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NHL Lockout XXV: New car caviar four star daydream, think I'll buy me a hockey team

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:57 PM
  #676
Gustave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
A 28 game season is a joke and a slap in the face to fans and season ticket holders.
You're right. However, no one's suggesting such a season. Chris Johnson just wanted to jab Bettman a little and threw this garbage to his face.

Let's stay real here, 48+ or bust.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:58 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Leman Russ View Post
We can all keep dreaming that tomorrow is going to be "that day".
But let's be realistic.
The owners will die on a hill before Fehr admits defeat to his cult.
The NHL needs to issue a drop dead date - maybe Dec 21. That should be enough time to get teams together for a Jan 3 - 5 start of season.

If no CBA in place by Dec 21, cancel the season.

I'm so tired of this.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:58 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
My proposal... completely ignore division for one year.

2 home, 2 away against everybody in your Conference. 14 x 4 = 56

14 in Jan.
14 in Feb.
14 in Mar.
14 in Apr.

Rank them 1-15, top 8 make it...

Playoffs: home-home-OFF-away-away-OFF-home-OFF-away-OFF-home

+

OFF day between rounds

=

12 days for each round x 4 = 48 days for playoffs. Playoffs done by mid-June.
You do realize that the teams play in buildings that have other events so you cant say play 2 back to back then travel and then play back to back again. I know thats how they always did it in the 80's in the first round but this is a different area many teams in the 80's didnt share buildings with the NBA etc

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:59 PM
  #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
The NHL needs to issue a drop dead date - maybe Dec 21. That should be enough time to get teams together for a Jan 3 - 5 start of season.

If no CBA in place by Dec 21, cancel the season.

I'm so tired of this.
I'd make the drop dead date December 25th.

It would put pressure on the players, and it would be funnier.

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Old
12-10-2012, 02:59 PM
  #680
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No one get your hopes up. This season will be cancelled.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:01 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I'd make the drop dead date December 25th.

It would put pressure on the players, and it would be funnier.
the humor angle is good

"what did you get for Christmas? - NO HOCKEY CONFIRMED!"

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:03 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
No one get your hopes up. This season will be cancelled.
At this point, I'd put the odds of having a season at about 95%. The issues are relatively minor compared to the last lost season. The 5% just reflects the egos of the two idiots on either side of the negotiations.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:03 PM
  #683
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no owners and no players would be good for the process at this point. let gary, bill, don, and steve (or better yet...just bill and steve) hash things out on their own.

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12-10-2012, 03:05 PM
  #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
The NHL needs to issue a drop dead date - maybe Dec 21. That should be enough time to get teams together for a Jan 3 - 5 start of season.

If no CBA in place by Dec 21, cancel the season.

I'm so tired of this.
I agree wholeheartedly.

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12-10-2012, 03:05 PM
  #685
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I still can't fathom how these buffoons after 7 years of a missed season, still can't compromise on how to split up millions.

This league can not afford a missed season. 4th most popular professional league, yet on it's way to possibly losing it's 2nd season in even under a decade. I don't get it.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:06 PM
  #686
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Early on in this process, someone had stated that the NBA labour issues ended just after the point when everyone thought the process had collapsed for good.

I've approached the NHL lockout with this in mind. Until the season is cancelled, there's still hope.

I think on Thursday, Don made his last push after seeing he was still 4 inches away from the cliff's edge. Wringing the last few drops out of the wet towel, so to speak.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:07 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by Moe Mantha View Post
Early on in this process, someone had stated that the NBA labour issues ended just after the point when everyone thought the process had collapsed for good.

I've approached the NHL lockout with this in mind. Until the season is cancelled, there's still hope.

I think on Thursday, Don made his last push after seeing he was still 4 inches away from the cliff's edge. Wringing the last few drops out of the wet towel, so to speak.
The NBA did not have Donald "DON'T SIGN, I CAN STILL GET YOU MORE" Fehr

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:07 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The players have made huge strides in these negotiations... I don't know how anyone could look at what is happening and not acknowledge it.
Probably because they're losing more and more every day that goes by.

It also depends on how you look at it. Is going from the owners' opening offer of 43% to 50% great strides? Sure. Is going from last CBA's 57% to 50% great strides? No. Since the players seem to look at things in comparison to the last CBA, no great strides there for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kfan22 View Post
You do realize that the teams play in buildings that have other events so you cant say play 2 back to back then travel and then play back to back again. I know thats how they always did it in the 80's in the first round but this is a different area many teams in the 80's didnt share buildings with the NBA etc
If you're talking about playoffs, all events scheduled during standard playoff time frames in our arena are subject to cancellation/rescheduling if the building is needed for a playoff game. It's something the event promoters have to agree to. I know in 2004 we moved out a college graduation, and a couple of years ago it was an ice show IIRC. They do their best to work around other events, but if there's no way around it, the other event is moved.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:09 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
I still can't fathom how these buffoons after 7 years of a missed season, still can't compromise on how to split up millions.

This league can not afford a missed season. 4th most popular professional league, yet on it's way to possibly losing it's 2nd season in even under a decade. I don't get it.
I think the splitting of the revenue is already agreed upon... That is why there wont be a lost season. Both sides are just wanting to get that last bit of win out of the CBA in terms of contract structures.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:14 PM
  #690
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If everything goes to hell and we get some bizarre 28 game season, I think it would actually be far better than expected. The season would basically start with the post-deadline playoff push. Everyone would be playing hard because every team would have a shot at playoffs. Every single game would be important.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:15 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Probably because they're losing more and more every day that goes by.

