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Best goalies since last lockout

View Poll Results: Best goalie since lockout
Lundqvist 148 64.07%
Kiprusoff 47 20.35%
Ward 25 10.82%
Vokoun 18 7.79%
Luongo 67 29.00%
Backstrom 11 4.76%
Miller 46 19.91%
Rinne 39 16.88%
Quick 24 10.39%
Price 23 9.96%
Howard 6 2.60%
Brodeur 58 25.11%
Thomas 74 32.03%
Fleury 11 4.76%
Bryzgalov 4 1.73%
Halak 6 2.60%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 231. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-10-2012, 12:17 PM
  #26
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Lundqvist, and Brodeur. Brodeur was still at the top of the league until 2 years ago. He wasn't anywhere near as bad as the numbers suggested in 2010/2011, as the whole team was non existent for the first 41 games. He was mediocre last year, but way below average for the first half, and top 5 in the league in a few categories from all star break on.

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Old
12-10-2012, 12:17 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
There was basically 7 seasons since the lockout, Thomas sucked for 3 of those seasons and was good to dominant for the other 4. He should at least be considered, but it's hard to call him the best since he wasn't consistantly good for that whole stretch. The same goes for Brodeur: he really has only had two dominant seasons since the last lock out, the rest he's varied from good to average to bad.

Lundqvist, despite not winning any trophys, has had 4 relatively dominant seasons. Even in the other 3 he was over a 0.910 S% with under a 2.50 GAA. Luongo is the other prime candidate, he has the best post lockout stats of any goalie. Again, he has nothing but a Jennings Trophy to show for it, but he's had Vezna nominations, a Hart nominations, and 4 relatively dominant seasons out of the 7.

It really depends on how you look at it. Thomas has the most hardware with his pair of Veznas, his Jennings, and his Conn Smythe trophy. Yet, he hasn't has as good of stats as Luongo or Lundqvist since the last lockout. I'd say it's a 3 horse race, I'm not even sure why guys like Miller or Kiprusoff are getting votes here.
Thomas didn't suck for any of his seasons. The Bruins may have sucked, but Thomas was always above average at least.
He didn't get due credit before he won the Vezina and now it seems some people want to say that 2 Vezina's, a Conn Smyth, and a Stanley Cup aren't good enough to be among the best goaltenders since the lockout.

Way to go. That is quite biased if you ask me. What other goaltender has done what he has since the lockout?

Noboby, that's who.

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Old
12-10-2012, 12:53 PM
  #28
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1. Lundqvist
2. Luongo
3. Brodeur
4. Kiprusoff
5. Miller
6. Thomas
7. Ward
8. Backstrom
9. Vokoun
10. Fleury
HM. Nabakov (not listed)

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Thomas didn't suck for any of his seasons. The Bruins may have sucked, but Thomas was always above average at least.
He didn't get due credit before he won the Vezina and now it seems some people want to say that 2 Vezina's, a Conn Smyth, and a Stanley Cup aren't good enough to be among the best goaltenders since the lockout.

Way to go. That is quite biased if you ask me. What other goaltender has done what he has since the lockout?

Noboby, that's who.
Which is why I said it should be a 3 horse race: Thomas, Lundqvist, and Luongo. You could make a case for either of them, really. Thomas has the hardware, Luongo has the best stats, and Lundqvist has been the most consistant. You could also make a case against any of them just as easily. Lundqvist hasn't won anything, Thomas hasn't been consistant, and Luongo has faltered under pressure.

And Thomas did suck, at least statistically, for a number of seasons. The bad team excuse doesn't work here as all 3 of these goalies played behind some pretty crappy defenses at times and still managed impressive numbers. Thomas spent half of one of his seasons in the AHL, and his NHL numbers that year were far from spectacular. The season after he followed it up with a GAA over 3 and a S% around 0.900. Then, in 09/10 he last his starter job to Rask half way through the season. So it's not as if that was a dominant season for him either.

My point is, there is a knock against all of these guys. Thomas certainly has had the most prominent peak, but calling him the best goalie from lock out to lock out is about more than peak.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Which is why I said it should be a 3 horse race: Thomas, Lundqvist, and Luongo. You could make a case for either of them, really. Thomas has the hardware, Luongo has the best stats, and Lundqvist has been the most consistant. You could also make a case against any of them just as easily. Lundqvist hasn't won anything, Thomas hasn't been consistant, and Luongo has faltered under pressure.

