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Old
12-10-2012, 07:06 AM
  #26
InjuredChoker
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post

I haven't seen him play but from what I've read he's got a very good hockey sense.
Agreed.

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If anybody's expecting Smith to be our savior defensively they're going to be sadly disappointed.
I'm not expecting that. But I'm expecting him NOT to be a liability, a guy who can hold he's own.

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Don't really know that much about him. For defense I pay most attention to Smith/Ouellet/Sproul/Marchenko.
He's coming along nicely. Those four are all better at the moment though.

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12-10-2012, 08:02 AM
  #27
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To a team other than the Wings, probably whatever your average #3/4 d-man is worth.

To the wings: To be a major piece in a deal to land a #2 d-man.

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Old
12-10-2012, 12:43 PM
  #28
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Just out of curiosity, who are players 'Y' and 'Z' in your opinion? Last week I had a Red Wings fan tell me the only player Wings fans would want to trade Smith for is Weber.
For what it's worth it depends on the context they were using. There's a lot of guys I'd trade Smith for, most of them being highly skilled two-way defenders (Guys like Pietrangelo, OEL, McDonagh come to mind) but I also understand that those players aren't up for trade and if they were, it would take a lot more than just Smith to acquire them.

On the other hand, there was some rumor that Detroit offered something along the lines of three out of the four of Franzen/Filppula/Smith/Nyquist for Rick Nash.

The fact that Columbus didn't accept that is evidence enough to me just as to why their team is as bad as it is, but the fact that Holland put that on the table has me questioning what the hell he was thinking.

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12-10-2012, 12:57 PM
  #29
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Is it getting to be make or break time for him? I know he hasn't really been given the opportunity in Detroit yet, but nothing about him totally jumps out at me. But then again, I'm not a Wings fan so I really haven't payed any attention to him.
What do you mean? If there was a season right now he'd be playing top 4 minutes and on the #1 PP with Kronwall. He's an elite skater with elite offensive skills and likes to play a physical game

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12-10-2012, 01:04 PM
  #30
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What do you mean? If there was a season right now he'd be playing top 4 minutes and on the #1 PP with Kronwall. He's an elite skater with elite offensive skills and likes to play a physical game
White would probably be Kronwall's PP pairing for the simple fact that Babs likes a righty on the PP.

Plus our next best offensive D-man would be Quincey, and I can't see him QBing a PP line.

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12-10-2012, 01:35 PM
  #31
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What do you mean? If there was a season right now he'd be playing top 4 minutes and on the #1 PP with Kronwall. He's an elite skater with elite offensive skills and likes to play a physical game
Like I said I haven't payed any attention to him, but that seems to be pretty big expectations for a guy who isn't exactly tearing up the AHL right now. I'm just kinda wondering if he'll become more of a Tom Gilbert than this elite guy I've been hearing about for years.

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Old
12-10-2012, 01:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Like I said I haven't payed any attention to him, but that seems to be pretty big expectations for a guy who isn't exactly tearing up the AHL right now. I'm just kinda wondering if he'll become more of a Tom Gilbert than this elite guy I've been hearing about for years.
Not saying this is the best excuse, but he knows he has a spot on the team already. He's probably lost quite a bit of motivation.

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12-10-2012, 02:15 PM
  #33
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Like I said I haven't payed any attention to him, but that seems to be pretty big expectations for a guy who isn't exactly tearing up the AHL right now. I'm just kinda wondering if he'll become more of a Tom Gilbert than this elite guy I've been hearing about for years.
He's bored out there. When he was in the NHL last year he was putting up .5 PPF

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12-10-2012, 02:21 PM
  #34
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He's bored out there. When he was in the NHL last year he was putting up .5 PPF
So he had 7 points in the nhl and now hes bored?

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12-10-2012, 02:22 PM
  #35
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So he had 7 points in the nhl and now hes bored?
The point is he's ready for the nhl. He has nothing to gain from playing in the AHL anymore.

