.

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12-10-2012, 02:57 PM
  #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Meh, playoffs always have a crapshoot element anyways.

Here's what the standings looked like on January 1st of last season. I'd argue that 48 games is plenty to separate the good teams from the bad.
Kings miss the playoffs under a scenario where only the first 40-ish games count. I think that highlights the fact that it isn't the same as the ups and downs of a full season.

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12-10-2012, 03:02 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Kings miss the playoffs under a scenario where only the first 40-ish games count. I think that highlights the fact that it isn't the same as the ups and downs of a full season.
As I said back then:

Quote:
The Kings flirted with making/missing the postseason all year. They finished 8th. The fact that they would have missed the playoffs doesn't phase me one bit.

They caught an incredible hot streak when the playoffs started. That's the randomness of the playoffs.
If the season were 120 games the 16 playoff teams would be different than under an 82 game season too. I don't there's anything special about the number 82 in this regard.

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12-10-2012, 03:20 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
If the season were 120 games the 16 playoff teams would be different than under an 82 game season too. I don't there's anything special about the number 82 in this regard.
Agreed. Every team has to play the same number of games. NFL teams only play 16, yet that is considered enough to separate the good teams from the bad. 48 games is fine. I'd much rather have had 82 than 48, but I would also much rather have 48 than 0.


Last edited by GAGLine: 12-10-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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12-10-2012, 03:29 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Are you forgetting about the glowing puck?

Seriously though, what innovative ideas are the NFL, NBA and MLB producing? Or are they just more successful because they are more popular?
Being they are naturally more popular games, theres less need to innovate on the product - but they do it anyway. Thursday night football for NFL, the playoff structure for baseball -- NBA hasnt done much, but they're suffering in a similar way to the NHL.

My point though, is what is on the horizon for the NHL when they settle this thing in a month and have a 48 game season? Pat eachother on the back, half-hearted thank you to the fans, and we'll see you again in a few years?

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12-10-2012, 03:38 PM
  #493
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48 to 50 is BS. If it were ok then do it every year. I wish they would just cancel it already. For all you that say no big deal so I guess when Cally got hurt in game 80 or whatever game it was 2 years ago blocking Chara's shot that did not matter.

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12-10-2012, 03:55 PM
  #494
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48 to 50 is BS. If it were ok then do it every year. I wish they would just cancel it already. For all you that say no big deal so I guess when Cally got hurt in game 80 or whatever game it was 2 years ago blocking Chara's shot that did not matter.
I don't understand what you're getting at with that.

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12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
48 to 50 is BS. If it were ok then do it every year. I wish they would just cancel it already. For all you that say no big deal so I guess when Cally got hurt in game 80 or whatever game it was 2 years ago blocking Chara's shot that did not matter.
No one is arguing a 48 game season will mirror an 82 game season exactly. But the purpose of the regular season is to separate the good teams from the bad ones, which can be reasonably done in a 48 game season. If you can get past the rigid idea that a regular season has 82 games, there's little issue left.

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12-10-2012, 04:25 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
48 to 50 is BS. If it were ok then do it every year. I wish they would just cancel it already. For all you that say no big deal so I guess when Cally got hurt in game 80 or whatever game it was 2 years ago blocking Chara's shot that did not matter.
What is your argument? That it being game 80 had anything to do with Callahan breaking his foot?

I accept an argument that another cancelled season might kickstart some long-term change. I just happen to believe that nothing really will change, so I continue to root for a season this year.

Any sort of on-ice related wishes for canceling this season are just silly.

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12-10-2012, 05:01 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
No one is arguing a 48 game season will mirror an 82 game season exactly. But the purpose of the regular season is to separate the good teams from the bad ones, which can be reasonably done in a 48 game season. If you can get past the rigid idea that a regular season has 82 games, there's little issue left.
Someone posted the standings last year after 48 games on the main board. Every team that made the playoffs last year was in the top 8 of each conference with the exception of Phoenix I believe so that helps your point.

I'm no fan of 48-54 games but I'll take what I can get right now. Ideally I would have loved a 66 game schedule or something similar to that had they reached a deal back in November. It's not 82 games but it hopefully would have eliminated out of conference games which I hate with a passion and still would have been a big enough sample size to cut out the good teams from the bad teams. Plus, it would have saved money for STH's. Obviously they're saving even more now.

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12-10-2012, 05:44 PM
  #498
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so sick of people like you just placing the blame on all of his shoulders. its not that simple. all parties involved are responsible. bettman, hardline owners, moderate owners, the fehr's, hardline players, the 4th liners. they are all responsible. **** all of them is more like it
Never said they ALL weren't responsible...I never said that all of the blame is on Gary Bettmans shoulders. How the hell did you get that out of what I said? All I said was **** Gary Bettman....and I meant it. I think hes a lousy commissioner and this process has proved that he is even more so. His rant last Thursday night really got me heated, hence my post.

Read the words for what they are.

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12-10-2012, 05:51 PM
  #499
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The Leafs were actually tied for 8th place with the Devils around the 48 game mark.

Leafs finished in like 12th or 13th. Think the Caps were in 9th at that time, and they made the playoffs.

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12-10-2012, 06:02 PM
  #500
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No one is arguing a 48 game season will mirror an 82 game season exactly. But the purpose of the regular season is to separate the good teams from the bad ones, which can be reasonably done in a 48 game season. If you can get past the rigid idea that a regular season has 82 games, there's little issue left.
So if that is the case play 50 games every year!

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