And Thomas did suck, at least statistically, for a number of seasons. The bad team excuse doesn't work here as all 3 of these goalies played behind some pretty crappy defenses at times and still managed impressive numbers. Thomas spent half of one of his seasons in the AHL, and his NHL numbers that year were far from spectacular. The season after he followed it up with a GAA over 3 and a S% around 0.900. Then, in 09/10 he last his starter job to Rask half way through the season. So it's not as if that was a dominant season for him either.

My point is, there is a knock against all of these guys. Thomas certainly has had the most prominent peak, but calling him the best goalie from lock out to lock out is about more than peak.
I would like you to explain to me, and I have watched every game Thomas has played inthe NHL with the exception of maybe 3 games, how he has been inconsistent. The man got consistently better every season except for the seaon where he needed hip surgery and last season, that is pretty consistent.

It really looks to me that a lot of people have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to Thomas except for those who have watched him his entire career.

If people want to say Lundqvist or Luongo were better that is one thing, to leave Thomas off of your list like some people have done in this thread just shows you have some kind of bias against Thomas.(not you in particular, the people who listed 10 goaltenders without listing Thomas)

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12-10-2012, 03:12 PM
  #31
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Lundqvist or Thomas.


I gave it to Lundqvist. His numbers are just better.


Last edited by IceDaddy: 12-10-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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12-10-2012, 03:44 PM
  #32
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Hank, Brodeur, Kipper, Luongo, and Thomas are in their own tier IMO. The only other goalies with enough sustained success to push into that group are Ward and Miller.

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12-10-2012, 04:46 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I would like you to explain to me, and I have watched every game Thomas has played inthe NHL with the exception of maybe 3 games, how he has been inconsistent. The man got consistently better every season except for the seaon where he needed hip surgery and last season, that is pretty consistent.

It really looks to me that a lot of people have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to Thomas except for those who have watched him his entire career.

If people want to say Lundqvist or Luongo were better that is one thing, to leave Thomas off of your list like some people have done in this thread just shows you have some kind of bias against Thomas.(not you in particular, the people who listed 10 goaltenders without listing Thomas)
Look, Thomas is my favorite goalie, and that's really saying something being as I'm a Canucks fan. I'm not bias against him whatsoever, and generally I think he's accomplished some amazing things. I haven't seen as many Bruins games over the years as you no doubt have, but they are likely my 2nd most watched team as I have a lot of Boston channels as I'm a Patriots fan.

That being said, goalies are often judged based on statistics. Thomas had 3 years where those statistics were quite bad. Did he have excuses for that? Certainly. But if we're judging how good a player was over a certain time frame you need to examine the entire time frame as a whole, not just the peak. And while Thomas had some extroidinary peaks, his lows were pretty low for an elite goalie:

2005/2006:
0.917 S% (7th in NHL)
2.77 GAA (23rd in NHL)

2006/2007:
0.905 S% (30th in NHL)
3.13 GAA (41st in NHL)

2009/2010:
0.915 S% (16th in NHL)
2.56 GAA (18th in NHL)


Last edited by Luck 6: 12-10-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
12-10-2012, 05:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
Lundqvist or Thomas.


I gave it to Lundqvist. His numbers are just better.
So so you know...

Luongo vs. Lundqvist
05/06: 0.914 S% < 0.922 S%, 2.97 GAA < 2.24 GAA
06/07: 0.921 S% > 0.917 S%, 2.28 GAA > 2.34 GAA
07/08: 0.917 S% > 0.912 S%, 2.38 GAA < 2.23 GAA
08/09: 0.920 S% > 0.916 S%, 2.34 GAA > 2.43 GAA
09/10: 0.913 S% < 0.921 S%, 2.57 GAA < 2.38 GAA
10/11: 0.928 S% > 0.923 S%, 2.11 GAA > 2.28 GAA
11/12: 0.919 S% < 0.929 S%, 2.41 GAA < 1.97 GAA

Statistically, Luongo has Lundqvist beat in the S% department which is often the more individual goalie stat. Not saying Luongo is necessarily better, just supplying some facts

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:06 PM
  #35
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Luongo/Lundqvist/Thomas/Brodeur/Vokoun are the top-5.

I voted Kiprusoff as well, not sure why.

