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Off-Season Madness the 9th: Tom Cheek Memorial Edition

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Old
12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
  #726
topched
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
I decided to look at players that were used as relievers and then converted/reconverted back to a starter and the most valuable are (in no specific order)

Sale
Wilson
Morrow
Ogando
McCarthy
Samardzija
Wainwright
Medlen

Teams obviously realize that while they are good as relievers, they could get so much more value if they start. Injuries are always a risk, but they might as well milk all that value by starting them.
Pretty interesting, although I guess it does make sense because almost all relievers were starters at some point in their career.

My point I guess is that I don't think we'll ever see another Rivera or Hoffman for a long long time. They were put in the pen in their early 20's and given the closers role for the duration of their careers despite dominating.

It seems like the Feliz's and Chapman's of the day now are being converted, and you're seeing alot more "save by committee"(s) or guys who start as closers in their 30's after they've been in the bullpen for a while.

I doubt we ever see anyone approach 500 saves again.

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Old
12-10-2012, 04:11 PM
  #727
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There's that Kimbrel kid. Small, low stamina, pretty much stuck in the closers role.

I hear he's pretty good too.

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Old
12-10-2012, 04:22 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
There's that Kimbrel kid. Small, low stamina, pretty much stuck in the closers role.

I hear he's pretty good too.
This is true, nasty stuff that guy. His frame is what has probably quashed any urge for them to try him in the rotation.

I can only hope that Stroman turns into Kimbrel some day. That would be insane.

EDIT: LOL just looking up Kimbrel's minor league stats.

SALL: 16 games, 0.9 ERA, 17 K/9
Carolina League: 19games, 5.47 ERA, 15.5 K/9

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:06 PM
  #729
Ohio Jones
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That *******! Don't they know who we are now!
Hehe. Seriously though, Grilli is pretty much assured of the set-up role with the Pirates; on Toronto he'd have had a lot more competition for meaningful innings.

Good signing, though, and at a nice discount - good for Pittsburgh (who could use some good news).

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:17 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale
Grilli gets two-years, $6.75 million from #Pirates, after turning down bigger deal from #BlueJays

Looks like Jays still have some money left over to spend.
If the above report is true and jays offered more money that does lead me to believe we(ahem) have another 10Mil to spend. I'm not the biggest fan of the sport but do have general knowledge of how all sports are operated. I think some of that is going to go to Oliver and some of it will be left for trade deadline(quite possibly having more money available with whats remaining). I would start the season with what we have and go from there.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:24 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...arreno_mcdade/

From that move the Jays lost McDade on waivers, but were able to assign both McCoy and Carreno off the 40-man

In other news, Buster Olney is apparently saying that the Indians have signed Mark Reynolds. Perhaps this puts them either out of or at least in the background of the Kevin Youkilis derby, possibly meaning the Yankees are in top spot. Which isn't a big deal anyway because Youk isn't what he once was offensively, and he's awful defensively. he's a bench guy at best right now.

EDIT: and Jason Grilli is apparently going to stay in Pittsburgh too. He might've been another nice piece for the Jays pen, but it's still a resounding "meh". We've got options.

EDIT 2: Links

Reynolds to Cle - http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201..._for_one_year/

Grilli in Pit - http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201..._with_pirates/
Hey Nem I posted this last night about Reynolds but it was late enough that I don't think anyone really picked up on it. The article essentially said the Indians are likely to send their 1b to 3rd and Reynolds will play first taking them out of the Youk debate. Today I think it was said the Dodgers may now make an offer for his services.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:26 PM
  #732
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@ leafsdude. I believe Soboliewski was picked up in the rule 5 draft so he's not an option for us next year in AAA. Going back to your post a page back.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:28 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale
Grilli gets two-years, $6.75 million from #Pirates, after turning down bigger deal from #BlueJays

Looks like Jays still have some money left over to spend.
I do like seeing that they made a real serious offer to free agents. He must just really like Pittsburgh. You can't fault loyalty

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:34 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
I do like seeing that they made a real serious offer to free agents. He must just really like Pittsburgh. You can't fault loyalty
Carlos could be back on a 1 year contract. Doesn't hurt if he wants the 8 mill and he's been reliable for the team out of the pen and as a starter.

Can't see a downside in that decision.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:50 PM
  #735
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This is his second TJ though. I can't find a list of pitchers who had to have 2 TJ surgeries, but to the best of my recollection it's a short list and not exactly tending toward those guys being top flight starters when they got back from surgery #2.


Darren Dreifort
Brian Wilson
Joakim Soria
Jason Isringhausen (3 surgeries)
Doug Brocail
Al Reyes
Joey Devine
Chris Capuano
Shawn Hill
Victor Zambrano


There's probably few more. Definitely a short list.