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12-10-2012, 02:55 PM
  #36
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So he had 7 points in the nhl and now hes bored?
He's bored in the AHL because he knows he should be in the NHL

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12-10-2012, 03:01 PM
  #37
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He's bored in the AHL because he knows he should be in the NHL
*IF* that is his attitude im going to start questioning his character. That attitude would keep him from being a top player at the NHL or even the AHL. Top players bring it every night, regardless of the league they are playing in.

You dont see Brunner playing "bored" in the NLA, do you? What about D. Hamilton? He isn't playing "bored" in the CHL.

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:11 PM
  #38
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It's he's third season in the AHL and he should have been NHL on two of those - meaning last year. Babcock wanted him on the team. Holland didn't maybe because

1. Detroit has been years and years keeping kids in AHL, in some cases maybe even too much. Holland is a former goalie, may have something to do with it.

2. Maybe Holland didn't think Lidström would retire yet; it would have been very valuable for Smith to learn from one of the best. Holland also likes to keep and keep players, we already had 6 D last year pretty much locked. Smith should/could have beaten Kindl but.. whatever Holland hates trades.

3. This way we get to keep that second contract small. Smith is RFA after this season and isn't going to get big money; good for Detroit obviously. Maybe he'll do like O'Reilly though, lol.


Some nights Smith has looked like he didn't give a crap. Hard to blame him though. I'd be pissed too.

But still when NHL starts he's still rookie, our D is on paper worst it has been for like 2 decades. Smith is bound to make rookie mistakes that he should/could have made last year. But with a weaker team (on paper) those mistakes will cost more.

So here we come Seth Jones, here we come .

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Old
12-10-2012, 03:51 PM
  #39
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Not saying this is the best excuse, but he knows he has a spot on the team already. He's probably lost quite a bit of motivation.
If that is the case that would worry me. He's played in the AHL three seasons after three in NCAA, if he had nothing left to learn he would have secured a spot on the Wings by now.

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Old
12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
  #40
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If that is the case that would worry me. He's played in the AHL three seasons after three in NCAA, if he had nothing left to learn he would have secured a spot on the Wings by now.
Exactly. However, I do not believe that boredom or motivation are issues. I think, this is more of a case, of posters looking for justification for his lower than expecteed pt productuion.

By all accounts of those who get a chance to watch GRG games, Smith is playing well. Production isnt as high as we hoped; but as long as he keeps playing his game and working hard, the points will come.

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Old
12-10-2012, 04:12 PM
  #41
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If that is the case that would worry me. He's played in the AHL three seasons after three in NCAA, if he had nothing left to learn he would have secured a spot on the Wings by now.
He's ready to make the team. He should've been on it last year. Why wasn't he? I would love to know that as well.

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Old
12-10-2012, 04:17 PM
  #42
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Here is what we do know on Smith. The Wings attempted to have talks on JayBo, Yandle, and Nash. In all of those Wings management according to people around the team did not make him available. You ask what his value is, well he was protected in attempts to acquire three guys that have suited up in all-star games. Now you can debate that a future HHOF GM has lost it or a lot of the brain trust that is also HHOF guys are out of touch. But it is clear his value to the Wings is still at a very high place and virtually untouchable. The only time we ever heard his name dangled by the writers around the Wings was in a potential sign and trade for Weber.

I understand why a lot of people around here have become tired of the love affair Wings fans have with Smith. But on a pure value basis it is important to look at how Wings management and coaches talk about him. He has done nothing but increase value in their eyes and the slow development path was their choice. They never say that he is disappointing in it, just that they have a plan and he is following it and they are all very pleased with him. He is basically a core player even if for a lot of people he has never done anything to earn it, that is how the Wings look at him.

One more thing on projecting his place in the NHL. For years we saw him as the #1 PP guy. That still might happen but there are very few that don't think Sproul is that guy. They could team together, but at some point soon that will be the race and my feeling is Kronwall gets to keep one of the first PP spots and Sproul wins out because of his huge right handed shot. So maybe some of Smith's projected numbers need to be brought back in. Which makes all the progress he has made on D that much more important. I would say his biggest step forward this year has been on the pk, he needs to do a better job of either staying out of shooting lanes or actually making the block, but he has come a very long way in that department. He will be a pk guy in my opinion to those saying they don't think he can do it. He is very good at getting guys away from the front of the net and breaking corner scrambles on the pk.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 12-10-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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Old
12-10-2012, 04:29 PM
  #43
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Smith is such a beast and in a vacuum I'd give up alot, but I don't think I'd give up anything significant to get him on the Rangers considering defense is already such a strength.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:18 PM
  #44
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He is severely overrated. He is a nice prospect, but people make him out to be some top-pairing defenseman with an instant impact.