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12-10-2012, 05:33 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Look, Thomas is my favorite goalie, and that's really saying something being as I'm a Canucks fan. I'm not bias against him whatsoever, and generally I think he's accomplished some amazing things. I haven't seen as many Bruins games over the years as you no doubt have, but they are likely my 2nd most watched team as I have a lot of Boston channels as I'm a Patriots fan.

That being said, goalies are often judged based on statistics. Thomas had 3 years where those statistics were quite bad. Did he have excuses for that? Certainly. But if we're judging how good a player was over a certain time frame you need to examine the entire time frame as a whole, not just the peak. And while Thomas had some extroidinary peaks, his lows were pretty low for an elite goalie:

2005/2006:
0.917 S% (7th in NHL)
2.77 GAA (23rd in NHL)

2006/2007:
0.905 S% (30th in NHL)
3.13 GAA (41st in NHL)

2009/2010:
0.915 S% (16th in NHL)
2.56 GAA (18th in NHL)
I have absolutely no problem if you think Lundqvist, Luongo, Brodeur were better than Thomas, I just disagree that Thomas sucked in any of his years. He had to play for a couple of very bad Bruins teams and he was still good. His stats aren't as good as they could have been because of how bad the team was and he was getting consistently better each year but he never sucked as you put it. You can say his stats sucked or the team sucked but Thomas was good, I swear I am telling you the truth

A lot of what I wrote wasn't really directed at you, it was directed at the people who left Thomas off of the top 10 goaltenders since the lockout, and that is just absurd.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:37 PM
  #37
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Brodeur has to be top 3 in this poll. He was great from the lockout until 2010. Veznias, record breaking seasons, he was great.

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12-10-2012, 05:38 PM
  #38
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Vokoun is and is going to continue to be criminally underrated.

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12-10-2012, 05:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
1. Lundqvist - most consistent goalie since the lockout. He's been a top 10 goalie every year.
2. Thomas - doesn't have the consistency, but he did have 2 dominant seasons where he was the clear-cut best goalie in the league.
3. Brodeur - was great until 2010 with 2 Vezinas, then started to slow down and show his age, although he still had a great playoff run in 2012
4. Luongo - very consistent regular season goalie, would have had a Vezina in 2007 if Brodeur hadn't also had the best season of his career. Also had a great playoffs in 2007. His post-2007 playoff play has been up and down though.
5. Miller - one great season plus a few other good ones. Also great at the Olympics.
6. Kiprusoff - Vezina in 2006. Although he's still good, hasn't reached that level of play since.
7. Vokoun - underrated due to being stuck on a non-playoff team. However, his numbers were always good, and he has played well for the Czech national team at WCs and Olympics (which is probably the most meaningful hockey he's played since the lockout).
8. Ward - Cup and a Smythe in 2006, and fairly good despite being on a bad team since then. I'm ranking him here because he has one less year as a starter than the others on this list (since it took him until the playoffs in 2006 to claim the starting job from Gerber for good).
9. Fleury - has shown flashes of brilliance, but he's also stunk it up quite a bit in the '10 and '12 playoffs. And unlike Luongo, he doesn't have the regular season consistency to make up for it.
10. Nabokov - he was a pretty good goalie in San Jose, despite his playoff disappointments. He was also decent for a bad Islanders team after he came back from the KHL.
I wrote out a top 7 with stats that was almost identical to yours (just swap Miller and Kipper and Thomas and Hank), and then I realized that I had the same list more or less to you.

1. Thomas - 374GP, .922SV%, 2.47GAA, 2 Vezinas, Conn Smythe
2. Lundqvist - 468GP, ..920SV%, 2.27GAA, Vezina
3. Brodeur - 451GP, .914SV%, 2.33GAA, 2 Vezinas
4. Luongo - 461GP, .919SV%, 2.45GAA
5. Kiprusoff - 514GP, .914SV%, 2.48GAA, Vezina
6. Miller - 442GP, .916SV%, 2.55GAA, Vezina
7. Vokoun - 401GP, .921SV, 2.56GAA

These are clearly the top 7 IMO, but it's pretty close across the board. The number of games that Thomas played isn't a whole hell of a lot less like people seem to be suggesting, what puts him over is the Conn Smythe. He has guaranteed his spot in the Hockey Hall of Fame in this time span, he had an entire Hall of Fame career between the two lockouts, it doesn't get any better than that.