Joakim Soria and Brian Wilson are just returning from their 2nd surgies. I guess they are somewhat comparable to Drabek.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:51 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
Carlos could be back on a 1 year contract. Doesn't hurt if he wants the 8 mill and he's been reliable for the team out of the pen and as a starter.

Can't see a downside in that decision.
I just can't really see them throwing 8 million at him even on a one year deal.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:56 PM
  #737
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The Crazy part is we could have 3-4 quality young arms ready by July (best case scenario)

Drew Hutchison
Marcus Stroman
Kyle Drabek
Sean Nolin

Kind of sad that I didnt even include Deck McGuire.

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Old
12-10-2012, 05:59 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
If i'm not mistaken Stroman and the Jays both said the plan is to keep him in the 'pen. He was in the pen right up until the failed that test.

I personally don't think they should bother with him as a starter... get him into a relief role and groom him.

Would be interested to know how many pitchers his size are starters in the league today.
The jays seem to like to have guys start as it gives them more opportunities to work on pitches.

I thought all comments last year were strictly related to last year though.

I have a feeling he'll be a starter for now.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:03 PM
  #739
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Also worth remembering, the Jays will try to put as good a team as possible together in Buffalo to impress ownership

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:08 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
The Crazy part is we could have 3-4 quality young arms ready by July (best case scenario)

Drew Hutchison
Marcus Stroman
Kyle Drabek
Sean Nolin

Kind of sad that I didnt even include Deck McGuire.
No.

Huch had surgury in August. Won't be back at all next year.
Drabek while possible, I'd guess is unlikely given it's his 2nd TJ
Stroman will miss up until mid may, so even if they have him in the pen, I think the soonest we see him is september.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:17 PM
  #741
weems
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Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
No.

Huch had surgury in August. Won't be back at all next year.
Drabek while possible, I'd guess is unlikely given it's his 2nd TJ
Stroman will miss up until mid may, so even if they have him in the pen, I think the soonest we see him is september.
AA was on air like a week ago and said they could get both Drabek and Hutch after the allstar break if everything goes well.

Maybe it was a slip by him but thats what he said.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:28 PM
  #742
Nasty Nazem
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
AA was on air like a week ago and said they could get both Drabek and Hutch after the allstar break if everything goes well.

Maybe it was a slip by him but thats what he said.
That's when they could be healthy to start throwing but they need a lot of rehab after that (at least a month) so maybe you are looking at them to potentially contribute to the Jays in August/September.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:31 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
AA was on air like a week ago and said they could get both Drabek and Hutch after the allstar break if everything goes well.

Maybe it was a slip by him but thats what he said.
Yea, I remember hearing that as well. I hope what he said is correct, Jays starting rotation / bullpen would be deep barring any injuries.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:32 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
That's when they could be healthy to start throwing but they need a lot of rehab after that (at least a month) so maybe you are looking at them to potentially contribute to the Jays in August/September.
Ok because I was confused by the Hutchison wont be back at all next year comment.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:39 PM
  #745
jcollins
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
AA was on air like a week ago and said they could get both Drabek and Hutch after the allstar break if everything goes well.

Maybe it was a slip by him but thats what he said.
Drabek maybe. Huch I'd be absolutely shocked. Not that that means we'd see him in the bigs.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:57 PM
  #746
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Ok because I was confused by the Hutchison wont be back at all next year comment.
Im still confident we won't see him next year. Given his youth, they'll be very cautious with him.

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:05 PM
  #747
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gose
mckoy
cooper
---
sierra
d'arnaud

who's the AAA DH to bat cleanup?

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12-10-2012, 07:07 PM
  #748
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Drabek maybe. Huch I'd be absolutely shocked. Not that that means we'd see him in the bigs.
Yea, Hutch is highly unlikely to be back this season.. Drabek had surgery shortly after his injury, while Hutch waited a while.. I think it was more then a month or two before he decided to go under the knife.. Theoretically he won't be ready until a month or two after Drabek, but of course everyone heals differently.


I think a lot of people are forgetting McGowan as the wild card.. Obviously it'd be foolish to get your hopes up, but imagine this is finally the year he can stay healthy.. If I'm not mistaken Alex said he'd be ready for spring...

Fingers crossed, because he'd be a bonus if he can start in the pen and eventually move into the 5 spot as the season rolls on.

I'm far from hopeful, but definitely thought of the possibility.

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:25 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
That's when they could be healthy to start throwing but they need a lot of rehab after that (at least a month) so maybe you are looking at them to potentially contribute to the Jays in August/September.
Drabek is already throwing. Someone posted the tweet a page back

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Old
12-10-2012, 07:38 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
gose
mckoy
cooper
---
sierra
d'arnaud

who's the AAA DH to bat cleanup?
I'm assuming d'Arnaud will be batting in the three or four hole if he starts the season in AAA.

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