It also depends on how you look at it. Is going from the owners' opening offer of 43% to 50% great strides? Sure. Is going from last CBA's 57% to 50% great strides? No. Since the players seem to look at things in comparison to the last CBA, no great strides there for them.
The NHL started at 43%, the NHLPA has got them to the 50% everyone expected with a massive amount of transition money (that nobody thought they would get) and they've already gained some contract rights back. And they are still negotiating.

Anyone that thinks the players would have been better off signing any of the previous offers than holding out is not thinking clearly imo, the players have done much better than almost anyone thought they could... and they still stand to gain more. They aren't gaining on the last CBA, but they are gaining huge on anything the owners offered. There is no way they would have been better off signing any of those earlier offers.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:17 PM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The NHL started at 43%, the NHLPA has got them to the 50% everyone expected with a massive amount of transition money (that nobody thought they would get) and they've already gained some contract rights back. And they are still negotiating.

Anyone that thinks the players would have been better off signing any of the previous offers than holding out is not thinking clearly imo, the players have done much better than almost anyone thought they could... and they still stand to gain more. The aren't gaining on the last CBA, but they are gaining huge on anything the owners offered.
I agree they've gained a bunch since the initial offer. But Fehr's playing with fire here, at some point the owners are going to walk away and we'll lose another whole season.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:18 PM
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The NHL started at 43%, the NHLPA has got them to the 50% everyone expected with a massive amount of transition money (that nobody thought they would get) and they've already gained some contract rights back. And they are still negotiating.

Anyone that thinks the players would have been better off signing any of the previous offers than holding out is not thinking clearly imo, the players have done much better than almost anyone thought they could... and they still stand to gain more. They aren't gaining on the last CBA, but they are gaining huge on anything the owners offered. There is no way they would have been better off signing any of those earlier offers.
Yeah, but none of these gains are greater than the money they've already lost. It's a simple EV calculation.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:20 PM
  #694
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Yeah, but none of these gains are greater than the money they've already lost. It's a simple EV calculation.
I disagree but until the final deal is signed there isn't even a way to evaluate it... I don't know what basis you can have for making such a claim without knowing what the final CBA looks like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
I agree they've gained a bunch since the initial offer. But Fehr's playing with fire here, at some point the owners are going to walk away and we'll lose another whole season.
If the league was anywhere close to that point they wouldn't keep coming back with more. They're bluffing and the PA keeps calling them on it, there is no way we lose another season.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:22 PM
  #695
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The problem with an early drop dead date is its more likely that the players will think you are bluffing and will call what they think is a bluff. You then have to choose either to actually cancel the season even though there would be a chance of salvaging some of it, something that would lose off fans to no end and risk future revenues even more, of if you don't cancel it, you lose some bargaining position.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:23 PM
  #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The NHL started at 43%, the NHLPA has got them to the 50% everyone expected with a massive amount of transition money (that nobody thought they would get) and they've already gained some contract rights back. And they are still negotiating.

Anyone that thinks the players would have been better off signing any of the previous offers than holding out is not thinking clearly imo, the players have done much better than almost anyone thought they could... and they still stand to gain more. They aren't gaining on the last CBA, but they are gaining huge on anything the owners offered. There is no way they would have been better off signing any of those earlier offers.
Well, that's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say when I said it depended on whether you look at it from the perspective of the offers or the perspective of the last CBA - they've definitely come a ways from the owners' first offer. Of course, everyone knew that first offer was far out of the realm of anything the owners expected to actually get.

So perhaps the problem is that the players don't look at it that way. Perhaps they're still concentrating on revenge/"winning" based on the last CBA. If they could change that outlook to focusing on this CBA and the compromises they've gotten in their favor, maybe they could get a deal done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
If the league was anywhere close to that point they wouldn't keep coming back with more. They're bluffing and the PA keeps calling them on it, there is no way we lose another season.
Sure there is, if they call the supposed bluff too often. They came very close last week, IMO. If they keep it up the season will be lost.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:23 PM
  #697
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Wondering if introducing franchise player tags, one per team, could help reach an agreement?

A player who has a franchise player tag can sign ANY deal he pleases. Any lenght, any money. It doesn't count on the cap. BUT, teams aren't obligated to put the tag on anyone.

A provision could be made that the team and player can mutually agree on removing the tag. If this happens, the player's contract defaults to the maximum values described in the CBA. (Say, 5 years, x% of the cap) and this salary is under the cap.

Players with the tag have a limited no-trade clause in that they must agree before being traded.

If players that have the tag are traded, their contracts also defaults to the maximum values of the CBA, unless the team applies their franchise tag to the player. If it is available, the team HAS to apply the tag on the player they acquire.

This would take care of the 5-Year Maximum contract lenght issue. The players who could hope to have these deals still could.

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12-10-2012, 03:26 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
No one get your hopes up. This season will be cancelled.
Agreed.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:26 PM
  #699
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Marty Turco the latest to slap every fan in the face.

Quote:
Marty Turco ‏@mturco35
#lockout pic.twitter.com/yOqcYhyW
https://twitter.com/mturco35/status/278245260528865281

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12-10-2012, 03:27 PM
  #700
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I disagree but until the final deal is signed there isn't even a way to evaluate it, I don't know what basis you can have for making such a claim without knowing what they final CBA looks like.
Unless something greatly changes in the way the CBA is shaping up, we can already say the players won't make up lost money. To be fair, I guess something crazy could happen like the owners offering 1 billion in make whole but I just don't see it happening. I suppose I'll leave some small room for a black swan event like that happening.

Even what the players were asking for in make whole doesn't cover what the players have lost by now (asking for $389 million and have now sacrificed $558 million according to the sportsnet clock).

Fehr needs to start thinking about a deal because here's what'll happen:

-in the end the owners win present negotiations
-in the end, the players will end up making out like bandits and we'll all laugh about how the owners "won" the lockout

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