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12-11-2012, 03:46 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I wrote out a top 7 with stats that was almost identical to yours (just swap Miller and Kipper and Thomas and Hank), and then I realized that I had the same list more or less to you.

1. Thomas - 374GP, .922SV%, 2.47GAA, 2 Vezinas, Conn Smythe
2. Lundqvist - 468GP, ..920SV%, 2.27GAA, Vezina
3. Brodeur - 451GP, .914SV%, 2.33GAA, 2 Vezinas
4. Luongo - 461GP, .919SV%, 2.45GAA
5. Kiprusoff - 514GP, .914SV%, 2.48GAA, Vezina
6. Miller - 442GP, .916SV%, 2.55GAA, Vezina
7. Vokoun - 401GP, .921SV, 2.56GAA

These are clearly the top 7 IMO, but it's pretty close across the board. The number of games that Thomas played isn't a whole hell of a lot less like people seem to be suggesting, what puts him over is the Conn Smythe. He has guaranteed his spot in the Hockey Hall of Fame in this time span, he had an entire Hall of Fame career between the two lockouts, it doesn't get any better than that.
How did Vokoun end up 7th when his play was clearly superior to a number of goalies ahead of him?

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Old
12-11-2012, 08:45 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I have absolutely no problem if you think Lundqvist, Luongo, Brodeur were better than Thomas, I just disagree that Thomas sucked in any of his years. He had to play for a couple of very bad Bruins teams and he was still good. His stats aren't as good as they could have been because of how bad the team was and he was getting consistently better each year but he never sucked as you put it. You can say his stats sucked or the team sucked but Thomas was good, I swear I am telling you the truth

A lot of what I wrote wasn't really directed at you, it was directed at the people who left Thomas off of the top 10 goaltenders since the lockout, and that is just absurd.
Understood. In my books I'd put Thomas 3rd behind only Luongo and Lundqvist, and just before Brodeur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NjDevsRR View Post
Brodeur has to be top 3 in this poll. He was great from the lockout until 2010. Veznias, record breaking seasons, he was great.
I'd argue he wasn't very good at all coming out of the lock out. And if Lundqvist and Luongo are the top 2, which they should be, Thomas has also had 2 x Veznas and record breaking seasons in that span. Why should Brodeur be ahead of him?

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12-11-2012, 10:18 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
Vokoun is and is going to continue to be criminally underrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
How did Vokoun end up 7th when his play was clearly superior to a number of goalies ahead of him?
His play wasn't superior his numbers were. His number look great because Florida is very liberal with what constitutes a save, so his S% is inflated. Vokoun has ONE playoff win post lockout! When Vokoun starts playing well in important games, then maybe he can be higher than the 7th best.

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12-11-2012, 10:37 AM
  #43
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Stats of goalies leading the poll since 05-06

Thomas:
.921 sv pct
2.48 GAA
31 SO
53 games/season

Lundqvist:
.920 sv pct
2.26 GAA
43 SO
66 games/season

Brodeur:
.913 sv pct
2.34 GAA
44 SO
64 games/season

Luongo:
.918 sv pct
2.43 GAA
37 SO
65 games/season

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12-11-2012, 12:46 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Stansfield View Post
His play wasn't superior his numbers were. His number look great because Florida is very liberal with what constitutes a save, so his S% is inflated.
Vokoun faced more shots/game away than at home in three out of the four seasons he played in Florida. Hard to prove that it was Florida scorers inflating his stats if the rest of the league seemingly did the same.

Quote:
Vokoun has ONE playoff win post lockout! When Vokoun starts playing well in important games, then maybe he can be higher than the 7th best.
Don't see how you can blame Vokoun for drawing terrible teams (and an injury in this most recent year). And Vokoun has played extremely well in "important games" in international play.

If one evaluates goalies based on their actual play, Vokoun absolutely deserves to be mentioned amongst the very best goalies since the lockout.

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12-11-2012, 01:00 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SupremefartMachine View Post
Stats of goalies leading the poll since 05-06

Thomas:
.921 sv pct
2.48 GAA
31 SO
53 games/season

Lundqvist:
.920 sv pct
2.26 GAA
43 SO
66 games/season

Brodeur:
.913 sv pct
2.34 GAA
44 SO
64 games/season

Luongo:
.918 sv pct
2.43 GAA
37 SO
65 games/season
Since this covers the entire body of work the ranking would be:

1. Lundqvist
2. Thomas
3. Brodeur
4. Luongo

A very special group of goaltenders. It's a shame that Brodeur's play has dropped off in the past two seasons.