A lot of people are going to be disappointed. I wouldn't trade for him at all, not because I wouldn't want him as a prospect, but because the Detroit hype train has made him cost way more than he is worth.

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12-10-2012, 06:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
He is severely overrated. He is a nice prospect, but people make him out to be some top-pairing defenseman with an instant impact.

A lot of people are going to be disappointed. I wouldn't trade for him at all, not because I wouldn't want him as a prospect, but because the Detroit hype train has made him cost way more than he is worth.
You can call it a small sample size all you want, but I'd say it's a pretty instant impact when the Wings PPG amongst defenders goes like this:

8. Ericsson: .16
7. Kindl: .24
6. Stuart: .26
5. Quincey: .36
4. White: .42
3. Kronwall: .44
2. Lidstrom: .49
1. Smith: .50

But yeah, no instant impact at all. And this is probably coming from people who praise Yandle and Karlsson as defenders sent straight from the hockey gods...

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12-10-2012, 06:36 PM
  #46
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You can call it a small sample size all you want, but I'd say it's a pretty instant impact when the Wings PPG amongst defenders goes like this:

8. Ericsson: .16
7. Kindl: .24
6. Stuart: .26
5. Quincey: .36
4. White: .42
3. Kronwall: .44
2. Lidstrom: .49
1. Smith: .50

But yeah, no instant impact at all. And this is probably coming from people who praise Yandle and Karlsson as defenders sent straight from the hockey gods...
He played 14 games.

It is not just small sample size. It is statistically irrelevant.

The guy is going to be 24 soon. He is tied for 25th for defensive scoring in the AHL. And he is basically all about offense.


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Old
12-10-2012, 06:43 PM
  #47
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He played 7 games.
You can't even get the stats right.

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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
It is not just small sample size. It is statistically irrelevant.
Not when it backs up his projection, lol.

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The guy is going to be 24 soon. He is tied for 25th for defensive scoring in the AHL. And he is basically all about offense.
In the last 10 years, how many Red Wings have played a full season before they turned 21?

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12-10-2012, 06:45 PM
  #48
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You can't even get the stats right.
I mistyped and corrected it. Those were his points. 7 points. 1 goal. He played 14 games.

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Not when it backs up his projection, lol.
Yes, even then, it is statistically irrelevant.

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In the last 10 years, how many Red Wings have played a full season before they turned 21?
I don't know. I'm sure you do. But that's because they don't deserve to, not because Detroit has some magical key.

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12-10-2012, 06:49 PM
  #49
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I think Smith will be better than JKsilverstick seems to be implying, but I also agree with his point on the sample size. 14 games is not just a small sample size. It's hardly a sample size at all. A small sample size is something along the lines of 25-30 games in a row, or something closer to half a season of experience.

I don't think Smith will ever be confused with a #1 defenseman, but I see a lot of offensive potential there, and an edge to his game. If he can improve defensively, I think he could end up as a top pairing guy, but is also more likely to end up as a top 4 type of guy who will be used heavily in offensive situations.

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Old
12-10-2012, 06:49 PM
  #50
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I mistyped and corrected it. Those were his points. 7 points. 1 goal. He played 14 games.
Meaning a .50 PPG average.

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Yes, even then, it is statistically irrelevant.
I suppose it might be if it suits your agenda of denial.

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I don't know. I'm sure you do. But that's because they don't deserve to, not because Detroit has some magical key.
I believe Fischer was he last one. But yeah, you're right, it's because they don't deserve it, not because they should be able to crack the roster over Lidstrom/Kronwall/Rafalski/Stuart/Etc.

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