Interesting note is that the only goaltender who is still considered to be at the top of their game is Lundqvist.

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12-11-2012, 01:14 PM
  #46
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Brodeur's play hasn't dropped off as much as you think. In 10/11 the first 41 games the whole team was bad. Hasek in his prime wouldn't have reached a 900 save percentage for that half season on that team. They couldn't even play fundamental defense. It's not that the defensemen sucked, there was no defense being played.

Last year he wasn't quite as bad as he looked early in the year, but poor rebound control led to less than average numbers. In the second half all the way till the playoffs ended he was top 5 in the league in many categories. When he started playing more games he got a lot better. If the PK hadn't broke down in game 6 against LA his save percentage in the playoffs would have been 922 as opposed to 917. Even if we still lost the game. His rebound control is definitely not what it used to be, and that's what I see as the biggest flaw in his game right now. Maybe more soft goals than he used to, but his rebound control is particularly bad.

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12-11-2012, 01:16 PM
  #47
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Brodeur's play hasn't dropped off as much as you think. In 10/11 the first 41 games the whole team was bad. Hasek in his prime wouldn't have reached a 900 save percentage for that half season on that team. They couldn't even play fundamental defense.

Last year he wasn't quite as bad as he looked early in the year, but poor rebound control led to less than average numbers. In the second half all the way till the playoffs ended he was top 5 in the league in many categories. When he started playing more games he got a lot better. If the PK hadn't broke down in game 6 against LA his save percentage in the playoffs would have been 922 as opposed to 917. Even if we still lost the game. His rebound control is definitely not what it used to be, and that's what I see as the biggest flaw in his game right now. Maybe more soft goals than he used to, but his rebound control is particularly bad.

I agree. The biggest difference is the soft goals. The problem Brodeur is that his bar was so high that when he begins to falter it looks so glarinly abnormal.

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12-11-2012, 01:26 PM
  #48
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I agree. The biggest difference is the soft goals. The problem Brodeur is that his bar was so high that when he begins to falter it looks so glarinly abnormal.
Devils fans have even given him a hard time in his younger years. If you saw the 01 SCF, and much of those playoffs he really wasn't that good that year. He gave up a lot of point shots in that series to Foote, Blake, and Bourque that were unscreened, and undeflected. The long season, and Cup run the year before probably contributed to that.

He's always given up soft goals because of his style of his play. He was more prone to give up what would be a simple save for a butterfly goalie, but could also stop goals that butterfly goalies had no chance on. He was fantastic in the playoffs after the Panthers series. Other than his shutout in game 4, and the double OT win in game 7 he wasn't that special that series. He stole us games 4, and 5 in the SCF too to avoid us getting swept. He did cost himself a shutout in game 4 vs the Rangers by giving up a point shot to Fedontenko with 5 minutes left in the game too!

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Old
12-11-2012, 11:02 PM
  #49
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His play wasn't superior his numbers were. His number look great because Florida is very liberal with what constitutes a save, so his S% is inflated. Vokoun has ONE playoff win post lockout! When Vokoun starts playing well in important games, then maybe he can be higher than the 7th best.
Well, it's not like he even had a chance to get many playoff wins. He simply was stuck on one of the worst teams in the league for a few years, and when he finally signed with a good team he got injured before the playoffs.

Like I said earlier, the only "important games" he's really played since 2005 are in international play. He has played 27 games for the Czech Republic in 2005, with a record of 20-7, and 7-1 when facing elimination (and he only gave up one goal in the loss).

I did put Vokoun behind Kiprusoff due to Kiprusoff's 2005-06 season, but it could just as easily have been the other way.

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12-11-2012, 11:07 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremefartMachine View Post
Stats of goalies leading the poll since 05-06

Thomas:
.921 sv pct
2.48 GAA
31 SO
53 games/season

Lundqvist:
.920 sv pct
2.26 GAA
43 SO
66 games/season

Brodeur:
.913 sv pct
2.34 GAA
44 SO
64 games/season

Luongo:
.918 sv pct
2.43 GAA
37 SO
65 games/season
Thomas' playoff play far outclasses all of these goalies; it really isn't even close. I think that should earn a lot of consideration.

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